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  1. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Ok…well, let’s see, shall we? I said “the bible teaches that when Christ returns we see all those things described at one time. Resurrection bodies, the wicked being judged, the earth and heavens being dissolved in fire which usher in the eternal heavens and earth where sin and death are no...
  2. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    You know, I have not heard that interpretation of Dan 12:11 before. And I would have to agree that it is more likely than going back to the types and shadows. Not only would that not make sense in terms of God’s progressive plan of salvation, but, like you said, it would become an abomination...
  3. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    I’m sorry, but…huh? How on earth do you suppose we get ‘God created the sun, moon and stars’…as ‘God created the angels here’…? This is such a stretch not even Gumby would try. And, when added to the passage in Job that outright TELLS us that the ‘morning stars’ and ‘the sons of God’ (regardless...
  4. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    I of course, apologise if I have misrepresented you or misunderstood you. However; In post #730 you state that: “Eve was taken out of Adam not even in the image of God. Of course if she was equal to Adam she would be an equal son of God in God's image..” With this statement you seem to be...
  5. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Oh boy. SO much supposition here, I feel like I need that word on a hot key. Supposition - that the 144000 are given permanent incorruptible bodies, while still on earth. By the way, how can they be ‘not glorified’ when also given resurrected bodies? That makes no sense. Supposition - when they...
  6. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Again…an idea NOT found in scripture. Revelation 20:12, 15 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had...
  7. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Ah…no. No you didn’t say “in principle”. Here is what you said: “Look at it as the Lamb's book of life. Every human ever conceived is written in the Lamb's book of life.” Why do people have such trouble with the term/idea of ‘literal’? No…I am NOT using the tree symbolism as if it is...
  8. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    How can the ‘millennium’ not be considered as ‘intermediate’? If ‘this age’ ends at Christ’s second coming, all the things that come with it (resurrected bodies being given, the wicked judged) and then we move into a new time period where other things are apparently described (the earth...
  9. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    But where? Where does it SAY this? Where can we find anywhere in the NT even a hint of this? Every passage we look at since Christ came tells us those barriers have been broken down in Christ. How…where…do you suggest we look for evidence elsewhere? If we cannot understand the OT…the types and...
  10. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Should our differences be based on what system we hold? Should it not be on what the texts say or do not say? I understand one naturally gravitates to a certain system or not, but I just fear the moment we start assessing scripture though a ‘system lense’ we run the risk of bringing bias to the...
  11. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    The ‘god image’? Are you speaking of ‘made in the image’ or ‘sons of god’ (elohim)? Because, as you know, I disagree that humans are ‘sons of God’. We are children of God through adoption, yes. Thus we get to call him ‘Abba, father!’ But repeatedly scripture applies ‘sons of God’ to divine...
  12. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    I cannot agree to this. The bible is both replete and clear when it speaks to faith…. Romans 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. Habakkuk 2:4 “Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him, but...
  13. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Okay…I think I must make 2 points here. The first is how we understand ‘salvation’ in the OT, and the second is the idea of about reverting to types and shadows. We know that because Christ had not yet come in the OT, that they could not directly place their faith in him and his atoning work...
  14. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    I see what you’re saying, but still confess to struggling over how you ‘allow the passages to just say’ seemingly opposite things. Do you mind me asking how you harmonise the below passages if you see both at ‘face value’? Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And...
  15. Naomi25

    Faith-based tattoo: as a result of one, did you ever talk with someone? (Poll included)

    Nope! She was going to come down in January, but had to postpone her trip. We’ll be seeing her in May. Now…let’s hope when I DO see her, I don’t forget to ask about it!
  16. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Well, I suppose we can agree to disagree! You may even be right. I don’t see it in scripture, but I’m hardly going to be disappointed if I am, am I?!
  17. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Yes…I think I must. For many reasons, actually. The first would be how the bible describes the various ‘ages’. The NT consistently refers to ‘this age’ and ‘the age to come’. And when we look at those two phrases, we see that ‘this age’ is always temporal, physical, sinful, fallen, broken. ‘The...
  18. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Now, now. If we’re taking scripture at face value, then I’m sorry….humans created on Day 6 is NOT them being present at “the laying of the foundations of the earth”. Let’s remember what happened on Day 1 - “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” Day 6 is not Day 1.
  19. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Spare me your disdain. The idea that women do not have the same inherent value afforded to all humanity is both unbiblical and absurd. And pretending like I’m wringing my hands like a soy boy over it is misleading. Should I not be bothered by your blatant heretical claims, it would prove my own...
  20. Naomi25

    The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Galatians 3:7-9 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed...