The Coming Rapture

[PinSeeker]

I don't think you qualify to lecture me...

I'm not doing anything of the sort, SI. I was very all-inclusive with my comments:

• "the same can be said of us all"
• "not aimed at anyone in particular but applies to us all"
• "for any one of us to attribute that to and/or to disparage or tear down any one here..."
• "How we conduct ourselves..."
• "I think we should all be far more concerned about..."

He talks the same way.

Yes. <smile>

He's fine with it.

Well, probably not, but even so, that makes it okay for anyone to speak in... said ways... to him or anyone else? No...

That doesn't mean I should talk to someone else that way who actually has an open mind and is more sensitive than him. I understand that. It depends on the person.

Ah, so your assessment of the character or lack thereof ~ using yourself as the standard, obviously ~ regarding another person determines how you speak to him or her. Hmmm...

But., you go ahead and keep your holier than thou attitude if you want.

Well, I don't "want"... But yeah, think what you will, for sure.

I can't stop you.

Nor I you.

By the way, I knew you would react the way you have. Which... seems like a self-acknowledgment of guilt, and in that sense would be a good thing... if acted upon well... which again, is applicable to all of us. <smile>
,
Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not doing anything of the sort, SI. I was very all-inclusive with my comments:

• "the same can be said of us all"
• "not aimed at anyone in particular but applies to us all"
• "for any one of us to attribute that to and/or to disparage or tear down any one here..."
• "How we conduct ourselves..."

Yes. <smile>


Well, probably not, but even so, that makes it okay for anyone to speak in... said ways... to him or anyone else? No...


Ah, so your assessment of the character or lack thereof ~ using yourself as the standard, obviously ~ regarding another person determines how you speak to him or her. Hmmm...


Well, I don't "want"... But yeah, think what you will, for sure.


Nor I you.

By the way, I knew you would react the way you have. Which... seems like a self-acknowledgment of guilt, and in that sense is a good thing... if acted upon well. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

He acknowledged recently that he changed his mind about something after reading one of my posts, so you are clearly wrong in thinking he is offended by how I talk to him. He wouldn't keep talking to me if he was. Have you ever seen him complain about how I talk to him? Meanwhile, you never get anywhere with him because you don't try to talk to him in a way that he can understand and instead talk to him with your holier than thou attitude.

 

[PinSeeker]

He acknowledged recently that he changed his mind about something after reading one of my posts, so you are clearly wrong in thinking he is offended by how I talk to him.

That's not what was talking about. But he probably is offended to some extent, as evidenced by the fact that he often responds in kind, returning evil for evil. It's like a never-ending tennis match in a dark sort of way... <smile>

...you don't try to talk to him in a way that he can understand and instead talk to him with your holier than thou attitude.

Pish. The record is clear. I will certainly stop short of saying I've been perfect, of course ~ we all fall far short of the glory of God ~ but in all my interactions I make a concerted effort remain respectful and graceful... and even here with you is no exception.

Grace and peace to you, SI.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Pish. The record is clear. I will certainly stop short of saying I've been perfect, of course ~ we all fall far short of the glory of God ~ but in all my interactions I make a concerted effort remain respectful and graceful... and even here with you is no exception.

Pish. You have certainly made exceptions a number of times when talking to me. But, whatever. You be you and I will be me.

And, now, let's get back to our regularly scheduled discussion of "The Coming Rapture". Oh, is that what this thread is about? LOL.

 

[PinSeeker]

You have certainly made exceptions a number of times when talking to me.

I have never said anything to you like some of the things you have said to me or other posters here... or used the same sort of "manner" you often do either with me or with other posters here. nor would I. Have I been perfect? No, of course not. But the record is clear.

Yes, let's get back to it, after you've issued your (supposedly) last back-handed, graceless parting shot... so you can redirect them to other deserving folks... Christians... right? <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[The Light]

LOL! Great job at proving my point!

Nah, great job of cherry-picking part of the scripture without providing context.

You couldn't just read Revelation 17:1-4 as written and know what it was saying. You had to look at other scripture to see what some of it means. That's called interpreting scripture with scripture.

Scripture does explain scripture in many cases, so there is no need to spiritualize scripture. Just read what it says and believe what it says.

But, who or what is the beast that the woman sits on exactly? What do the seven heads represent exactly? Can you easily figure that out just from what is written? Are those things explicitly spelled out for us or do we need spiritual discernment to understand them?

Well, there are 144,000 virgin males from 12 tribes of Israel that are the first fruits of a harvest. The choice is to believe what God says or use your spiritual discernment and come up with something different. I'm going with what God says. You can discern what you want.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Scripture does explain scripture in many cases, so there is no need to spiritualize scripture. Just read what it says and believe what it says.

So, tell me who or what the beast represents exactly, what the seven heads of the beast represent exactly, what the ten horns represent exactly and what the woman who rides the beast represents exactly. If all we need to do is read what it says, then I'm sure you must know exactly what all of those things represent. So, enlighten me.

Well, there are 144,000 virgin males from 12 tribes of Israel that are the first fruits of a harvest. The choice is to believe what God says or use your spiritual discernment and come up with something different. I'm going with what God says. You can discern what you want.

So, within the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible, there is somehow no chance that this could be understood in a symbolic way? I see. Your approach is....interesting.

 

[The Light]

So, tell me who or what the beast represents exactly,

The beast is the beast of the sea. The beast of sea is Nimrod who was and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. He has the deadly wound of the sword and will live. He is the first king and also will be the eighth king.........as the eighth king is of the seven. He is the king of Babylon and the Assyrian

Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

what the seven heads of the beast represent exactly,

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

Revelation 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

what the ten horns represent exactly

The ten horns are 10 kings, which receive power for one hour with the beast. This is a world government.

