22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Truth7t7]

it is this idea that Amill supports with its false belief that there is no literal reign on earth by Jesus AFTER His future coming. This is why they dump the "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect after His future return, per Rev.20. They want us to wrongly believe that Lord Jesus is reigning over the earth now, from Heaven.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[marks]

Zechariah 14:9-21 KJV
9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10) All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11) And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12) And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13) And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14) And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15) And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16) And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17) And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18) And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19) This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20) In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21) Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

 

[WPM]

Um…I don’t think the wicked do escape the wrath of God. I think they’re burnt up right before the new earth…

I’m not sure where you get the third group of people from?

If that is so, who are these mortal humans Premils talk about and how do they enter your future millennium? They cannot be the righteous as they are rescued and glorified when Jesus comes. They escape the wrath of God.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What do you think would be the purpose of a time of "greatly improved living for a thousand years" after the return of Christ? Keep in mind what happens after the thousand years as recorded in Revelation 20:7-9 when answering the question.

Im not actually sure of what Gods purpose for those thousand years is. I could only guess.

 

[marks]

Micah 4:1-7 KJV
1) But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2) And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3) And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4) But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
5) For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
6) In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;
7) And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.

 

[WPM]

Zechariah 14:9-21 KJV
9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10) All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11) And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12) And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13) And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14) And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15) And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16) And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17) And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18) And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19) This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20) In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21) Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

1. Surely the Jerusalem Premils portray in their alleged future millennium is altogether different to the one depicted in Zechariah 14:2 that is being attacked, “the houses rifled,” and “the women ravished”?
2. How can women in the millennium be "ravished" (or raped) when no one in Jerusalem is even mortal anymore (Zechariah 14:2)?
3. Zechariah 14:2-3, tells us that the result of the attack of the nations against Jerusalem is that “half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.” Surely this contradicts the whole Premillennial portrayal of Jerusalem during the millennium? This surely runs contrary to the perfect pristine peaceful Jerusalem Premils like to present in their literature, where Israel is exalted to a racially privileged position for 1,000 years?
4. How then can Jerusalem prosper when half of its population are dead and the other half are prisoners restrained by chains? I thought this was a glorious time for the city?
5. How can Premils reconcile their conflicting “proof-texts” that in one breath teach that “every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zechariah 14:16-17) and “the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD” (Isaiah 56:6-7) yet in the next breath at the exact same time because Jerusalem is a "holy" place, a prohibition is placed on all Gentiles that "there shall no strangers pass through her any more" (Joel 3:17) and “No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel” (Ezekiel 44:9)?
6. If Zechariah 14 and Joel 3 relate to the second coming (as Premils argue) then we have another contradiction: how can we have Egypt still existing in Zechariah 14:17-19 when Joel 3 clearly demonstrates that “Egypt shall be a desolation” (v19)? How does Premil magically raise this rebellious nation?

 

[WPM]

Micah 4:1-7 KJV
1) But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2) And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3) And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4) But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
5) For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
6) In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;
7) And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.

When did "the last days" begin? When do they end? When is "the last day" of "the last days"?

 

[marks]

Ezekiel 36:23-38 KJV
23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
29) I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30) And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
32) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
33) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
34) And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
35) And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.
36) Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.
37) Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.
38) As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

 

[marks]

Surely the Jerusalem Premils portray in their alleged future millennium is altogether different to the one depicted in Zechariah 14:2 that is being attacked, “the houses rifled,” and “the women ravished”?

Zechariah 14:1-5 KJV
1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5) And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Context shows sequence.

Much love!

 

[marks]

How can women in the millennium be "ravished" (or raped) when no one in Jerusalem is even mortal anymore (Zechariah 14:2)?

Same answer as above.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Zechariah 14:2-3, tells us that the result of the attack of the nations against Jerusalem is that “half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.” Surely this contradicts the whole Premillennial portrayal of Jerusalem during the millennium? This surely runs contrary to the perfect pristine peaceful Jerusalem Premils like to present in their literature, where Israel is exalted to a racially privileged position for 1,000 years?

Again, same answer as above . . .

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If that is so, who are these mortal humans Premils talk about and how do they enter your future millennium? They cannot be the righteous as they are rescued and glorified when Jesus comes. They escape the wrath of God.

