22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[CadyandZoe]

Ok. What leads you to this conclusion?

First of all, I could be wrong and I am willing to be corrected. But I see a strong correlation between the events of 70AD and the seals.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Scripture clearly identifies the time-times-half a time as being "Literal" 1260 days or 3.5 years

You don't want to acknowledge this future 3.5 year tribulation, because you believe and teach it was fulfilled in the reformed preterist 66-70AD Roman armies in Jerusalem's destruction

Blah blah blah. You're a broken record.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If we are talking about resurrection, I think Lazarus was resurrected before Jesus. If we are talking about eternal life, Jesus was the first to receive eternal life. I agree.

Jesus was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality. That's what Acts 26:23 is talking about when it says He was the first to rise from the dead.

And, what are you talking about when you say "Jesus was the first to receive eternal life"? Are you referring to Him being the first to have an eternal body? If so, you understand that He was resurrected first before that happened, right? Do you agree that He was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality?

 

[CadyandZoe]

What do you mean "Jesus was the first to receive eternal life." Are you saying that he needed to be saved like you and me?

Yes, that is what Paul teaches. He was the firstborn of all creation.

 

[Keraz]

I see a strong correlation between the events of 70AD and the seals.

The first five Seals, yes.
The Sixth and Seventh Seals, no.
We have yet to see the cosmic signs and dramatic events of the Lords terrible Day of vengeance and wrath.

We must abandon the Premill doctrine, but take care to replace it with soundly based Bible teachings. All the events from Revelation 6:12 to Revelation 19:10 must take place before Jesus Returns.
We Christian people are in for a very interesting time. We should be ready to stand strong in our faith thru it all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

mmm….yeah, I kind of do. The thing that comes to my mind concerning it is…Babylon, commercial Babylon, falling and collapsing in one hour. I do kind of see it as a possibility. I mean, a lot of stuff goes into commercial collapse, over time, but…it’s sort of like holding tremendous credit card debt for a long period of time, years and years, but when the point comes where you can no longer maintain it, your house of cards collapses utterly, all at once.

Here is the verse in question (I think I had said verse 10, but it's verse 12):

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

You're trying to tell me that the ten horns who have not yet received a kingdom will only be in power for literally 60 minutes once they do "receive power as kings one hour with the beast"? What could they possibly achieve in only 60 minutes? Is this your final answer? Are you sure you want to just assume that it's being literal there?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, that is what Paul teaches. He was the firstborn of all creation.

I've had it with your false teaching and blasphemy. I'm not going to tolerate this. You need to stop. Jesus is God. He was not created and He did not need to be saved like the rest of us. That would imply He was a sinner like the rest of us! Are you kidding me?! Stop this nonsense!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Jesus was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality. That's what Acts 26:23 is talking about when it says He was the first to rise from the dead.

And, what are you talking about when you say "Jesus was the first to receive eternal life"? Are you referring to Him being the first to have an eternal body? If so, you understand that He was resurrected first before that happened, right? Do you agree that He was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality?

I don't know what you mean.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don’t know. Maybe. Treaties are put in place all the time that collapse. Is it completely impossible that things get bad enough that men make a treaty and something occurs to void the treaty an hour after they sit at a table and sign it? Of course it’s not impossible.

LOL. But, is it reasonable to think that is what Revelation 17:12 is saying? I don't believe so at all. Do you have something against the idea of time periods being represented figuratively in scripture or something? In a book like Revelation, why would you not allow for that possibility? That makes no sense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't know what you mean.

What exactly are you not understanding about what I said? Are you familiar with the concept of immortal bodies as Paul wrote about in 1 Corinthians 15?

 

[Keraz]

I've had it with your false teaching and blasphemy. I'm not going to tolerate this. You need to stop. Jesus is God. He was not created and He did not need to be saved like the rest of us. That would imply He was a sinner like the rest of us! Are you kidding me?! Stop this nonsense!

This is a disgusting and unchristian accusation, falsely made as C & Z are correct. Jesus was God's Firstborn. Proverbs 8:22-31

You refuse to be corrected, you jump to wrong conclusions and you accuse and abuse the brethren. God help you!

 

[WPM]

This is a disgusting and unchristian accusation, falsely made as C & Z are correct. Jesus was God's Firstborn. Proverbs 8:22-31

You refuse to be corrected, you jump to wrong conclusions and you accuse and abuse the brethren. God help you!

Is Jesus God?

 

[The Light]

You are actually describing Premillennialism. It is you that has zero corroboration for your opinion of that much-debated single chapter in the most obscure setting in Scripture. You have nothing else in the Word of God. If you had, you would give it.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, NO. That would be Amill.

And what are you talking about as far as needing scripture. I have supplied scripture, after scripture, after scripture in other threads that proves what you are pushing is nonsense. What good does that do if the blind can't see?

 

[RLT63]

Can you give us one single proof text in the whole of Scripture that teaches that there will be "sin offerings in the future" that will "be symbolic of the sacrifice Jesus made"? I am talking about "one." This looks to me like another Premil invention that enjoys no biblical support.

