The Coming Rapture

[The Light]

Are you claiming the gathering happened when Christ was speaking in Mark and Matthew?

Have claimed the 6th seal has occurred? No.
Have I claimed any seals are opened? No.

Well, I guess you have your answer.

 

[The Light]

The 144k are part of the church, but is not the whole church nor are any Christian gentiles part of that group. It's a literal 144k men of Israel but they are Christians, the end times remnant.

Hey. Pretty good. They are 144,000 men of Israel as you say. But they are not the end times remnant. The are the first fruits of the second harvest of the fig tree.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And therein lies the problem. So I'm wrong for believing the written Word of God. But you think you are right because you don't believe the written Word of God.
That sums it up.

So, you have decided to be a child and make this about one of us supposedly believing the written Word of God and one of us not when the reality is we both believe it as we understand it, but we don't understand it the same way. If you ever decide to grow up and want to talk about this like an adult, let me know.

 

[The Light]

So, you have decided to be a child and make this about one of us supposedly believing the written Word of God and one of us not when the reality is we both believe it as we understand it, but we don't understand it the same way. If you ever decide to grow up and want to talk about this like an adult, let me know.

LOL. I was speaking the truth. Spiritualizing the Word of God or making the Word of God say what you want it say is not understanding the Word of God.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes, I see what you did. You put in a qualifier. Daniel 12:1-2 also has a qualifier.

Nope. LOL!

It's close..........very close.

I'm just saying that "close" and "near" to us is very different than "close" and "near" to the Lord.

This means nothing...

To you. Yes, I understand.

Even though you have said so many times......all the times that you said it, I have missed it.

Not "missed," but dismissed, because... what you see is not there.

What scriptures are you referring that you have gotten crickets on? I will be happy to address anything that you think I am avoiding

LOL! You had many chances... The record is clear.

Sorry it seems you missed the qualifier.

Wait... I missed the qualifier that I supposedly put in myself? LOL!

Everyone that is sleeps in the dust of the earth is not going to be raised at the 6th seal...

No one will be left behind; all will be raised... to one thing or the other, to eternal life or judgment.

..........only the people of Daniel. Theres that qualifier.

<chuckles> No "qualifiers." <smile>

It is the Church that currently is known by Him and we know Him.

Which is true of all believers, all those born again of the Spirit and thus in Christ, of whom there is no ethnicity, as we are all one in Christ Jesus.

That is the first fold.

The only "fold."

After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, part of Israel will have its blindness removed.

Nope. Both will happen concurrently and be brought to fruition at the appointed (by God) time.

Then we start over...

Well, all things will be made new, as God says in Revelation 21:5. There is no "starting over." Unless you mean that in the sense of everything being "made new"... <smile>

........first fruits.....144,000 of them and then they that are Christs at His coming.

The 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14... 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel... denote the complete completeness (yes, that does seem redundant, but is very purposeful in John's Revelation) of God's people and their true of-the-Holy-Spirit Jewishness of all of God's Israel, which is then portrayed in Revelation 7:9-17 as an innumerable multitude.

They are the second fold.

Nope, the one "fold." All those given to Jesus by the Father.

At the gathering from heaven and earth the two fold become one fold, the Israel of God.

They were never two in that sense. There was always and will always be only one. We are all one in Christ Jesus.

All go to heaven for the marriage supper and are the great multitude seen in heaven.

Well, the New Heaven and New Earth. As in the great hymn, This Is My Father's World... heaven and earth will then have become one. So, the marriage supper will be right here. We will not "go" anywhere; heaven comes down to us, which in John's vision we "see" in Revelation 21:10 and following: "the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God..."

No.

Yes. <smile>

The great tribulation will occur before the second fold is brought in. Immediately after the tribulation of those days at the 6th seal, Jesus will return and send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Then the two folds become one fold. We will all be in heaven for the marriage supper during the one-year wrath of God.

Ugh. <smile>

So you think Satan is bound currently. What scripture causes you to believe this?

He is. In Matthew 12, Jesus says, "if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons..." ~ and He is even to this day ~ "...then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods..." ~ which, again, He is, even to this day ~ "...unless he first binds the strong man?" Satan is that "strong man," The Light, and all those who are not born again of the Spirit are "his goods"... their father is the devil. Even now, though, there are some for whom this will not remain the case, although exactly for whom (who will be included among God's elect) we cannot know.

