22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Truth7t7]

Why did you fail to mention that the Greek word anthrōpos can also refer to mankind as a whole and not just to an individual human being?

The Beast of Revelation chapter 13 below will be a "Individual Human Man" as Strongs clearly identifies below

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18KJV

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This borders on being libellous.
I would not like to be in your shoes at the Judgment, for how you rudely and nastily accuse your fellow brethren.

You have done that yourself many times, so you're not one to talk about this. Just worry about your own self and what you will say on Judgment Day to explain your own extreme rudeness and nastiness.

As for explaining why God will require sacrifices and offerings again; we do not know the Mind of God.

This is a total cop out.

We only know that He wanted them before and that He does not change.

And scripture makes it clear why He wanted them. Why would that not be the case for any supposed future animal sacrifices as well?

Isn't that sufficient for you?

Scripture indicates that animal sacrifices served the purpose of foreshadowing Christ's sacrifice (Heb 10:1). Is that not sufficient for you? They already served their purpose. The fact that you can't explain what their purpose would be in the future is very telling and reveals the extreme weakness of your belief.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Beast of Revelation chapter 13 below will be a "Individual Human Man" as Strongs clearly identifies below

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18KJV

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Yet another robotic response from you where you don't address anything I said. I'm done with you. I'd rather talk to human beings.

 

[Truth7t7]

Where is that indicated at all in Luke 21? It's clearly the temple buildings standing at that time that were being talked about in the Olivet Discourse and not the Lord's body. John didn't record the Olivet Discourse. You are being very dishonest here with the text in the Olivet Discourse.

Im not dishonest as you falsely claim in a direct personal attack, it appears your ignorant of the biblical facts below

John was at the same temple visit when the money changers were driven out, his account clearly shows the subject was the destruction of the Lord's body, and not a literal temple made of stones

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You give complete disregard to the fact that (The Beast) is described with personal pronouns, He, His, Him, a literal human man

So, I guess you believe that mystery Babylon is a human woman, too?

Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Im not dishonest as you falsely claim in a direct personal attack,

You are dishonest by acting as if John also wrote about the Olivet Discourse, which he clearly did not. That is as dishonest as it gets.

it appears your ignorant of the biblical facts below

John was at the same temple visit when the money changers were driven out, his account clearly shows the subject was the destruction of the Lord's body, and not a literal temple made of stones

LOL.

Luke 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

You are trying to tell me that when they "spake of the temple" and "how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts", they were talking about Jesus's body? LOL.

Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

It's undeniable that Jesus was talking about the same temple that is referenced in verse 5 because He said "as for these things which ye behold". These things referred to the temple and "its goodly stones and gifts". That is what they were looking at. But, you're saying it's talking about Jesus's body? His body was adorned with goodly stones and gifts? LOL.

 

[Truth7t7]

(1) Surely we are now in “the times of the Gentiles”? If this is the case then the tribulation in view in our discussion must assuredly be an historic event, not a future hope.
(2) Do you believe that Israel will be "led away captive into all nations" after the second coming then?
(3) Do you believe that "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” after the second coming?

Scripture below clearly teaches that the group spoken about below will be "Eyewitnesses" of Jerusalem being surrounded, events in the heavens, events of the tribulation, and "Eyewitnesses" of the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

"Future Events Unfulfilled"

Luke 21:24-28KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Truth7t7]

So, I guess you believe that mystery Babylon is a human woman, too?

Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore (Her), Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

Revelation 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

Revelation 18:19AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

(1) Surely we are now in “the times of the Gentiles”? If this is the case then the tribulation in view in our discussion must assuredly be an historic event, not a future hope.
(2) Do you believe that Israel will be "led away captive into all nations" after the second coming then?
(3) Do you believe that "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” after the second coming?

All great questions that he will surely either ignore completely or won't address specifically.

Edit: Seeing his response, I was right.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are dishonest by acting as if John also wrote about the Olivet Discourse, which he clearly did not. That is as dishonest as it gets.

LOL.

Luke 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

You are trying to tell me that when they "spake of the temple" and "how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts", they were talking about Jesus's body? LOL.

Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

It's undeniable that Jesus was talking about the same temple that is referenced in verse 5 because He said "as for these things which ye behold". These things referred to the temple and "its goodly stones and gifts". That is what they were looking at. But, you're saying it's talking about Jesus's body? His body was adorned with goodly stones and gifts? LOL.

You have been clearly answered several times, once again

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore (Her), Mystery Babylon The Great.

I didn't bring that up to discuss the identity of Babylon. Something is very wrong with your reading comprehension skills.