Well…I think some of them are humans who survive the great tribulation and don’t take the mark because they come to believe, either by seeing things take place they heard of or by the preaching of the two witnesses, some are those who were left behind not counted worthy to escape it but needing more testing of their trust. I also think those who were found worthy to escape that time of trouble are there, along with all others who were resurrected in the first resurrection. I think these will rule and reign with Christ and are no longer mortal.

 

[marks]

How then can Jerusalem prosper when half of its population are dead and the other half are prisoners restrained by chains? I thought this was a glorious time for the city?

. . . these are all the same question.

Zechariah 14:1-5 KJV
1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5) And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

These things you are naming all are before Jesus delivers Israel.

Much love!

 

[WPM]

Again, same answer as above . . .

Much love!

You are not addressing the contradictions, as they expose Premil. Your continued avoidance is doing nothing to advance your case.

 

[marks]

How can Premils reconcile their conflicting “proof-texts” that in one breath teach that “every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zechariah 14:16-17) and “the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD” (Isaiah 56:6-7) yet in the next breath at the exact same time because Jerusalem is a "holy" place, a prohibition is placed on all Gentiles that "there shall no strangers pass through her any more" (Joel 3:17) and “No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel” (Ezekiel 44:9)?

What is your issue exactly? Yes, all nations will be required to attend, and no, no one uncircumcised shall enter the temple. I don't know why that should cause any confusion.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If Zechariah 14 and Joel 3 relate to the second coming (as Premils argue) then we have another contradiction: how can we have Egypt still existing in Zechariah 14:17-19 when Joel 3 clearly demonstrates that “Egypt shall be a desolation” (v19)? How does Premil magically raise this rebellious nation?

Have you seen before in the Bible that nations can be judged, and are desolate, for a period of time? I have myself. If you are not familiar with this I could point you to some instances.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The Premil millennium has a real identity issue. It is totally confusing. It is a supposed hybrid age that is not taught anywhere in the inspired text. When Premils are pushed they cannot show anywhere in Revelation 20 that teaches a "greatly improved ... thousand years." It can only be found in the writings of its advocates. Where is this mongrel age that is supposedly greater than this age but worse than the NHNE taught anywhere in Scripture?

Well, it’s not taken just from one passage. It’s gotten here and there in prophecy, both old and new testaments.

 

[Truth7t7]

Zechariah 14:9-21 KJV
9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10) All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11) And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12) And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13) And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14) And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15) And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16) And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17) And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18) And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19) This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20) In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21) Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

Why didn't you include Zechariah 14:8?

The "Eternal River Of Life" is seen flowing from New Jerusalem, also seen in Revelation 22:1

"The Eternal Kingdom"

Zechariah 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

 

[WPM]

Well…I think some of them are humans who survive the great tribulation and don’t take the mark because they come to believe, either by seeing things take place they heard of or by the preaching of the two witnesses, some are those who were left behind not counted worthy to escape it but needing more testing of their trust. I also think those who were found worthy to escape that time of trouble are there, along with all others who were resurrected in the first resurrection. I think these will rule and reign with Christ and are no longer mortal.

Really?

But everyone who is not in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the earth take the mark of the beast (Revelation 13:8 and 17:8). What is more, if they are found worthy to escape the wrath of God, why are they not glorified like all of the rest of the saints? Are you inventing different levels or grades of saints? like the JWs?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not actually sure of what Gods purpose for those thousand years is. I could only guess.

Do you think that scripture doesn't say anything about the purpose of that significant time period?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The Premil millennium has a real identity issue. It is totally confusing. It is a supposed hybrid age that is not taught anywhere in the inspired text. When Premils are pushed they cannot show anywhere in Revelation 20 that teaches a "greatly improved ... thousand years." It can only be found in the writings of its advocates. Where is this mongrel age that is supposedly greater than this age but worse than the NHNE taught anywhere in Scripture?

I do agree that not much description or detail of that thousand years is given in that particular passage. It just doesn’t go into it but just affirms that it occurs, a thousand years.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But everyone who is not in the Lambs book of life from the foundation of the earth take the mark of the beast (Revelation 13:8 and 17:8).

Correct. Those people take the mark.