Why do you disagree?

I've been very clear.

We know the great tribulation cannot begin until the AOD is set up. The eliminates the 5th seal being opened.

As I have said, I do think there will be a final, great "ramping up"... a final conflict, if you will... in this period of tribulation, one which, as I said before ~ as Jesus says ~ "great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be..." which "...for the sake of the elect will be cut short."

If the first seal is opened...

See, this is the problem, I think. Not to say the seals are not real things, because they are, but to see them as strictly sequential and mutually exclusive and even singular ~ at least the first five; yes, we can see in the sixth the return of Christ ~ is wrong. As I have said, you are certainly welcome to call that my opinion; I have no problem with that. But this same thing can also be said of the bowls and the trumpets in John's visions. This gets at the gulf, the chasm between the dispensational understanding of Revelation... and the Bible as a whole, really... and the (correct) covenantal one.

...who is the rider on the white horse, the second beast, that carries a bow.....Apollo, also know as Horus, Tammuz, etc. etc. etc.......

As I said before, the four horsemen of 6:1-8 represent conquest, war, famine, and death. These things are past, present, and future (although certainly not eternal) realities, and there have been, are, and still will be (for a time) many, many real manifestations of them; these calamities characterize an indefinite period before Christ's Second Coming.

.....the Antichrist.

Here, I would just say (and this is closely tied to what I said above) ~ well, point out, actually ~ what John says in 1 John 2, that "you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18).

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. I was speaking the truth. Spiritualizing the Word of God or making the Word of God say what you want it say is not understanding the Word of God.

LOL. You were speaking falsehood. Not being able to differentiate between literal and symbolic text within the most highly symbolic book in the Word of God is not helpful for you. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

 

[ewq1938]

Have claimed the 6th seal has occurred? No.

It occurred just like Christ's teaching on the MT of Olives occurred. Both are about prophecies of the end times. The events Christ spoke of and that John saw when the seals were opened are events that happen when the trumps sound.

Have I claimed any seals are opened? No.

Well, I guess you have your answer.

The point I was making is that verbal descriptions of future events and visual seeing those same events does not mean those events were happening at the time.

Matthew 24 OD is verbal descriptions of future events. None happened at that time.
The seals were visual descriptions of future events. None happened at that time.

Only the trumps are the ones that signal actual events to occur. Seals on a scroll protected military or sensitive info. They were part of info that was to be known BEFORE any events happened. That's why all the seals events are just information given ahead of teh actual events happening.

It's impossible to understand the seals and trumps without knowing this.

 

[The Light]

It occurred just like Christ's teaching on the MT of Olives occurred. Both are about prophecies of the end times. The events Christ spoke of and that John saw when the seals were opened are events that happen when the trumps sound.

No brother. The events that Christ spoke of are about the 1st six seals. The beginning of sorrows is the first four seals. The great tribulation is the 5th seal and the coming of Jesus immediately after the tribulation (which is not the wrath of God) occurs at the 6th seal. John had a vision of the things that will occur when the seals are opened. We know what the 1st 6 seals are. The seventh seal is the wrath of God which contains the trumpets and vials. Those trumpets have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the 1st 6 seals.

The point I was making is that verbal descriptions of future events and visual seeing those same events does not mean those events were happening at the time.

Of course those events where not happening when Jesus described them or when John had a vision of them. None of the seals are opened. Jesus described future events. John had a vision of what will happen when the seals are opened. The seventh seal which contains the trumpets and vials has nothing to do with the 1st 6 seals.

Matthew 24 OD is verbal descriptions of future events. None happened at that time.
The seals were visual descriptions of future events. None happened at that time.

Exactly. No seals are opened as of yet. They will be open very, very, very, very soon.

Only the trumps are the ones that signal actual events to occur.

No sir. John had a vison of what will happen when the 7 seals are opened. When the seals actually opened, the events will occur. The 1st six seals have nothing to do with the 7th seal.

Seals on a scroll protected military or sensitive info. They were part of info that was to be known BEFORE any events happened. That's why all the seals events are just information given ahead of teh actual events happening.

When the seals are actually opened, the events will happen.

It's impossible to understand the seals and trumps without knowing this.

I see no mystery in this. 7 seals are going to be opened in the future. When seventh seal is opened after the great tribulation, the one year wrath of God will begin.

