22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Spiritual Israelite]

This would be a logical fallacy. Sacrifices are named in Scripture after Jesus returns to the earth. Whether or not anyone on earth understand why God would do this is beside the point.

Why would there be nothing in scripture stating what their purpose would be? Do you think that makes any sense? Be honest. Do you believe the following passage is referring to the animal sacrifices and offerings that you believe will be performed in the future?

Ezekiel 45:15 Also one sheep is to be taken from every flock of two hundred from the well-watered pastures of Israel. These will be used for the grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the people, declares the Sovereign Lord. 16 All the people of the land will be required to give this special offering to the prince in Israel. 17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites.

 

[Randy Kluth]

And one of us supported "our bit" with scripture while the other one didn't. I'm sure everyone here can see that.

Where does scripture do this? Why should I take you seriously if you can't provide any scripture to back up your beliefs?

I don't have to prove the sun comes up in the morning. It just does. I don't have to prove the human race continues as mortals after the 2nd Coming. Unless we are told this ends, we must assume it continues.

When we read about the thousand years following the 2nd Coming, we see that men rebel at the end of this period. Only mortals do that. We also read that the immortal saints, along with Christ, judge the world in the Age to Come. People who are ruled over are mortals.

But if you don't find this to be Scriptural, then we disagree. Simple.

 

[marks]

Why would there be nothing in scripture stating what their purpose would be? Do you think that makes any sense? Be honest. Do you believe the following passage is referring to the animal sacrifices and offerings that you believe will be performed in the future?

Oh, you be honest! ;)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jeremiah 31:31-37 KJV
31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

How much more specific could God be about who He was speaking concerning?

Much love!

There are also Old Testament passages that speak about God's promises that He made to Abraham and his seed. If we didn't have the NT we would assume that those promises applied to Abraham and his natural descendants of the nation of Israel, but Paul made it clear that the promises were made to Abraham and his seed, which is Christ (Gal 3:16) and apply to those who belong to Christ as well (Gal 3:29). So, you need to learn to allow the NT to explain what the OT prophecies really mean.

 

[marks]

There are also Old Testament passages that speak about God's promises that He made to Abraham and his seed. If we didn't have the NT we would assume that those promises applied to Abraham and his natural descendants of the nation of Israel, but Paul made it clear that the promises were made to Abraham and his seed, which is Christ (Gal 3:16) and apply to those who belong to Christ as well (Gal 3:29). So, you need to learn to allow the NT to explain what the OT prophecies really mean.

Compare the writing, and the specificity. It's not the same. What would God have to say to convince you?

IF the sun comes up tomorrow, this nation is still Mine. Nothing they can do will cause me to cast them away!

What would He have to say?

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't have to prove the sun comes up in the morning. It just does. I don't have to prove the human race continues as mortals after the 2nd Coming. Unless we are told this ends, we must assume it continues.

When we read about the thousand years following the 2nd Coming, we see that men rebel at the end of this period. Only mortals do that. We also read that the immortal saints, along with Christ, judge the world in the Age to Come. People who are ruled over are mortals.

But if you don't find this to be Scriptural, then we disagree. Simple.

If you can't find any scripture to support your interpretation of Revelation 20 and your belief that two separate kingdoms will be inherited at Christ's return (the one Paul referenced in 1 Cor 15:50 and some other one), then you should reconsider your interpretation of Revelation 20. Simple.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Compare the writing, and the specificity. It's not the same.

Please. This is a lame argument and you know it. If you read about God's promises to Abraham and his seed it definitely gives the impression that it's talking about Abraham's natural descendants rather than his spiritual descendants. How can you deny this?

What would God have to say to convince you?

Convince me of what? You need to be convinced that you can trust the New Testament to be true and it teaches something entirely different than your understanding of the Old Testament prophecies.

IF the sun comes up tomorrow, this nation is still Mine. Nothing they can do will cause me to cast them away!

What would He have to say?

What are you talking about? God hasn't ever cast them away. Don't you know that? Have you never read this:

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

So, seeing that God has never cast them away, what was the point you were trying to make here?

 

[WPM]

The House of Israel. The House of Judah. The Seed of Israel. How much more specific can God be?

Much love!

You are fighting NT truth with your faulty opinion of OT truth. It is time to finally abandon the old covenant and enter the liberty of the new covenant.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The House of Israel. The House of Judah. The Seed of Israel. How much more specific can God be?

