22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[CadyandZoe]

You did not present one single Old Testament Scripture text that shows "that the temple sacrifices (among other religious practices) mark the people of God as Holy People."

I did but you don't seem to understand that God prescribed the Temple sacrifices.

What is more, where do these or any other OT or NT passages, including Rev 20 promote the restoration of the slaughter of the innocent lambs and goats in your future millennial earth?

If you don't understand what God prescribed them in the past, you will not understand why he will prescribe them in the future.

What covenant are these millennial sacrifices under?

Jeremiah 31:33

Is this the old covenant restarted or is it a new old covenant? It is definitely not the new covenant!

Jeremiah 31:31 --> New Covenant; Jeremiah 31:33 --> A covenant after those days.

So, the blood of Christ is totally ineffective for the religious phonies that swamp your alleged future millennium? What do you imagine these additional sin offerings will achieve (apart from being a sacrilegious circus)? What is the purpose of the futile slaughtering of these innocent animals in your future millennium?

Are you saying that the blood of Christ is ineffective? I didn't.
Nonetheless, Christians are invited to synthesize two Biblical ideas: 1) God prescribed the temple service including ALL of the sacrifices, and 2) Paul said that the atonement sacrifices could never take away sins. How do we put these two ideas together? In your view, you allow the slaughtering of innocent animals to stand as a "covering of sin". I don't agree with this view but regardless, you don't seem to care about innocent animals as long as it serves a purpose.

With the sacrifice of animals by old covenant priests there is a continual remembrance of sin, yet by looking at the nail-scarred hands of Christ there is a continual remembrance of the eternal abolition of sin. What a confused message is being sent out in this Premil millennial temple. What an offence these religious actors present by imitating the Old Testament priests in their use of sacrifices. Why would Christ lend his credibility and bless to such a short run at?

From what I can tell, your objection to the animal sacrifices is predicated on the idea that future temple sacrifices will be made for the cause of atonement. I don't ever remember making this claim. So you are not offended by anything that I have said.

God decreed that “the blood … maketh atonement for the soul” (Leviticus 17:11). The atonement was the only possible means of salvation for sinful man.

I don't agree with your conclusion. The atonement sacrifices served as a means of atonement, but they NEVER served as the means of salvation. Atonement doesn't mean "to cover" as you suppose. It means "to reconcile." It comes from the Old English slogan, "at-one-ment" or the state of being in agreement with God.

The old covenant animal sacrifices provided external cleansing but not internal cleansing. They were also temporary. They had an expiration date. They had no eternal value. When Christ came He removed the need for them.

I maintain that the atonement sacrifices were never the means of salvation. They were always the means of gaining reconciliation with God if the penitent offered them with an honest and contrite heart. The blood of Jesus is the means for permanent reconciliation with God if one places his loyalty and trust in the blood of Jesus.

During the Millennial Period the Atonement sacrifices will play a new role, no longer being necessary for reconciliation.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You have been clearly answered below in "big bold read" once again

Scripture below clearly teaches that the group spoken about below will be "Eyewitnesses" of Jerusalem being surrounded, events in the heavens, events of the tribulation, and "Eyewitnesses" of the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

"Future Events Unfulfilled"

Luke 21:24-28KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

I asked you to answer yes or no to my question and you can't even do that? This is a waste of time. I'm done with this.

 

[WPM]

X

You need to sort out your HTML. Can you double check before posting your posts?

 

[CadyandZoe]

You need to sort out your HTML. Can you double check before posting your posts?

Yes, good idea. I'm sorry.

 

[Truth7t7]

I asked you to answer yes or no to my question and you can't even do that? This is a waste of time. I'm done with this.

Of course your done, because you have no scripture to support your preterist claims in 66-70AD fulfillment of Luke 21:24-28 below

Scripture below clearly teaches that the group spoken about below will be "Eyewitnesses" of Jerusalem being surrounded, events in the heavens, events of the tribulation, and "Eyewitnesses" of the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

"Future Events Unfulfilled"

Luke 21:24-28KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Amen! The old covenant animal sacrifices only served the purpose of foreshadowing Christ's "once for all" sacrifice.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The animal sacrifices served their purpose and then no longer had a purpose once Christ made His sacrifice. This should not be hard to understand. And it also shouldn't be hard to understand that it would make no sense for animal sacrifices and offerings to be reinstated at any time in the future since Christ's sacrifice covers sins forever.

If someone wants to claim that animal sacrifices will be performed in the future but for a different reason than in the past, then they need to show that with scripture. But, that is impossible to do. No wonder no one even tries. So, they claim there will be animal sacrifices in the future for some unknown reason and we shouldn't question it. As if scripture would not give the reason, which is a ridiculous notion.