 

[ewq1938]

I see no mystery in this. 7 seals are going to be opened in the future. When seventh seal is opened after the great tribulation, the one year wrath of God will begin.

There's only one time Jesus was not found anywhere and then suddenly he was a slain Lamb in heaven and was found so the seals could be removed from the scroll. He opened the seals long ago when he ascended into heaven after leaving hades. A scroll like that must be opened before any of the events take place. That's the entire purpose of a scroll with wax seals.

The seals in Matthew 24 are exactly as the seals in Rev 6, prophecy of what is to come in the endtimes. We got a verbal prophecy in Mtthew 24, and we got another in letter form from John according to what he saw. That's two of the same basic thing and same basic endtimes events. Those events happen in the trumps, not when the seals were opened and not when Christ sat on the mount.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Here is a rapture that occurs at the 6th seal. But you think this event occurs at the end of wrath........I think. Which it does not.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.


Which in no way negates MANY of them being raised and not all them being raised. Additionally we are talking about DANIELS PEOPLE. So as usual, your view is left wanting.


Oh I see the connection between the two. Daniel 12 is talking about MANY that sleep in the dust of the earth are raised. And this event occurs at the 6th seal.

John 5 says ALL are raised. And this occurs in Revelation 11 after Armageddon.

So the connection is the Church is raptured before the great tribulation when the dead in Christ rise first and then the alive that remain. This is the fold.

Then at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal MANY of them that sleep in the dust of the earth are raised. These are of the 12 tribes across the earth that keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. This rapture is the second fold. Both folds are brought to heaven as one fold.......the great multitude.

Then at the end of wrath it is the time of judgement. ALL that remain in the dust of the earth are raised at this time.



No seals are opened. We are not in the great tribulation.

I figured you thought there was a rapture at the end.

You really need to study more.


Not sure what you mean. MANY IS MANY................NOT ALL.

2 folds join and become one fold.

No seal are opened and we are not in the great tribulation which is the tribulation of those days.

If you have anything specific that I have missed point it out to me.

He has taught you that :
There is no rapture
Satan is bound
No marriage supper in heaven
No two wives ( Gentile, Jew)
... and Amil "revelations from god"
All of the entire Bible is seen through a distorted prism.
Thank you Jesus I got away from that doctrine in 1977

Just a treasure of info.

 

[The Light]

There's only one time Jesus was not found anywhere and then suddenly he was a slain Lamb in heaven and was found so the seals could be removed from the scroll. He opened the seals long ago when he ascended into heaven after leaving hades. A scroll like that must be opened before any of the events take place. That's the entire purpose of a scroll with wax seals.

If the seals are opened, who is the Antichrist? If the seals are opened, then the great tribulation is already over. If the seals are opened then Jesus has already come and the gathering from heaven and earth has already happened.

The seals have not been opened.

The seals in Matthew 24 are exactly as the seals in Rev 6, prophecy of what is to come in the endtimes.

Right. Matthew 24 contains the 1st 6 seals. They are not opened brother.

John saw a vision of the seals. The seals are not opened. When the seals are actually opened the event will happen.

We got a verbal prophecy in Mtthew 24, and we got another in letter form from John according to what he saw. That's two of the same basic thing and same basic endtimes events.

The verbal prophecy from Jesus contains the 1st six seals. Are you unable to see that Jesus returns at the 6th seal. The signs of the sun, moon and stars are a timestamp that tells us that the coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth occurs at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Those events happen in the trumps, not when the seals were opened and not when Christ sat on the mount.

Well first off, the seals are not opened. When they are opened the events will occur as each seal is opened.

Why would you think that I would think that the events happened when Christ sat on the mount. He was prophesying a future event. The seals are not opened.

The trumpets have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the first six seals. The trumpets are in the 7th seal which is the one year wrath of God.

When Jesus returns at the 6th seal, He comes for a harvest. He returns to heaven with those that have been gathered. That is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7. Those in heaven are there for the marriage supper of the Lamb. While we are in heaven the 7th seal is opened, and the trumpets and vials of Gods wrath occur. At the end of one year we return with Jesus with armies of heaven for Armageddon.

 

[The Light]

He has taught you that :
There is no rapture
Satan is bound
No marriage supper in heaven
No two wives ( Gentile, Jew)
... and Amil "revelations from god"
All of the entire Bible is seen through a distorted prism.
Thank you Jesus I got away from that doctrine in 1977

Just a treasure of info.