Revelation 17
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

and what the woman who rides the beast represents exactly.

The woman is the Holy Mother Church, the Church of Rome. She is arrayed in purple and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stones and has a gold cup in her hand.

Revelation 17
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

If all we need to do is read what it says, then I'm sure you must know exactly what all of those things represent. So, enlighten me.

Okay.

So, within the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible, there is somehow no chance that this could be understood in a symbolic way? I see. Your approach is....interesting.

Just read what the Word says.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The beast is the beast of the sea. The beast of sea is Nimrod who was and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. He has the deadly wound of the sword and will live. He is the first king and also will be the eighth king.........as the eighth king is of the seven. He is the king of Babylon and the Assyrian

Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

I thought you interpreted scripture according to what is written? Nowhere is what you're saying written in scripture. Nimrod will not be resurrected from the dead. Only God can resurrect the dead and He will not be resurrecting Nimrod from the dead. Why would He do that? It's total nonsense to believe that.

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

Revelation 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

LOL. I said to tell me EXACTLY what the seven heads represent. So, what exactly do they represent? What do the seven mountains represent? Where is that written?

The ten horns are 10 kings, which receive power for one hour with the beast. This is a world government.

Revelation 17
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

LOL. I said to tell me EXACTLY what the ten horns represent. Where is that written?

The woman is the Holy Mother Church, the Church of Rome. She is arrayed in purple and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stones and has a gold cup in her hand.

Revelation 17
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

LOL. Where is that written? Seeing similarities between the RCC and Babylon does not make the woman Babylon the RCC.

Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

How can the RCC be "the hold of EVERY foul spirit, and a cage of EVERY unclean and hateful bird"? Are there not also foul spirits in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all other false religions, cults and philosophies?

Okay.

You did not enlighten me at all.

Just read what the Word says.

LOL. Apparently, that alone isn't enough since it has led you to many false conclusions. I guess we can just ignore when Paul says we need spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:9-16)? We can just read the Word like we read the newspaper?

 

[ewq1938]

If the seals are opened, who is the Antichrist? If the seals are opened, then the great tribulation is already over. If the seals are opened then Jesus has already come and the gathering from heaven and earth has already happened.

No, all this is wrong because you wrongly think the seals are events happening rather than previews of future events. Theya re just a version of what happened in Matthew 24 where the events were described but did not happen at that time. The seals are the same.

The seals have not been opened.


Right. Matthew 24 contains the 1st 6 seals. They are not opened brother.

John saw a vision of the seals. The seals are not opened. When the seals are actually opened the event will happen.

No, the events don't happen just like it was in Matthew 24.

The verbal prophecy from Jesus contains the 1st six seals. Are you unable to see that Jesus returns at the 6th seal.

Are you unable to see that the 6th seal is future events that happen at the 7th trump?

The signs of the sun, moon and stars are a timestamp that tells us that the coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth occurs at the 6th seal.

Not occurs. It's just a vision of the future.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Both speak of what happens at the 7th trump.

Well first off, the seals are not opened.

They are all opened. They have to be before the end times events happen. Always, always would an important letter be read BEFORE the events it speaks of happen.

When they are opened the events will occur as each seal is opened.

Why would you think that I would think that the events happened when Christ sat on the mount. He was prophesying a future event. The seals are not opened.

Because the seals are the same thing! Jesus is still prophesying a future event regarding the seals.

The trumpets have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the first six seals. The trumpets are in the 7th seal which is the one year wrath of God.

When Jesus returns at the 6th seal, He comes for a harvest.

He doesn't go anywhere after opening it. The time to go anywhere is the 7th trump, which is the timeframe of the events the 6th seal described.

 

[The Light]

I thought you interpreted scripture according to what is written?

I certainly attempt to.

Nowhere is what you're saying written in scripture.

You might try Isaiah 14 to point you in the right direction. Isaiah 14 is about Nimrod.

Nimrod will not be resurrected from the dead. Only God can resurrect the dead and He will not be resurrecting Nimrod from the dead.

Can you explain how there are seven kings and the eighth king is of the seven?

Can you explain how the beast was and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit. Or that the beast was and is not and yet is?

Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Why would He do that? It's total nonsense to believe that.

I guess you don't understand the warning that Jesus gave in Matthew 24.

LOL. I said to tell me EXACTLY what the seven heads represent. So, what exactly do they represent? What do the seven mountains represent? Where is that written?

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman siteth. The woman is the Holy Mother Chruch. You ought to be able to see where she sits.

Revelation 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

LOL. I said to tell me EXACTLY what the ten horns represent. Where is that written?

The ten horns are ten kings. They have not received their kingdom yet so I can't point them out to you. I won't be around when their kingdom is formed so I will not be able to identify them for you at that time.

Revelation 17
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

LOL. Where is that written? Seeing similarities between the RCC and Babylon does not make the woman Babylon the RCC.

You really don't understand what is about to happen do you?

Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

How can the RCC be "the hold of EVERY foul spirit, and a cage of EVERY unclean and hateful bird"? Are there not also foul spirits in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all other false religions, cults and philosophies?

Do you even understand what those religions are and where they originated?

You did not enlighten me at all.

Eyes to see is a requirement as well as ears to hear.

LOL. Apparently, that alone isn't enough since it has led you to many false conclusions.

Can you identify any of my false conclusions? You really have absolutely no idea what is getting ready to happen.

I guess we can just ignore when Paul says we need spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:9-16)? We can just read the Word like we read the newspaper?

I think you might need to study Isaiah 14 for STARTERS. And understand Jesus' warning in Matthew 24.