I only brought up Mystery Babylon to show the folly of your reasoning behind the beast being a man. You said personal pronouns like he and him being applied to the beast show that the beast is a literal human man. Using that logic, we'd have to conclude that Mystery Babylon is a literal human woman because it refers to Babylon as "she" and "her". So, can you see how flawed your logic is now?

 

[Truth7t7]

All great questions that he will surely either ignore completely or won't address specifically.

Edit: Seeing his response, I was right.

WPM was clearly answered in post #5067 above, your claim is false, once again

Scripture below clearly teaches that the group spoken about below will be "Eyewitnesses" of Jerusalem being surrounded, events in the heavens, events of the tribulation, and "Eyewitnesses" of the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

"Future Events Unfulfilled"

Luke 21:24-28KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You have been clearly answered several times, once again

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Another robotic response from you. I can't take this anymore. If you ever decide that you want to actually have a back and forth discussion where you actually specifically address what is said to you, let me know.

WPM was clearly answered, your claim is false

You did not specifically address his questions. Stop lying.

 

[Truth7t7]

I didn't bring that up to discuss the identity of Babylon. Something is very wrong with your reading comprehension skills.

I only brought up Mystery Babylon to show the folly of your reasoning behind the beast being a man. You said personal pronouns like he and him being applied to the beast show that the beast is a literal human man. Using that logic, we'd have to conclude that Mystery Babylon is a literal human woman because it refers to Babylon as "she" and "her". So, can you see how flawed your logic is now?

"Context" Your Reasoning And Comprehension Is Wrong, Scripture Clearly Explains The Woman Is "That Great City" And Not A Literal Woman

Revelation 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The Beast of Revelation chapter 13 below will be a "Individual Human Man" as Strongs clearly identifies below

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18KJV

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Truth7t7]

You did not specifically address his questions. Stop lying.

WPM was directly answered in post #5067 above, Truth7t7 isn't a "Liar" as you falsely claim in slander and defamation, I request that you stop the personal attacks

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

WPM was directly answered in post #5067 above, Truth7t7 isn't a "Liar" as you falsely claim in slander and defamation, I request that you stop the personal attacks

I will stop the personal attacks as soon as you stop lying. To try to claim that John wrote about the Olivet Discourse is a blatant lie. And you're also lying about specifically answering WPM's questions. I know you responded to his post, but not specifically in response to the questions he asked.

Here are the questions he asked:

(1) Surely we are now in “the times of the Gentiles”? If this is the case then the tribulation in view in our discussion must assuredly be an historic event, not a future hope.

Where did you answer this question? Are we now in the times of the Gentiles or not? If not, then what is your understanding of the times of the Gentiles? When does that begin and how long does it last?

(2) Do you believe that Israel will be "led away captive into all nations" after the second coming then?

Where did you answer this question? Do you believe that Israel will be "led away captive into all nations" after the second coming or not? Yes or no.

(3) Do you believe that "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” after the second coming?

Where did you answer this question? Is your answer yes or no?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"Context" Your Reasoning And Comprehension Is Wrong, Scripture Clearly Explains The Woman Is "That Great City" And Not A Literal Woman

Revelation 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The Beast of Revelation chapter 13 below will be a "Individual Human Man" as Strongs clearly identifies below

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18KJV

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

How old is this man who already "was" at the time John wrote the book of Revelation?

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

How did this man get into the bottomless pit and when will he come out of it?

 

[WPM]

Another robotic response from you. I can't take this anymore. If you ever decide that you want to actually have a back and forth discussion where you actually specifically address what is said to you, let me know.

You did not specifically address his questions. Stop lying.

Exactly. Everyone here is tired of his evasive cut-and-paste robotic responses. It gets old after a while. He is a master at evasion. I don't know why he posts here if you does not want to engage.

 

[WPM]

How old is this man who already "was" at the time John wrote the book of Revelation?

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

How did this man get into the bottomless pit and when will he come out of it?

LOL. Very good! The $64 million question is: will you ever get a direct response from robo response?

 

[WPM]

No name calling whatsoever as you falsely claim

You and Israelite believe and teach Matthew 24:15 (Daniel's AOD) and Matthew 24:21 (The Great Tribulation) are fulfilled, and the literal second coming of Jesus Christ is future, this belief and teaching is "Partial Preterist" in eschatology, its not going to change, I will repeat it again and again

I believe all three items mentioned above are future, I'm "Futurist" in my eschatology, it's that simple

Jesus Is The Lord

Robo:

Please stop avoiding these simple questions:

(1) Surely we are now in “the times of the Gentiles”? If this is the case then the tribulation in view in our discussion must assuredly be an historic event, not a future hope.
(2) Do you believe that Israel will be "led away captive into all nations" after the second coming then?
(3) Do you believe that "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” after the second coming?