22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

I agree, pushed into a corner of personal attacks and childish antics, because they have no other option, a Millennial Kingdom on this earth doesn't exist in scripture

Agreed. That is all we are getting lately. It is ridiculous. Mind you, if i was a Premil i would be frustrated with nothing having anything to bring to the table.

 

[Keraz]

First of all, it will never happen.

The Millennium reign of King Jeus WILL happen, it is God's reward to Jesus. Psalms 2:8
Why you and T7T must be so strongly in opposition to this plainly prophesied Bible truth, only you and your God knows.

Satan will again deceive many after he is released at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:7-10
It will be the final test for mankind, but many will reject Satan too, they comprise the camp of God's people. We have the warning of what God will do to those who reject Him and follow Satan.

The wicked will be judged eternally to the lake of fire in "conscious eternal torment"

I do not believe this and the Bible does not say it. The Bible does say the wicked people will be gone and will be remembered no more.

 

[Truth7t7]

I do not believe this and the Bible does not say it. The Bible does say the wicked people will be gone and will be remembered no more.

Yes you deny scriptural truth before you very eyes, as the forum is a witness to this fact

The wicked will be judged eternally to the lake of fire in "conscious eternal torment"

Revelation 20:14-15KJV
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Millennium reign of King Jeus WILL happen, it is God's reward to Jesus. Psalms 2:8
Why you and T7T must be so strongly in opposition to this plainly prophesied Bible truth, only you and your God knows.

Satan will again deceive many after he is released at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:7-10
It will be the final test for mankind, but many will reject Satan too, they comprise the camp of God's people. We have the warning of what God will do to those who reject Him and follow Satan.

I do not believe this and the Bible does not say it. The Bible does say the wicked people will be gone and will be remembered no more.

You mean Jesus will sit on a make believe throne created by Keraz's imagination, and be funeral director for those children dying at a 100 years old around him

"Big Smiles"!

 

[jeffweeder]

It will be the final test for mankind, but many will reject Satan too, they comprise the camp of God's people. We have the warning of what God will do to those who reject Him and follow Satan.

The Final test for mankind clearly occurs just prior to the second coming, when satan goes forth in all power of deception for those who believe the lie and are perishing.

2Thess 2
7 For the mystery of lawlessness [rebellion against divine authority and the coming reign of lawlessness] is already at work; [but it is restrained] only until he who now restrains it is taken out of the way. 8 Then the lawless one [the Antichrist] will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by the appearance of His coming. 9 The coming of the [Antichrist, the lawless] one is through the activity of Satan, [attended] with great power [all kinds of counterfeit miracles] and [deceptive] signs and false wonders [all of them lies], 10 and by unlimited seduction to evil and with all the deception of wickedness for those who are perishing, because they did not welcome the love of the truth [of the gospel] so as to be saved [they were spiritually blind, and rejected the truth that would have saved them].

11 Because of this God will send upon them a misleading influence, [an activity of error and deception] so they will believe the lie, 12 in order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe the truth [about their sin, and the need for salvation through Christ], but instead took pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we should and are [morally] obligated [as debtors] always to give thanks to God for you, believers beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through the sanctifying work of the Spirit [that sets you apart for God’s purpose] and by your faith in the truth [of God’s word that leads you to spiritual maturity]. 14 It was to this end that He called you through our gospel [the good news of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection], so that you may obtain and share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No idols. I love the truth and it is that that you have an issue with. Continue your campaign of hate if you wish but it doesn't bother me one bit. I don't see it gaining any support for your arguments - venting never does. It just adds credence to your opponents.

Oh, I'm sure you're lying. When you stir up brothers, you can't, as a Christian, feel good about it. Your idea of "truth" is argument, and not God's love. When you discover that, you will be a much better person. But you're not receptive to criticism.