It isn't as if we haven't tried. At least I have tried, but to no avail.

 

[WPM]

Scripture below clearly teaches that the group spoken about below will be "Eyewitnesses" of Jerusalem being surrounded, events in the heavens, events of the tribulation, and "Eyewitnesses" of the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

"Future Events Unfulfilled"

Luke 21:24-28KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Stop your constant avoidance! You are ducking around the argument and question. This is your MO. Please stop and think instead of your usual cut-and-paste.

What you state is not addressing what I am highlighting/asking. Are we now in “the times of the Gentiles”? If this is the case then the tribulation in view in our discussion must assuredly be an historic event, not a future hope. I am asking you specifically about this time of the Gentiles. What is it? When does it arrive, the great tribulation lasts right up until the climatic return of Christ?

 

[WPM]

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

So, you are admitting that your theological claims do not make sense if you place the GT at the end?

• Israel cannot be "led away captive into all nations" after your GT because the end will be there?
• Jerusalem cannot be trodden down of the Gentiles" because the end will be there?
• The "times of the Gentiles" must therefore be fulfilled” now?

 

[CadyandZoe]

You are so stubborn. Futurists use this verse as evidence that the beast is actually a human being. But what they overlook is that in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.” There is no “a” in the original Greek. It was added by the translators, most of whom believed the Pope was thee antichrist. The Greek simply reads: The arithmós (number) gár (for) anthroópou (man) estín (is)… 666.” Six is the number of man; it is the number of the flesh. 666 in some way illustrates the absolute hopelessness of those that have crossed over the line of reprobation. All those that have been reprobated have finally been given up to their own lusts, whereas those that are “in Christ Jesus … walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1). It is they that refuse the mark of the beast and have their names “written in the book of life from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 17:8).

To be fair @Truth7t7 gave you more than one verse to make the point. But with regard to the Greek, in fact the Greek has no word, which corresponds to the English "a".

 

[WPM]

It isn't as if we haven't tried. At least I have tried, but to no avail.

You have not tried. You have continually avoided the questions and arguments that forbid your heresy. You've shown that the cross is not enough for you. You need other sacrifices to satisfy you in the future.

 

[WPM]

Congratulations on extending the scope of what defines a partial preterist beyond what anyone else does. Good job.

Most people understand that partial preterists also believe that all or most of the Olivet Discourse has been fulfilled (which people like WPM and I don't) and that most of Revelation has been fulfilled (people like WPM and I don't). But, go ahead and use a different definition of "partial preterist" than everyone else does if you want, you rebel.

By using your type of logic that says believing any Bible prophecy was fulfilled in the past makes someone a partial preterist, believing that any prophecy is not yet fulfilled makes someone a futurist, which means we're all futurists. Your very general way of defining terms pretty much makes everyone partial preterists and futurists. So, congratulations on making these labels completely pointless and unhelpful.

The only reason he name-calls is because he cannot address your scriptural arguments.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

From what I can tell, your objection to the animal sacrifices is predicated on the idea that future temple sacrifices will be made for the cause of atonement. I don't ever remember making this claim. So you are not offended by anything that I have said.

So, I assume your belief is not based on the following passage at all then?

Ezekiel 45:15 Also one sheep is to be taken from every flock of two hundred from the well-watered pastures of Israel. These will be used for the grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the people, declares the Sovereign Lord. 16 All the people of the land will be required to give this special offering to the prince in Israel. 17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites.

Most who believe in future animal sacrifices use Ezekiel 40-48 to support their belief. But, you don't? If so, which passages do you use to support that belief? I imagine Zechariah 14 might be one. Anything else?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It isn't as if we haven't tried. At least I have tried, but to no avail.

You have? Where? I'm pretty sure that you have never shown anything from scripture that explains why animal sacrifices would be performed in the future. You may have offered speculations as to why that would be the case, but that doesn't mean anything without scriptural support.

 

[WPM]

I did but you don't seem to understand that God prescribed the Temple sacrifices.
If you don't understand what God prescribed them in the past, you will not understand why he will prescribe them in the future.


Jeremiah 31:33

Jeremiah 31:31 --> New Covenant; Jeremiah 31:33 --> A covenant after those days.

Are you saying that the blood of Christ is ineffective? I didn't.
Nonetheless, Christians are invited to synthesize two Biblical ideas: 1) God prescribed the temple service including ALL of the sacrifices, and 2) Paul said that the atonement sacrifices could never take away sins. How do we put these two ideas together? In your view, you allow the slaughtering of innocent animals to stand as a "covering of sin". I don't agree with this view but regardless, you don't seem to care about innocent animals as long as it serves a purpose.

From what I can tell, your objection to the animal sacrifices is predicated on the idea that future temple sacrifices will be made for the cause of atonement. I don't ever remember making this claim. So you are not offended by anything that I have said.

