22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Truther]

Yep

 

[Truther]

Moses employs `a thousand' in Deuteronomy 7:9 saying, "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

1 Chronicles 16:13-17 also states, "O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A thousand and ten thousand are used together in Psalm 91, saying, "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee" (vv 5-7).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A similar contrast between these two numbers or ideas is seen in Deuteronomy 32:30, where a rhetorical question is asked, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?"

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Joshua affirms, on the same vein, in chapter 23, "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you" (v 10).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Isaiah the prophet similarly declares in Isaiah 30:17, "one thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one."

This incidentally is the only passage in Scripture that makes mention of the actual number "one thousand," albeit, the term is used to impress a spiritual truth.

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Psalm 84:9-10 says, "Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 saying, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 succinctly says, "one man among a thousand have I found."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, "If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The concordance guy.

 

[WPM]

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour((I LIKE IT) with the beast.

Now, fill in the blanks....



2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a ......,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the ,......... should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ ..........

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the ....... were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a .........

7 And when the ............ are expired,

The sum total of your engagement is avoidance, infantile conduct and ad hominem. How about addressing all the avoided Scripture and arguments above that refutes Premil? No. To do so would force you to interpret Rev 20 with the wealth of other Scripture.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years (I LIKE IT),

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years (I LIKE IT) should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years (I LIKE IT).

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years (I LIKE IT) were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years (I LIKE IT).

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years (I LIKE IT) are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 

[WPM]

The concordance guy.

Simple questions that you refuse to answer because they demolish your reasoning.

 

[Truther]

The sum total of your engagement is avoidance, infantile conduct and ad hominem. How about addressing all the avoided Scripture and arguments above that refutes Premil? No. To do so would force you to interpret Rev 20 with the wealth of other Scripture.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years (I LIKE IT),

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years (I LIKE IT) should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years (I LIKE IT).

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years (I LIKE IT) were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years (I LIKE IT).

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years (I LIKE IT) are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Great post.

Since you like it like I do, don't try to tell folks you don't like it by saying it doesn't mean what it appears to mean.

 

[Truther]

Simple questions that you refuse to answer because they demolish your reasoning.

Read any good concordances lately?

 

[WPM]

Read any good concordances lately?

That sums up your theological position. You have nothing to bring to the table apart from your usual boring mantra: what saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20? What saith Rev 20?

 

[Truth7t7]

Who cares whether it is 666. It is symbolic terminology in the most figurative setting in Scripture. You need to employ some type of contextual hermeneutics instead of just repeating what you have been taught. You do not seem to understand apocalyptic language. That is why your theology is messed up. You cannot even address Spiritual Israelite's simple question:

"the beast is referenced over 30 times in the book of Revelation. Does that mean it's a literal beast since it is referenced so many times?"

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[WPM]

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

You are unable to address the multiple contradictions in your position that forbids it.

1. The beast has been around for over 2000 years (Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:11-13, 1 John 2:18-23, 1 John 4:1-3, 5-6, 2 John 1:7, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-13). No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or an evil empire could possibly fulfil that portrayal.
2. How can a literal human being be literally “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? This would suggest him being in every single unsaved person. Only a spirit can do that.
3. The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever or will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
4. There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
5. What man possesses 7 heads? These describe 7 wicked kingdoms in history with 7 kings ruling over them. No man can possibly satisfy that.
6. According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.”
7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is nonsensical.

 

[Truth7t7]

7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is nonsensical.

You have been corrected several times on "Sea" as it relates to (The Beast) and you continue to post this misleading information

 

[Truth7t7]

You are unable to address the multiple contradictions in your position that forbids it.

1. The beast has been around for over 2000 years (Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:11-13, 1 John 2:18-23, 1 John 4:1-3, 5-6, 2 John 1:7, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-13). No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or an evil empire could possibly fulfil that portrayal.
2. How can a literal human being be literally “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? This would suggest him being in every single unsaved person. Only a spirit can do that.
3. The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever or will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
4. There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
5. What man possesses 7 heads? These describe 7 wicked kingdoms in history with 7 kings ruling over them. No man can possibly satisfy that.
6. According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.”
7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is nonsensical.

"Reformed Preterist Eschatology" Is A Lie, Tgats In Denial Of A Future Evil Human Man, As Fulfilling The Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast, "A Scary False Deceptive Teaching"

 

[WPM]

You have been corrected several times on "Sea" as it relates to (The Beast) and you continue to post this misleading information

Yea right. A literal man coming out of a symbolic sea. How convenient! You manipulate the sacred text in order to fit your teaching.