There are several passages in the Old Testament that clearly indicate animal sacrifice will be re-instituted during the millennial kingdom. Some passages mention it in passing as the topic of the millennial kingdom is discussed, passages like Isaiah 56:6-8; Zechariah 14:16; and Jeremiah 33:15-18.

The passage that is the most extensive, giving the greatest detail, is Ezekiel 43:18-46:24. It should be noted that this is part of a greater passage dealing with the millennial kingdom, a passage that begins with Ezekiel 40. In Ezekiel 40, the Lord begins to give details of the temple that will exist during the millennial kingdom, a temple that dwarfs all other temples previously built, even Herod’s temple that was quite large, which existed during the earthly ministry of Christ.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I've had it with your false teaching and blasphemy. I'm not going to tolerate this. You need to stop. Jesus is God. He was not created and He did not need to be saved like the rest of us. That would imply He was a sinner like the rest of us! Are you kidding me?! Stop this nonsense!

You need to be clear with your questions then. I never said or suggested that Jesus was a sinner. But eventually you might come to understand that salvation is more than forgiveness. I realize how difficult it is for you to admit that Jesus was a man, with all the limitations of this existence. Death is a reality for all of us, just as it was for our Savior. God the Father raised him from the dead so that he might be the firstborn of all creation.

 

[Keraz]

Is Jesus God?

Do fish live in the ocean?
Your beliefs have been refuted, so your only recourse is to attempt to trap me.

Ezekiel 43:18-46:24. It should be noted that this is part of a greater passage dealing with the millennial kingdom,

Actually Ezekiel 40 to 48, deals entirely with the true Israelites of God, the faithful Christian peoples, BEFORE Jesus Returns.
Proved by how they have a leader who has children. Ezekiel 46:16 Elected by the people; Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21

They will make sacrifices and offerings in the new Temple which they will build. As God requires.
To deny and reject these plain Bible statements, is - to put it bluntly, a sin.

 

[RLT63]

Do fish live in the ocean?
Your beliefs have been refuted, so your only recourse is to attempt to trap me.

Actually Ezekiel 40 to 48, deals entirely with the true Israelites of God, the faithful Christian peoples, BEFORE Jesus Returns.
Proved by how they have a leader who has children. Ezekiel 46:16 Elected by the people; Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21

They will make sacrifices and offerings in the new Temple which they will build. As God requires.
To deny and reject these plain Bible statements, is - to put it bluntly, a sin.

You think you are right and to not share your view is a sin. WPM thinks he's right and to not share his view is blasphemy. So which one is right ?

 

[WPM]

Do fish live in the ocean?
Your beliefs have been refuted, so your only recourse is to attempt to trap me.

How is it a trap asking a basic fundamental question. Stop avoiding: is Jesus God?

Actually Ezekiel 40 to 48, deals entirely with the true Israelites of God, the faithful Christian peoples, BEFORE Jesus Returns.
Proved by how they have a leader who has children. Ezekiel 46:16 Elected by the people; Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21

They will make sacrifices and offerings in the new Temple which they will build. As God requires.
To deny and reject these plain Bible statements, is - to put it bluntly, a sin.

1. Do you believe these sin offerings will make atonement for the priests and the altar in your future millennium?
2. Do you believe these sin offerings will reconcile the house of Israel in your future millennium?
3. Do you believe these sin offerings will sanctify the house of Israel in your future millennium?

 

[WPM]

You think you are right and to not share your view is a sin. WPM thinks he's right and to not share his view is blasphemy. So which one is right ?

What is very telling over this past few days is the complete silence of Premils when their fellow Premils are denying the Deity of Christ. This silence is deafening. It says it all. All you can do is attack those who are attacking heresy and blasphemy.

 

[WPM]

There are several passages in the Old Testament that clearly indicate animal sacrifice will be re-instituted during the millennial kingdom. Some passages mention it in passing as the topic of the millennial kingdom is discussed, passages like Isaiah 56:6-8; Zechariah 14:16; and Jeremiah 33:15-18.

The passage that is the most extensive, giving the greatest detail, is Ezekiel 43:18-46:24. It should be noted that this is part of a greater passage dealing with the millennial kingdom, a passage that begins with Ezekiel 40. In Ezekiel 40, the Lord begins to give details of the temple that will exist during the millennial kingdom, a temple that dwarfs all other temples previously built, even Herod’s temple that was quite large, which existed during the earthly ministry of Christ.

How about actually showing us where any of these Old Testament passages mention a future millennium? Premillennial theology forces the thousand years into numerous passages where it does not exist. That is called adding on to Scripture. That is because it is a man-made doctrine. Amillennialists present clear Scripture after Scripture from the New Testament relating to the new covenant and the rebuttal is passage after passage from the Old Testament relating to the abolished old covenant. It is time for you to let go of your cherished old covenant and embrace the cross.