 

[Randy Kluth]

It’s like asking your child Linda, what did you learn in Sunday school...
And Linda says.... Sally doesn’t like to sit by Bobby, and Bobby’s likes hamburgers but doesn’t like cheeseburgers and argues with everyone who does like cheeseburgers because Jesus didn’t eat cheeseburgers and Bobby’s g-g-g-g-g-great grandfather believed that hell was not a geographical place so Bobby doesn’t like people who believe in hell is a place and Susie was mad because she broke her fingernail that her mom had just polished, which means Bobby thinks Susie is probably a devil lover anyway because she on nail polish.....
AND? You say, Did you learn anything about Jesus?
AND? Linda says, I already told you....you are so dumb....
Jesus didn’t eat cheeseburgers.

That’s about how I see his posts.... nonsense.

Yes, I ran into him on a previous forum, and it's the same old WPM. Never been kind to his opponents. Always "knows" he's right. And anybody who dares to cross him, they become the recipient of, "You duck around the argument. You have nothing." Etc. I've had enough of him. I'm now telling him how I really feel about his Christianity, and he's threatening to turn me off. I'm overjoyed! ;)

 

[Truth7t7]

Oh, I'm sure you're lying. When you stir up brothers, you can't, as a Christian, feel good about it. Your idea of "truth" is argument, and not God's love. When you discover that, you will be a much better person. But you're not receptive to criticism.

The person not receptive to correction/criticism is Randy

As you continue to espouse a false Zionist Kingdom on this earth, when you have been shown scriptural truth that its non-existant

Randy's idea of truth is built in personal desires and wants, not scriptural truth

 

[WPM]

Oh, I'm sure you're lying. When you stir up brothers, you can't, as a Christian, feel good about it. Your idea of "truth" is argument, and not God's love. When you discover that, you will be a much better person. But you're not receptive to criticism.

You are the one stirred up and embittered. Don't put that on anyone else. Don't speak on others behalf. I do not give a hoot about your criticism. It is you that is thin-skinned and filled with ad-hominem. I have witnessed your taunts and false charges for years.

 

[WPM]

The person not receptive to correction/criticism is Randy

As you continue to espouse a false Zionist Kingdom on this earth, when you have been shown scriptural truth that its non-existant

Randy's idea of truth is built in personal desires and wants, not scriptural truth

Exactly! Amen bro! Go through his posts to me and read the venom he spews out on these threads. It is ridiculous for a professing Christian. He's only here to filibuster. He has no answer to any of the arguments.

 

[Keraz]

The Final test for mankind clearly occurs just prior to the second coming, when satan goes forth in all power of deception for those who believe the lie and are perishing.

Read Revelation 19:17-21; that describes the Battle of Armageddon.
Read Revelation 20:7-10, the Battle after the Millennium.

Then admit they are different events, a thousand years apart.

You mean Jesus will sit on a make believe throne created by Keraz's imagination, and be funeral director for those children dying at a 100 years old around him

This is the sort of rude comment, of opinion made in a scathing and nasty style, that should never be posted on a Christian forum.
This type of post, bereft of scriptural support and with personal accusations, demonstrates very clearly the heart and the agenda of the poster.

You and all who make post of this kind, should leave the forum to those who want to have reasonable discussions.

 

[Taken]

Yes, I ran into him on a previous forum, and it's the same old WPM. Never been kind to his opponents. Always "knows" he's right. And anybody who dares to cross him, they become the recipient of, "You duck around the argument. You have nothing." Etc. I've had enough of him. I'm now telling him how I really feel about his Christianity, and he's threatening to turn me off. I'm overjoyed! ;)

The thing is Randy, I rather doubt it is common for two individuals to believe the exact same about every subject.
Path and Individual...I am content with my chosen path, and know the effort, depth and distance I travel on the path. Sometimes I see a brother on the same path, Sometimes an individual genuinely pondering if they want to walk on the same path, Sometimes others running outside of the path shooting arrows at the straight path travelers....