 

[St. Joseph]

(7) Premillennialists ignore the tenses in the original Greek in order to sustain their teaching. That is because the tenses expose Premil. For example, Scripture shows that Jesus is reigning now over creation, His people and all His enemies. It is shown to be in the present ongoing tense. Most Premillennialists reject this as it messes with their belief-system. However, 1 Corinthians 15:25-27 states: “he must reign (present, active infinitive), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For ‘he hath put’ (aorist active indicative) all things under his feet. “

Ephesians 1:20-22 tells us that God hath “raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put (aorist active indicative) all things under his feet.”

Hebrews 2:7-8 says, “Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: ‘Thou hast put all things in subjection’ (aorist active indicative) under his feet. For in that ‘he put all in subjection’ (aorist active indicative) under him, he left nothing that is not put under him."

Another example (of many) how Premillennialists reject the tenses in the original Greek, involves the redeemed currently functioning as kings and priests. The Bible shows God’s people reigning now. Ephesians 2:5: “Even when we were dead in sins, ‘hath quickened us together’ (aorist active indicative) with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).”

John says in Revelation 1:5-6, “Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made (aorist active indicative) us kings and priests unto God and his father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.”

Revelation 5, which is evidently located before the Second Advent, describes the same kingly/priestly reign of the redeemed in heaven, saying, “they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast (aorist active indicative) redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made (aorist active indicative) us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign (future article) on the earth” (v. 9).

Revelation 20:4-5 says, “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (aorist active indicative) and reigned (aorist active indicative) with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.”

A final matter may prove our point, John is describing a current reality in Revelation 20:6. It says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.” Our part in the first resurrection, shown throughout the Word to be Christ’s resurrection (Acts 26:23, Colossians 1:18, 1 Corinthians 15:20 and Revelation 1:5).

The duplicity of this subject is that everywhere else the presence tense is used Premillennialists have no difficulty in applying it to the present tense, when it does not interfere with their pet doctrine. Jesus parallels Revelation 20:6 in John 3:16, teaching: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth (present active particle) in him should not perish, but have (present active subjunctive) everlasting life.”

John 3:36 says, “He that believeth on the Son hath (present active indicative) everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God (the second death) abideth on him.” Jesus said in John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath (present active indicative) everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death (or experience the second death) unto life.”

This is supported by Revelation 2:11, which similarly says: “He that overcometh (present active particle) shall not be hurt of the second death.” Here is more proof that our escape from “the second death” is not future tense (as Premillennialists claim) but presence tense.

(8) Premil lacks corroboration for all its fundamental beliefs on Revelation 20. Whether you look at the binding of Satan, the release of Satan 1,000 years after the second coming, the restoration of animal sacrifices in an alleged future millennium, a thousand years of peace, perfection and prosperity, two different judgment days, two different resurrection days, the rebellion of the wicked at the end of the millennium, these enjoy no other support in Scripture. I struggle with this, because the only way to authenticate and understand any doctrine is interpret it with other Scripture.

Premil somehow extrapolates two distinct physical future resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+ out of Rev 20. Where in Scripture does it even mention "resurrection days" (plural), pertaining to the end? Nowhere! What Scripture (including Revelation 20) teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years+? Where in Scripture does it mention "judgement days" (plural), in regard to the end? What Scripture corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent, then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroy them? There is no other Scripture that teaches this doctrine. Premils force that upon the sacred text.

They have absolutely nothing to reinforce their core beliefs. They interpret their opinion of Revelation 20 by their opinion of Revelation 20. This is ridiculous! This is one of many reasons why this non-corroborative doctrine should be rejected.

(9) Premils invent an unscriptural three-age theological framework in order to justify their flawed belief system. This consists of “this age, the age to come and another age to come after the age to come.” The only problem is: this paradigm enjoys no scriptural support. Repeated Scripture, including the teaching of Christ, only recognizes two overriding ages – “this world/age” and “the world/age to come.” These terminologies are crucial when trying to understanding biblical eschatology. The dividing point between these two ages is continually shown in the sacred text to be the glorious final future coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

What is described as “this age” is current, corrupt and temporal and “the age to come” is impending, perfect and eternal. This age is depicted as an “evil age” that is blighted with sin, sinners, death, decay and Satan. The age to come is depicted as a “righteous” age that is marked by perfection, eternal rest, total bliss, a renewed creation, a glorified existence and the restoration of all things. Scripture makes it abundantly clear that there is no intervening time-period or temporal age in between “this age” and “the age to come.”

(10) Christ (who was "the truth"), Paul the Apostle (that Hebrew of the Hebrews) or none of the other NT writer taught a supposed future 1,000-year temporal visible earthly kingdom after the second coming and before the new heaven and the new earth. Their whole teaching depicted a current spiritual invisible heavenly eternal kingdom that was entered by faith. The final perfect visible manifestation of the kingdom is shown repeatedly in the NT to arrive when Jesus comes and destroys all enemies and banishes all imperfection forever. Premil mistakenly advocates another additional imperfect kingdom age, which is in fact a rerun of our current day, to support their faulty theology.

