22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Truther]

Nothing compared to the Premil camp. It is a complete and utter mixture of opposing view. What is more, all the Cults buy into Premil.

Is Tucker Carlson a cult too?

 

[Truther]

1. Do you believe Satan and his minions are physical beings?
2. Is the dragon in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical dragon?
3. Is the serpent in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical serpent?
4. Is the key mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal door key?
5. Is the chain mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal chain?
6. Is the prison mentioned in Revelation 20:7 a literal brick prison?
7. Do you believe demons need to be detained in a literal physical prison with literal metal chains in order to be restrained?
8. Can a prisoner in a prison have great wrath while in chains?
9. Does imprisonment mean immobility?
10. Does it mean a prisoner cannot do harm?
11. Can a dog on a chain walk or roam about?
12. Can a prisoner in a prison walk or roam about?
13. Does a prisoner have the ability to kill, steal, destroy, rape and embezzle in prison?

You DO think signs are metaphors!

I am calling motor vehicles to have them keep you from driving...

 

[WPM]

I guess I am naive enough to believe it as it says a thousand or the thousand years 6 times in 6 verses as a/the thousand years.

I must lack the creative mind, such as Amil's have.

This is the most figurative Book in the Bible and you demand a hyper-literal interpretation upon its symbols. What is more, why is it not mentioned anywhere in Scripture? Hello! Think about it: because it is symbolic of a long period of time.

1. Are these creatures full of eyes with 6 wings (4:6) literal?
2. Who is this literal 7-eyed lamb (5:6)?
3. Who are these people who are talking to mountains (6:16)?
4. How can people be washed clean by blood (7:14)?
5. Are the locusts with human faces (9:7) literal?
6. Where can we find literal lion-headed horses (9:17)?
7. Who are these literal fire-breathing prophets (11:5)?
8. Is this woman clothed with the sun while standing on the moon (12:1) a literal woman?
9. Is this woman with two wings flying like a great eagle (Rev 12:14) a literal woman?
10. Do you believe this blood-drinking harlot (17:6) is a literal woman?
11. Do you know an obese woman big enough to sit on seven hills at the one time?Is this a literal serpent vomiting out a river (12:15)?
12. Do you believe this 7-headed beast with 10 horns (13:1) is a literal animal?
13. Are these real frogs coming out of the mouth of a dragon (16:13)?
14. Is the dragon trailing stars down from heaven to earth a real dragon trailing stars down from heaven to earth?
15. Is the lamb with seven horns and seven eyes a real lamb with seven horns and seven eyes?
16. Do you know a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars?
17. So, you're expecting Christ to literally return from heaven on a white horse with many crowns on his head, and with a literal sharp sword coming out of His mouth?

 

[WPM]

Is Tucker Carlson a cult too?

What are you talking about?

 

[Truther]

How the Amil reads Rev 20....


20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand THAT IS NOT A REAL ANGEL, PIT OR CHAIN.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years OR WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO BE,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season WHICH CAN MEAN ANYTHING YOU CAN IMAGINE AS PER PLANET PRETERIST ETC.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years WHIS IS METAPHORIC OF FOLKS WITH BAD NECK ACHES ETC THAT GOD HEALS..

This is the most figurative Book in the Bible and you demand a hyper-literal interpretation upon its symbols. What is more, why is it not mentioned anywhere in Scripture? Hello! Think about it: because it is symbolic of a long period of time.

1. Are these creatures full of eyes with 6 wings (4:6) literal?
2. Who is this literal 7-eyed lamb (5:6)?
3. Who are these people who are talking to mountains (6:16)?
4. How can people be washed clean by blood (7:14)?
5. Are the locusts with human faces (9:7) literal?
6. Where can we find literal lion-headed horses (9:17)?
7. Who are these literal fire-breathing prophets (11:5)?
8. Is this woman clothed with the sun while standing on the moon (12:1) a literal woman?
9. Is this woman with two wings flying like a great eagle (Rev 12:14) a literal woman?
10. Do you believe this blood-drinking harlot (17:6) is a literal woman?
11. Do you know an obese woman big enough to sit on seven hills at the one time?Is this a literal serpent vomiting out a river (12:15)?
12. Do you believe this 7-headed beast with 10 horns (13:1) is a literal animal?
13. Are these real frogs coming out of the mouth of a dragon (16:13)?
14. Is the dragon trailing stars down from heaven to earth a real dragon trailing stars down from heaven to earth?
15. Is the lamb with seven horns and seven eyes a real lamb with seven horns and seven eyes?
16. Do you know a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars?
17. So, you're expecting Christ to literally return from heaven on a white horse with many crowns on his head, and with a literal sharp sword coming out of His mouth?

Okay, schools in session.

Now, Rev 1 says the book is signified.

This means sign-i-fied.

Okay, now that you know it is not metaphorified.

There are a few signs to help explain what John saw to simple readers.

Like Dragon=satan.

Lamb=Jesus.

You figure this out, you pass the class.

 

[Truther]

What are you talking about?

Amil doctrines are goofy as a grape, but I don't call them "a cult" because they are different.

Get it?