No matter, they are already overcome. The Lord is With and In me, Fitted with the Armor of God, no worries!
Not a mystery to observe in the media, forums, in person “others intent” to gain a brother in Christ or “tactics” to shoot arrows at others who reject “following them”!

Those In Christ are already established and secure.
Regarding Precepts, love everyone, mingle with everyone, know who is your brother and know who is your enemy. Fellowship with your brethren. Pray for your brethren and enemies.

I get ya, mingling with an obtuse enemy runs its gambit rather quickly.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Not really. It's all rather vague to be honest.
Show me where the Lord Jesus in his own words teaches a pretrib rapture.

Why?

Paul taught according to the Lords own word...,

You request I show you the Lord Jesus’ own Word, then present Paul’s teaching “according to” the Lords own Word...

What did Jesus say about his coming?
Shouldn't be too hard for you to find.

Shouldn’t be too hard for you to find, IF you desire and apply yourself.
If you don’t own a Bible, get one.
If you can’t read, get a Bible on disc for someone to read to you.
If wondering about this forum, there are plenty of threads on this forum, About the Lords deliverance FROM Gods Wrath, Who it applies to and Why, as well as;
The Lord God Almighty’s omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresence in the Last Days of The Lord God Almighty Separating the Divided with Him From the Divided without Him, and the End of manKINDS mortality and End of evil spirits intrusion.

While you're at it tell me where he taught Premill using those scriptures where he teaches us about his own coming.

While you’re at it you seek what you desire to find!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CadyandZoe]

Wrong! You are fighting with Jesus and you are fighting with Scripture. Your Pharisaical hope is misplaced.

Your approach to discussion is clear evidence that you remain uncertain of your own position.

You should learn from their mistake and learn from history. There is nothing new under the sun!

Does your use of platitudes indicate your inability to make a cogent argument? I think so.

They missed the boat with their faulty hope.

The kingdom of God, which Christ continually spoke of, related not to a physical Jewish kingdom that could be viewed with human sight.

Once again, a kingdom filled with the followers of Jesus isn't incompatible with a physical Jewish kingdom.

The kingdom of God relates to the unseen realm where the people are governed by their mediator King.

So conversion results in invisibility? Haha funny. The kingdom of God is always visible. Jesus said "the kingdom of God is within you" he mean "among you" because the head of the Kingdom was standing right in front of the Pharisees.

Premil denies Christ His current kingship over His spiritual domain with its constant future focus upon the kinship of Christ.

You are mistaken. Of course our premillennial brothers and sisters believe that Jesus is king of his spiritual domain. What they deny is that Jesus is ruling over the world right now.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The person not receptive to correction/criticism is Randy

As you continue to espouse a false Zionist Kingdom on this earth, when you have been shown scriptural truth that its non-existant

Randy's idea of truth is built in personal desires and wants, not scriptural truth

Perhaps you're as bad as PM--I don't know. You seem to have adopted his arrogant spirit, and insulting style. I do hope you'll do what PM has failed to do, which is be a Christian brother and treat Christian brothers accordingly, regardless of these minor differences?

 

[Marty fox]

Read Revelation 19:17-21; that describes the Battle of Armageddon.
Read Revelation 20:7-10, the Battle after the Millennium.

Then admit they are different events, a thousand years apart.

This is the sort of rude comment, of opinion made in a scathing and nasty style, that should never be posted on a Christian forum.
This type of post, bereft of scriptural support and with personal accusations, demonstrates very clearly the heart and the agenda of the poster.

You and all who make post of this kind, should leave the forum to those who want to have reasonable discussions.

How is Revelation 19 the battle of Armageddon when the term Armageddon isn't even mentioned?

The battle at Armageddon is only mentioned in revelation 16 when the beast destroys Babylon the great. Revelation 19 is the defeat of the beast and false prophet by Jesus. Two completely different events with two completely different outcomes.