(11) Because these thousand years cannot be found anywhere else in Scripture, apart from the highly symbolic Revelation 20, Premil is forced to insert a thousand years in text after text where it doesn't exist, belong or fit. That is not right, and is called adding unto Scripture. Objective Bible students should struggle with building their eschatology on the 3rd last chapter of the Bible, in a highly figurative setting, especially when we are supposedly talking about the 2nd greatest age ever. The scriptural silence elsewhere speaks loud to most of us!

Premil must force a future thousand years into multiple passages throughout the OT and the NT where it does not belong or fit. That is not right, and is called adding unto Scripture.

Way too much to have to read just so you can say you dont believe in something.
After Rev 4 the church is raptured. The 24 elders in 5 represent the church. It is in heaven before tribulation starts in 6. After tribulation Christ comes and reigns a thousand years. Then as Paul states in Cor. He turns everything back to the Father.

 

[WPM]

"Reformed Preterist Eschatology" Is A Lie, Tgats In Denial Of A Future Evil Human Man, As Fulfilling The Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast, "A Scary False Deceptive Teaching"

Ignore the evidence and keep rabbiting what you have been taught.

 

[WPM]

Way too much to have to read just so you can say you dont believe in something.
After Rev 4 the church is raptured. The 24 elders in 5 represent the church. It is in heaven before tribulation starts in 6. After tribulation Christ comes and reigns a thousand years. Then as Paul states in Cor. He turns everything back to the Father.

1. Where is a future rapture mentioned in Revelation 4:1?
2. Where is the Church mentioned in Revelation 4:1?
3. How can 24 Elders represent the whole Church? After all, there are millions of believers.
4. Where else in Scripture is the Church represented with this symbol of 24 Elders?

 

[St. Joseph]

1. Where is a future rapture mentioned in Revelation 4:1?
2. Where is the Church mentioned in Revelation 4:1?
3. How can 24 Elders represent the whole Church? After all, there are millions of believers.
4. Where else in Scripture is the Church represented with this symbol of 24 Elders?

The whole 4th chapter talks about the church. After chapter 4 the church is never mentioned again until the last chapter of the book in a general call to repentance.
The 24 elders are clothed in white robes and cast their crowns at Christs feet. Ask youself....who besides the church will have crowns in white robes? No one but the church.
Enoch was called out before flood. Noah was lifted up. Lot was taken out of Sodom berore destruction. Christ will take his church out before tribulation.

 

[St. Joseph]

The whole 4th chapter talks about the church. After chapter 4 the church is never mentioned again until the last chapter of the book in a general call to repentance.
The 24 elders are clothed in white robes and cast their crowns at Christs feet. Ask youself....who besides the church will have crowns in white robes? No one but the church.
Enoch was called out before flood. Noah was lifted up. Lot was taken out of Sodom berore destruction. Christ will take his church out before tribulation. The Elders ask how long before Christ end everything. He says not until your brothers are delivered (paraphrasing). Those are ones who will be saved in the tribulation.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yea right. A literal man coming out of a symbolic sea. How convenient! You manipulate the sacred text in order to fit your teaching.

Yes you bend and twist scripture to suit your needs

"Sea" represents multitudes of people, as you continue to falsely claim a literal man comes from the ocean/sea "Childish"

 

[WPM]

The whole 4th chapter talks about the church. After chapter 4 the church is never mentioned again until the last chapter of the book in a general call to repentance.

Ok, so you are unable to answer my questions with Scripture. Your comments are simply not true! You are just repeating what you have been taught. Sad! Give me one reference to the word "Church" [Gr. ekklesia] in the whole 4th chapter?

The 24 elders are clothed in white robes and cast their crowns at Christs feet. Ask youself....who besides the church will have crowns in white robes? No one but the church.
Enoch was called out before flood. Noah was lifted up. Lot was taken out of Sodom berore destruction. Christ will take his church out before tribulation.

All the elect were brought out in total and all the wicked were destroyed in total who were left behind. That is the way it is going to be at the second coming.

 

[Truth7t7]

The whole 4th chapter talks about the church. After chapter 4 the church is never mentioned again until the last chapter of the book in a general call to repentance.
The 24 elders are clothed in white robes and cast their crowns at Christs feet. Ask youself....who besides the church will have crowns in white robes? No one but the church.
Enoch was called out before flood. Noah was lifted up. Lot was taken out of Sodom berore destruction. Christ will take his church out before tribulation.

"The Church" seen in Luke 21 below, those who are persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ, they will be eyewitnesses of the future great tribulation and second coming of Jesus in the heavens, your claim of a pre-tribulation rapture would be false

Tribulation verses 26-26 below, the Second Coming verses 27-28

Luke 21:17 & 25-28KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.