 

[WPM]

How the Amil reads Rev 20....


20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand THAT IS NOT A REAL ANGEL, PIT OR CHAIN.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years OR WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO BE,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season WHICH CAN MEAN ANYTHING YOU CAN IMAGINE AS PER PLANET PRETERIST ETC.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years WHIS IS METAPHORIC OF FOLKS WITH BAD NECK ACHES ETC THAT GOD HEALS..

Okay, schools in session.

Now, Rev 1 says the book is signified.

This means sign-i-fied.

Okay, now that you know it is not metaphorified.

There are a few signs to help explain what John saw to simple readers.

Like Dragon=satan.

Lamb=Jesus.

You figure this out, you pass the class.

OK then. Amils can corroborate their view of Revelation 20. As a former Premil, and through debating it for years, I believe Premils cannot. Are you willing to put your opinions to the test? I put it to you that you have no corroboration for your view, Amils has odious amounts of support.

 

[Truther]

OK then. Amils can corroborate their view of Revelation 20. As a former Premil, and through debating it for years, I believe Premils cannot. Are you willing to put your opinions to the test? I put it to you that you have no corroboration for your view, Amils has odious amounts of support.

The difference is...

Amils teach Rev is a bunch of metaphors.

Premils teach Rev is exactly what it is saying with a few descriptive signs to help understand the meanings.

Amils are this group....


18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[WPM]

The difference is...

Amils teach Rev is a bunch of metaphors.

Premils teach Rev is exactly what it is saying with a few descriptive signs to help understand the meanings.

Amils are this group....


18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I knew you would not be up for the challenge. The reason is: it would expose your error. Truth can abide examination.

 

[Truth7t7]

The quickening of the spiritually dead life results in a consequential spiritual resurrection. Resurrection cannot plainly occur unless God in His providence reaches down in supernatural quickening power and imputes spiritual life into a spiritually dead man.

Not one word in the Holy Scripture supports your private interpretation of a (Spiritual Resurrection) your teaching and doctrine isnt found in scripture, it's that simple

The word "Resurrection" relates directly to the literal bodily resurrection seen throughout scripture

Not one verse in my KJV contains the words "Spiritual" and "Resurrection" together, not one verse

You use this private interpretation to lay a false foundation for the words (First Resurrection) seen in Revelation 20:6 as being fulfilled at a believers "Salvation" wrong

 

[WPM]

Not one word in the Holy Scripture supports your private interpretation of a (Spiritual Resurrection) your teaching and doctrine isnt found in scripture, it's that simple

The word "Resurrection" relates directly to the literal bodily resurrection seen throughout scripture

Not one verse in my KJV contains the words "Spiritual" and "Resurrection" together, not one verse

You use this private interpretation to lay a false foundation for the words (First Resurrection) seen in Revelation 20:6 as being fulfilled at a believers "Salvation" wrong

LOL. I provided the evidence, and as usual you avoided every text. That is what you do. That is why it is hard to take your posts serious. Your Schofield approach does not permit you to let the Bible speak for itself. That is why you cut-and-paste all of your answers. You cannot discuss the inspired text. You cannot discuss the glaring holes in your argument. Your ducking around basic questions that expose your thesis is testimony that you are in love with a school of thought rather than the inspired text.

The original Greek uses the word "resurrection" and "risen" multiple times in a spiritual sense to describe the salvation of the sinner. You refuse to accept these or address these. To do so would negate your teaching.

The reader can look back and see how you have an inability to address and exegete passages that forbid what you have been taught. This is why your arguments are crumbling. This is why you run from every debate.

 

[Keraz]

Amils has odious amounts of support.

This I DO agree with. The support for AMill is odious in the extreme! They rip out Revelation 20 from their Bibles and much else as well,

As for the PreMill belief, [a rapture to heaven] I reject that false and unbiblical idea. Why go to heaven anyway? God promises great blessings to His people on earth.

 

[WPM]

This I DO agree with. The support for AMill is odious in the extreme! They rip out Revelation 20 from their Bibles and much else as well,

The day of salvation has been ongoing since the Fall (Isaiah 49:8 and 2 Corinthians 6:2). It is the “acceptable time” or “acceptable year” (Isaiah 49:8, 61:2, Luke 4:19) to be saved. “Today” is an age of grace the only day to respond to His voice (Hebrews 3:7-8, 4:7). There is no other day of hope after this day for salvation.

The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Repeated Scripture shows that now is the only day of salvation. After showing us the destruction of this earth, the works that are in it, the heavens, the elements when Jesus comes, and after describing the longsuffering of God in the days of Noah before the destruction of all the wicked, Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). See also Romans 2:4 and 2 Timothy 2:10. This shows that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming. A sign of the end is that the Gospel must “be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14). The second coming brings the curtain down on the great commission. Once the ark door closes it is too late (Matthew 25:10-13, 28:19-20 and Act 3:19-21). At the end of this age (or literally, the consummation of the age), the time of God’s grace will finally be complete.