 

[CadyandZoe]

How is Revelation 19 the battle of Armageddon when the term Armageddon isn't even mentioned?

The battle at Armageddon is only mentioned in revelation 16 when the beast destroys Babylon the great. Revelation 19 is the defeat of the beast and false prophet by Jesus. Two completely different events with two completely different outcomes.

Good question.

 

[Marty fox]

Good question.

Thanks.

We need to get past traditional thinking and teaching and actually read what the bible actually says.

 

[amigo de christo]

The thing is Randy, I rather doubt it is common for two individuals to believe the exact same about every subject.
Path and Individual...I am content with my chosen path, and know the effort, depth and distance I travel on the path. Sometimes I see a brother on the same path, Sometimes an individual genuinely pondering if they want to walk on the same path, Sometimes others running outside of the path shooting arrows at the straight path travelers....

No matter, they are already overcome. The Lord is With and In me, Fitted with the Armor of God, no worries!
Not a mystery to observe in the media, forums, in person “others intent” to gain a brother in Christ or “tactics” to shoot arrows at others who reject “following them”!

Those In Christ are already established and secure.
Regarding Precepts, love everyone, mingle with everyone, know who is your brother and know who is your enemy. Fellowship with your brethren. Pray for your brethren and enemies.

I get ya, mingling with an obtuse enemy runs its gambit rather quickly.

Glory to God,
Taken

Not quite the same mindset paul once had . His message was let their be NO , ZERO , as in none , divisions among you .
Be LIKE MINDED . Like minded about what , about just lovey and have us some unity . WRONG
about the doctrines JESUS delivered and the apostels delivered .
IT aint impossible for folks to come to the same conclusion about truth , about the words of the LORD about HIS teachings .
MEN say it is , but men are not GOD . I know of some who by the grace of GOD , the reading of the bible
are coming to FAST AGREEMENT of what they taught . THE KEY IS , do we heed men or do we heed GOD .
That BE THE KEY . IF we heed GOD , if we heed Christ , then why do we heed men who twist and omit
the plain truth in scriptures . VERY delusional times we live in .
The bible is our friend not an enemy which cannot be trusted lest a man reveal its truth to us .
If so , we are no better off than the CC or the JW or many within the protestant realm itself .
The bible aint a rubix cube that only scholars can understand .
How come so many often strive over words and meanings of words . WELL TO JUSTIFY a teaching that often does contradict
what the very scriptures in simplicity said . How come we cant just believe what was written , its not like
Ya GOTTA REMEMBER that if a man cometh and tries to teach us that certain things no longer apply , THEY DEAD WRONG .
IF i told you when paul said that we are not to lie to one another and then said , HEY that applied to only that generation
WOULDNT YOU KNOW i was a liar .
SO how come when folks say WOMEN OUGHT NOT to teach or ursurp authority
that paul himself did not allow women to lead the church
DO WE SO QUICKLY LISTEN TO THEIR BD .
OR if a man comes and tries to twist any other doctrine , WHY DO WE HEED IT .
I will tell us all why one heeds such a thing . THEY SERVE THE GOD OF FLESH . NOT GOD .
The bible , the letters written by the apostels were not written in a code that only scholars could grasp ,
THEY WAS WRITTEN TO SIMPLE MEN . OH HOW I pray folks figure that one out real fast .

 

[Truth7t7]

Read Revelation 19:17-21; that describes the Battle of Armageddon.
Read Revelation 20:7-10, the Battle after the Millennium.

Then admit they are different events, a thousand years apart.

This is the sort of rude comment, of opinion made in a scathing and nasty style, that should never be posted on a Christian forum.
This type of post, bereft of scriptural support and with personal accusations, demonstrates very clearly the heart and the agenda of the poster.

You and all who make post of this kind, should leave the forum to those who want to have reasonable discussions.

Same Battle In "Parallel" Teachings, Minus Your Make Believe 1,000 Year Kingdom On This Earth That Won't Take Place

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.