I don't agree with your conclusion. The atonement sacrifices served as a means of atonement, but they NEVER served as the means of salvation. Atonement doesn't mean "to cover" as you suppose. It means "to reconcile." It comes from the Old English slogan, "at-one-ment" or the state of being in agreement with God.


I maintain that the atonement sacrifices were never the means of salvation. They were always the means of gaining reconciliation with God if the penitent offered them with an honest and contrite heart. The blood of Jesus is the means for permanent reconciliation with God if one places his loyalty and trust in the blood of Jesus.

During the Millennial Period the Atonement sacrifices will play a new role, no longer being necessary for reconciliation.

I just showed you what the Scriptures say for themselves in both the Old Testament and the New Testament and you reject that, redefine what the Bible says, and then invent a future age full of pointless blood-letting to accommodate your error. All this yet you have nothing in your millennial passage – Revelation 20 – to support your thesis. You have nowhere else in the New Testament. All you can do is twist Old Testament Scripture and dump it into some imaginary future millennium after the second coming. This is at the core of your confusion and deception. You think you're smarter than Scripture. Do you think that you know more than God? Do you think that you can redefine everything the Bible states as a fact? What you promote is heresy. You put a question mark over the finished work of Jesus.

You have still not presented one single Old Testament Scripture text here that shows "that the temple sacrifices (among other religious practices) mark the people of God as Holy People." There is nothing there that states that was the purpose for these blood sacrifices.

You force that into the text to support this error. Is belonging to God, embracing the cross of Christ, and possessing the Holy Spirit not adequate enough to prove someone is "holy"? If that is not enough for you and for them then their destiny is not the world to come but the Lake of Fire. Obviously, the blood of Christ is totally ineffective for the religious phonies that swamp your alleged future millennium.

None of Deuteronomy 7:6, 14:2, 28:9, 30:6-8 teach that ceremonial rituals make one holy. None of these even mention animal sacrifices or sin offerings never mind describe the meaning of them in the old covenant. You really do not seem to know what you are talking about. You are clearly winging it here with this heretical doctrine your are promoting.

Study the real meaning of the old covenant “ordinances” in the Old and New Testament and you will quickly see that this is talking about the elaborate Mosaic ceremonial system, including the animal sacrificial arrangement. Repeated Scripture shows that Christ through His sinless life, atoning death and glorious resurrection abolished this redundant sacrificial system.

Moses told Israel in Deuteronomy 7:11: “Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.”

This covered the full gamut of the old covenant arrangement and Mosaic Law. The “commandments” were the moral code of God. The “statutes” were the ceremonial ordinances. The “judgments” were the formal religious decrees. These collectively represented the old covenant arrangement.

The “ordinances” included in the old covenant a litany of elaborate external regulations, traditions and sacrifices that were active until the time of the new order.

Hebrews 9:1, 6-10, 13-15 tells us: “the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary … the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God … For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.”

The sacrificial system looked forward to the coming Messiah and His atoning sacrifice to end all sacrifices. It rendered the old sacrifice system redundant.

Ephesians 2:15 teaches: “Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.”

When Christ made that final sacrifice for sin He satisfied all God’s holy demands for sin and uncleanness and thus Christ became the final propitiation and substitution for the sinner. Jesus did away with any need or reliance upon the outward keeping of the old covenant religious system. The cross fulfilled forever God’s demand for a perfect once-for-all sacrifice.

Colossians 2:14: “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

Here you have it! This has all been abolished.

Q. When did/will the "blotting out the handwriting of ordinances" occur?

A. Christ "took it out of the way" by "nailing it to his cross.”

These ordinances embraced the old covenant civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. They were finished at the cross.

Colossians 2:20: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances.”

This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.

 

[WPM]

So, I assume your belief is not based on the following passage at all then?

Ezekiel 45:15 Also one sheep is to be taken from every flock of two hundred from the well-watered pastures of Israel. These will be used for the grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the people, declares the Sovereign Lord. 16 All the people of the land will be required to give this special offering to the prince in Israel. 17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites.

Most who believe in future animal sacrifices use Ezekiel 40-48 to support their belief. But, you don't? If so, which passages do you use to support that belief? I imagine Zechariah 14 might be one. Anything else?

Check mate! LOL. Every time he posts he contradicts what he has previously said and also contradicts Scripture.

 

[WPM]

During the Millennial Period the Atonement sacrifices will play a new role, no longer being necessary for reconciliation.

Really?

What about your proof text?

Ezekiel 45:15-17 says: “And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation [Heb. Kaphar] for them, saith the Lord GOD. All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel. And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation [Heb. Kaphar] for the house of Israel.”