Is there only one Israel? Paul taught otherwise in Romans 9:6-8. You have the wrong Israel in mind. WPM showed you this and you apparently ignored everything he said.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh, you be honest! ;)

Were my questions too difficult for you to answer? Is this your way of trying to get out of answering my questions?

 

[Truth7t7]

stop talking about this preterist reformed eschatology nonsense because it doesn't apply to me.

Of course your "Partial Preterist" in your eschatology, you believe and teach Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD and Matthew 25:21 The Great Tribulation has been "fulfilled" in the Olivet discourse

You believe Matthew 24:29-30 is future in the second coming

Your eschatology is 100% "Partial Preterist"

If you believed Matthew 24:29-30 in the second coming was fulfilled you would be "Full Preterist" a heretical belief in my opinion

I'm futurist on all three mentioned above, just as scripture teaches "Future Unfulfilled"

I'm not mistaken in my explantation, your ignorant of the facts surrounding "Preterism"

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

2 Thessalonians 2:4 references "the temple of God". what did Paul call the temple of the God in other scripture? He said it is us. The church. Why are you not letting scripture interpret scripture in this case?

The human "Man Of Sin" will be revealed in a literal future temple on earth, proclaiming to be God Messiah

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The "Man Of Sin" in (2 Thessalonians 2:4) doesn't inhabit "The Human (Bodies/Temples) Of The Church" that Are filled by God the Holy Spirit, As You "Falsely Claim", The Church Isn't Proclaiming To Be God

1 John 4:4KJV
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Colossians 1:12-13KJ
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

1 Corinthians 6:19-20KJV
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Romans 8:9-11KJV
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[Truth7t7]

That verse (2 Thess 2:4) is not talking about an individual man of sin, but rather sinful mankind in general.

Your claim is "False"

"Even Him" (The Man Of Sin) will be a literal human man who the Lord will destroy at the second coming

2 Thessalonians 2:8-9KJV
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

 

[Truth7t7]

This would be a logical fallacy. Sacrifices are named in Scripture after Jesus returns to the earth. Whether or not anyone on earth understand why God would do this is beside the point. The point is, the Bible says this will be so, though I know you reject the idea. Nonetheless, it's what the Bible says. Zechariah 14 is one place.

Will you acknowledge that someone does not need to explain why God would or would not do something, or have us do something, for that something to be valid?

That no one has to expain why there would be animal sacrifices offered in the kingdom, as some requirement of showing Biblically that these sacrifices will in fact be offered? Can you acknowedge that? I'm not trying trap you in a corner, I'm trying to free you from an invalid argument.

Much love!

Scripture states no such thing as animal blood sacrifice "After" the return of Jesus Christ a "False" claim

Zechariah chapter 14 is the (Day Of The Lord) showing the Eternal Kingdom after this takes place, Zechariah 14:8 below shows the river of life present "Eternal"

Zechariah 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

 

[marks]

You are fighting NT truth with your faulty opinion of OT truth. It is time to finally abandon the old covenant and enter the liberty of the new covenant.

You you you you you you and on and on it goes . . .

Much love

 

[marks]

Were my questions too difficult for you to answer? Is this your way of trying to get out of answering my questions?

No, I'm just tired of the all the loaded language. I'm sure you can figure out what I mean.

Much love!

 

[marks]

WPM showed you this and you apparently ignored everything he said.

And again, you you you you not interested.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Jeremiah 31:31-37 KJV
31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

How much more specific could God be about who He was speaking concerning?

Much love!

You ignore the fact that the prophecy surrounds the Babylonian Captivity and the return of Israel to Jerusalem

Its not a future event as you "fasley claim", you disregard the opening context trying desperately to build a future Zionist Kingdom on this earth, "Sad"!

Jesus Is The Lord

Jeremiah 30:1-4KJV
1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.

 

[marks]

You are fighting NT truth with your faulty opinion of OT truth. It is time to finally abandon the old covenant and enter the liberty of the new covenant.

And it's time you believed God's promises! They are great and precious promises!

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm saying what James said, that if you break one law you are a lawbreaker. And what Jesus said, that not the smallest letter or stroke of pen would pass away from the Law until all be fulfilled.

To answer your question, In Christ, we are dead to the Law.

And what is what Paul is saying in Colossians 2:14. You are trying to twist it to mean something entirely different because of doctrinal bias and no other reason.