As soon as the Word of God is spiritualized, you are totally lost.

It's puzzling that people believe you gain understanding by changing the Word of God.

The more we accept EXACTLY what is written, the more we understand.

 

[PinSeeker]

If the seals are opened, who is the Antichrist?

John says in 1 John 2:18, "you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour."

If the seals are opened, then the great tribulation is already over.

That's true of the sixth and seventh only. As I said, the four horsemen of 6:1-8 represent conquest, war, famine, and death. These calamities characterize an indefinite period before the Second Coming (Mark 13:6-8). Such things occurred in the tumults of the Roman Empire, and may be expected to occur now and just before the Second Coming. The imagery is capable of multiple embodiments. The seven churches were exhorted to put their confidence not in peace and prosperity supposedly achieved by Roman rule, but in God and his promises of a new world (Revelation 21:4; 2:17; 3:12). When tumults occurred, they were assured that the Lamb was still in control ~ in fact the tumults issued from his worthiness to break the seals and from the voice of the living creatures. Such judgments represented the chastening hand of God on a rebellious world (Revelation 9:20-21). The saints would be cared for in the midst of such trials (Revelation 7:1-17). They were sealed as a mark of ownership and protection (Revelation 7:1-10; 9:4), and given perfect rest in the end (Revelation 7:15-17).

Such promises hold for saints throughout the church age, as well as for the seven churches. We today are to put our hope in the Lamb, and not in earthly promises of prosperity and security. When calamities come, we may remain calm, knowing that the Lamb who was slain for us is still in control, and that nothing can separate us from Him, from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:28-39).

The seals have not been opened.

The first five have been, and have been made manifest to us many times over the past 2000 years, and there are more to come. But one day ~ the Day of Christ ~ it will be no more.

The trumpets have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the first six seals. The trumpets are in the 7th seal which is the one year wrath of God.

Ugh. <smile>

The trumpets set in motion seven judgments leading up to the Second Coming. The trumpets form the second cycle out of several that depict God’s rule over history from various angles. Like the trumpets used in the battle of Jericho (Joshua 6), these trumpets lead up to the fall of the worldly city (Revelation 11:13), and in the seventh trumpet the complete victory of God arrives. In these ways, the trumpets are parallel with and concurrent to the seals. The seven seals began with announcements of riders commissioned to bring calamities (6:1-8), and the seven trumpets, by contrast, contain vivid descriptions of the calamities themselves. The first four trumpet plagues (Revelation 8:7-12) strike the four major regions of creation: dry land, sea, fresh water, and sky (the first four bowls/vials affect the same four regions (Revelation 16:1-9). The trumpet judgments issue from God’s angels, who stand before his throne (Revelation 8:2). The vision of Revelation 4:1-5:14 remains an anchor point for this new cycle of visions. Like the seal judgments of Revelation 6:1-8:1, these judgments are executed according to God’s plan and in accord with his orders. The prayers of the saints play a notable part in originating the judgments (Revelation 8:3-4).

...those events where not happening when Jesus described them or when John had a vision of them.

They were. See directly above.

The more we accept EXACTLY what is written, the more we understand.

Now THIS I agree with. <smile>

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As soon as the Word of God is spiritualized, you are totally lost.

It's puzzling that people believe you gain understanding by changing the Word of God.

The more we accept EXACTLY what is written, the more we understand.

This is completely ridiculous. What does this even mean? Do you accept the following EXACTLY as it is written?

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

 

[PinSeeker]

This is completely ridiculous. What does this even mean?

You know this, SI, but "spiritualized" is made out to be ~ in those streams of thought ~ essentially synonymous with "not real" and/or "not literal." Which is surely not the case.

Do you accept the following EXACTLY as it is written?

They... think they do. <smile> And that's fair enough, the same can be said of us all.

This comment is not aimed at anyone in particular but applies to us all: disagreeing on particular things in scripture is really not an issue. The only real issue is repenting and believing in Christ and resting on Him alone for our salvation. Assuming we all agree on that, everything else is unimportant. Not that understanding the Word of God is unimportant, but just to say that disagreement does not warrant this constant bickering and ripping on other Christians. <smile> Yes, iron indeed sharpens iron, as King Solomon says, but that can manifest itself in a lot of really bad ~ sinful ~ ways.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You know this, SI, but "spiritualized" is made out to be ~ in those streams of thought ~ essentially synonymous with "not real" and/or "not literal." Which is surely not the case.