There is nothing in this text that would give us any grounds to place this old covenant custom in a future millennial earth. What possible benefit could the widespread slaughter of innocent animals secure to reconcile mankind unto God? There is no evidence here that God would restore this bloodbath after the second coming under the guise of “the trespass offering,” “the meat offering,” “burnt offerings,” “peace offerings,” “meat offerings,” “drink offerings” and “sin offering” to reconcile anyone or anything before God.

On the Day of Atonement once a year the High Priest would make scarifies for his own sin, the sin of his family and Israel’s sin. Atonement is a very common word in the Old Testament but the word “propitiation” is preferred in the New Testament. The Hebrew word means Kaphar carries the basic idea of covering over. The Greek word used in the Greek Old Testament to interpret this word means appeasement or satisfaction, specifically toward God. It carries the sense of pacify, placate, expiate or cancel. It is typically interpreted “atonement” or “reconciliation” by the translators throughout the Old Testament. But, cover, pacify, placate, expiate or cancel what? The sin of the people that the sacrifice was made for.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You have not tried. You have continually avoided the questions and arguments that forbid your heresy. You've shown that the cross is not enough for you. You need other sacrifices to satisfy you in the future.

What you expect is a verse that says, "There will be animal sacrifices in the Millennial kingdom." What I don't understand is why you think this would prove anything.

When I was debating atheists online, they would ask me similar questions. For instance, a man told me that he refused to believe in God and that he would never believe in God unless God came down and stood right in front of him. But he wasn't serious and I knew it. I knew that if God actually stood right in front of that man, the atheist wouldn't be convinced. He would attribute God's visit to an hallucination. He would find some reason to fortify his disbelief. People always find a way to avoid having to believe what they don't want to believe.

To someone who believed and understood the OT, the scriptures I gave you would be convincing.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What you expect is a verse that says, "There will be animal sacrifices in the Millennial kingdom." What I don't understand is why you think this would prove anything.

When I was debating atheists online, they would ask me similar questions. For instance, a man told me that he refused to believe in God and that he would never believe in God unless God came down and stood right in front of him. But he wasn't serious and I knew it. I knew that if God actually stood right in front of that man, the atheist wouldn't be convinced. He would attribute God's visit to an hallucination. He would find some reason to fortify his disbelief. People always find a way to avoid having to believe what they don't want to believe.

This is a ridiculous analogy. If you showed a scripture passage that clearly indicated that there will be animal sacrifices performed during a future millennial kingdom we would believe it. Why are you acting as if our mindsets are no different than atheists? That is offensive.

To someone who believed and understood the OT, the scriptures I gave you would be convincing.

Do they also believe and understand the NT? Because no one who properly believes and understands the NT can be convinced by your arguments.

 

[WPM]

What you expect is a verse that says, "There will be animal sacrifices in the Millennial kingdom." What I don't understand is why you think this would prove anything.

When I was debating atheists online, they would ask me similar questions. For instance, a man told me that he refused to believe in God and that he would never believe in God unless God came down and stood right in front of him. But he wasn't serious and I knew it. I knew that if God actually stood right in front of that man, the atheist wouldn't be convinced. He would attribute God's visit to an hallucination. He would find some reason to fortify his disbelief. People always find a way to avoid having to believe what they don't want to believe.

To someone who believed and understood the OT, the scriptures I gave you would be convincing.

No! You have not showed us anywhere in the Old Testament that teaches "that the temple sacrifices (among other religious practices) mark the people of God as Holy People." Obviously, Revelation 20 does not teach such nonsense. What is more, there is nowhere in the New Testament that teaches this. However, there is multiple Scripture that forbids your doctrine. It forbids your promotion of blood leading in the future in the presence of God to atone for the sins of human beings. Your depiction is a joke. It is a figment of your imagination. It is a fairytale. You promote a bloody ceremonial circus. Nowhere in the Old Testament did it say that cutting the throats of innocent animals in the age to come renders these Christ-rejecting religious actors "holy people." The verses you present do not say that. You are winging it again. You are manipulating Scripture to support your beliefs.

 

[CadyandZoe]

So, I assume your belief is not based on the following passage at all then?

Ezekiel 45:15 Also one sheep is to be taken from every flock of two hundred from the well-watered pastures of Israel. These will be used for the grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the people, declares the Sovereign Lord. 16 All the people of the land will be required to give this special offering to the prince in Israel. 17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites.

Most who believe in future animal sacrifices use Ezekiel 40-48 to support their belief. But, you don't? If so, which passages do you use to support that belief? I imagine Zechariah 14 might be one. Anything else?

When I was asked to give scriptures to prove my case, I didn't offer Ezekiel 45 because some believe this section of Ezekiel is hypothetical. So I offered the book of Deuteronomy.