The age to come has no room for "mortals" (Luke 20:34-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and Revelation 21-22) or the unregenerate (Psalm 25:12-13, 37:9-11, 22, 28-36, 34, Proverbs 2:21-22, 10:30, Luke 17:26-30, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Corinthians 15:24, I Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). One must be qualified to inherit the new earth. They must be worthy to enter that age (Luke 20:35). Only glorified saints can inherit the glorified earth. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Matthew 13:29, 49, 28:20, John 6:39-44, 54, John 11:21-27, John 12:48, Ephesians 1:10 and Revelation 10:5-7 would seem to suggest that time reaches its fullness at the climactic return of Christ. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Luke 20:34-36, Acts 3:19-21, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 ,1 Peter 1:3-5 and Revelation 21:1-5 all show that the end of the bondage of corruption occurs when Jesus comes. A far more glorious age will then be ushered in. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

1 Corinthians 13:12, Ephesians 4:13 and Revelation 10:5-7 show that the curtain coming down on the mystery of God, thus confirming we are at the end of time and entering into eternity when all will finally be revealed. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Repeated Scripture locates the replacement of the current heavens and earth with the new heavens and earth and incorruption at the second coming. Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15 shows us that this occurs at the second coming. This is indeed the end of time, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil. It is the beginning of eternity. It is the beginning of perfection. It is the beginning of incorruption. It is the beginning of a new arrangement.

It seems like whatever angle you examine the second coming it appears to be climactic, final and glorious.

 

[WPM]

How the Amil reads Rev 20....


20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand THAT IS NOT A REAL ANGEL, PIT OR CHAIN.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years OR WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO BE,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season WHICH CAN MEAN ANYTHING YOU CAN IMAGINE AS PER PLANET PRETERIST ETC.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years WHIS IS METAPHORIC OF FOLKS WITH BAD NECK ACHES ETC THAT GOD HEALS..

Okay, schools in session.

Now, Rev 1 says the book is signified.

This means sign-i-fied.

Okay, now that you know it is not metaphorified.

There are a few signs to help explain what John saw to simple readers.

Like Dragon=satan.

Lamb=Jesus.

You figure this out, you pass the class.

Sign-i-fied means symbolized or "metaphorified." Your hyper-literal approach to this book totally negates its meaning.

 

[WPM]

Amil doctrines are goofy as a grape, but I don't call them "a cult" because they are different.

Get it?

I have never called Premil a cult, or do I consider it so. I simply added: most of the Cults are Premil (ie, Mormonism and JWs). They all arose in the early/mid 1800s along with Pretrib. This was the renaissance of Premil.

 

[WPM]

You DO think signs are metaphors!

I am calling motor vehicles to have them keep you from driving...

Stop avoiding the obvious!

1. Do you believe Satan and his minions are physical beings?
2. Is the dragon in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical dragon?
3. Is the serpent in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical serpent?
4. Is the key mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal door key?
5. Is the chain mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal chain?
6. Is the prison mentioned in Revelation 20:7 a literal brick prison?
7. Do you believe demons need to be detained in a literal physical prison with literal metal chains in order to be restrained?
8. Can a prisoner in a prison have great wrath while in chains?
9. Does imprisonment mean immobility?
10. Does it mean a prisoner cannot do harm?
11. Can a dog on a chain walk or roam about?
12. Can a prisoner in a prison walk or roam about?
13. Does a prisoner have the ability to kill, steal, destroy, rape and embezzle in prison?

 

[Truther]

I knew you would not be up for the challenge. The reason is: it would expose your error. Truth can abide examination.

How can I argue with someone that thinks the book of Rev has endless, open ended meanings(metaphors).

You made it like MAD magazine.

 

[Truther]

Sign-i-fied means symbolized or "metaphorified." Your hyper-literal approach to this book totally negates its meaning.

Sign-i-fied.

Sign.

Get it?

Do you drive and think a 15 mph sign means 50?

I say, don't read the signs to be safe.

 

[Truther]

I have never called Premil a cult, or do I consider it so. I simply added: most of the Cults are Premil (ie, Mormonism and JWs). They all arose in the early/mid 1800s along with Pretrib. This was the renaissance of Premil.

Did you obey this?...

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Truther]

Stop avoiding the obvious!

1. Do you believe Satan and his minions are physical beings?
2. Is the dragon in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical dragon?
3. Is the serpent in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical serpent?
4. Is the key mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal door key?
5. Is the chain mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal chain?
6. Is the prison mentioned in Revelation 20:7 a literal brick prison?
7. Do you believe demons need to be detained in a literal physical prison with literal metal chains in order to be restrained?
8. Can a prisoner in a prison have great wrath while in chains?
9. Does imprisonment mean immobility?
10. Does it mean a prisoner cannot do harm?
11. Can a dog on a chain walk or roam about?
12. Can a prisoner in a prison walk or roam about?
13. Does a prisoner have the ability to kill, steal, destroy, rape and embezzle in prison?

Do you think the spirit world is reality or not?

We can have reality here but they cannot?

The Bible is full of lies and misrepresentations in your thinking.


The preterist(satan's minions) say..."don't worry about hell folks, it aint real. Hell is a metaphor...".

You have no idea how REAL it is after death.

You likely think there is no lake of FIRE in the spirit world that HURTS, right?