Right. I'm sure they believe in a spiritual reality, yet they don't really act like it.

They... think they do. <smile> And that's fair enough, the same can be said of us all.

Well., what they mean by that is that they take scripture literally and we don't. Yet, clearly, not all scripture is literal text. We do take scripture as written. It's sometimes written in literal text, sometimes figurative, sometimes poetic and so on. We take each verse or passage as it is written.

This comment is not aimed at anyone in particular but applies to us all: disagreeing on particular things in scripture is really not an issue. The only real issue is repenting and believing in Christ and resting on Him alone for our salvation. Assuming we all agree on that, everything else is unimportant.

I agree to some extent, but not completely. When someone does not believe that Jesus is reigning right now or believes His power is limited right now, that can affect their personal lives and their effectiveness at advancing the kingdom. Jesus has all power in heaven and earth right now (Matt 28:18) and we have that power at our disposal because He wants to work through us. So, I would not consider it to be unimportant when any doctrine takes away from who Jesus is right now and who we are right now as His followers.

Not that understanding the Word of God is unimportant, but just to say that disagreement does not warrant this constant bickering and ripping on other Christians. <smile>

Mostly true except for when one's beliefs contradict the character of Jesus/God or if their beliefs affect their personal lives. Take dispensationalism, for instance. Because of their wrong focus on national Israel, some of them give a lot of time, effort and money to support that nation which consists mostly of those who reject Christ. Time, effort and money that would be better spent doing other things.

 

[The Light]

This is completely ridiculous. What does this even mean? Do you accept the following EXACTLY as it is written?

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Here, maybe this will help you understand. Keep reading.

Revelation 17
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 

[PinSeeker]

...they don't really act like it.

There's a lot of that going on here, and "they" are not the only ones guilty of that, which was at least one of my points.

When someone does not believe that Jesus is reigning right now or believes His power is limited right now, that can affect their personal lives...

Sure, but for any one of us to attribute that to and/or to disparage or tear down any one here is terribly sinful, which, again, was at least one of my points.

...their effectiveness at advancing the kingdom.

Again, plenty of that to go around here.

...I would not consider it to be unimportant when any doctrine takes away from who Jesus is right now and who we are right now as His followers.

Right, but this was not among my points. How we conduct ourselves in the presence of others, especially if those others are in Christ, in light of what has been done for us and because of who we have been made to be in Christ was more what I was getting at.

Mostly true except for when one's beliefs contradict the character of Jesus/God or if their beliefs affect their personal lives. Take dispensationalism, for instance. Because of their wrong focus on national Israel, some of them give a lot of time, effort and money to support that nation which consists mostly of those who reject Christ. Time, effort and money that would be better spent doing other things.

I think we should all be far more concerned about the log in our own eye before we even attempt to take the speck out of another's. <smile>

Grace and peace to you, SI.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Here, maybe this will help you understand. Keep reading.

Revelation 17
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

LOL! Great job at proving my point! You couldn't just read Revelation 17:1-4 as written and know what it was saying. You had to look at other scripture to see what some of it means. That's called interpreting scripture with scripture.

But, who or what is the beast that the woman sits on exactly? What do the seven heads represent exactly? Can you easily figure that out just from what is written? Are those things explicitly spelled out for us or do we need spiritual discernment to understand them?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There's a lot of that going on here, and "they" are not the only ones guilty of that, which was at least one of my points.


Sure, but for any one of us to attribute that to and/or to disparage or tear down any one here is terribly sinful, which, again, was at least one of my points.


Again, plenty of that to go around here.


Right, but this was not among my points. How we conduct ourselves in the presence of others, especially if those others are in Christ, in light of what has been done for us and because of who we have been made to be in Christ was more what I was getting at.


I think we should all be far more concerned about the log in our own eye before we even attempt to take the speck out of another's. <smile>

Grace and peace to you, SI.

I don't think you qualify to lecture me about these things when you have never taken the log out of your own eye. We're all adults here. Do you see The Light getting offended at the way I talk to him? Not at all. He talks the same way. He's fine with it. That doesn't mean I should talk to someone else that way who actually has an open mind and is more sensitive than him. I understand that. It depends on the person. But., you go ahead and keep your holier than thou attitude if you want. I can't stop you.