More on the deity of Christ
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And will you also not share the Nicene Creed (and other trinitarian creeds) with your readers?
I have. I will. I do. And I’ve publicly called for it on this forum (and others) to be shared - to be more precise, taught - in all churches and privately in homes.
OreCove
New Member
I don't believe in direct deity of the Christ. If Jesus admitted that God left him when he was on the cross, means divine nature can come in and left. It wasn't permanently belong to Jesus. Or this is means God Father left God Son?
I'm not going to say a single word... I will let scripture do the talking...
Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (see Act 2:22)
Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him
John 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
On the authority of Jesus himself we know that the categories of "flesh" and "spirit" are never to be confused or intermingled, though the course of God's Spirit can impact our world. Jesus said, "That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" (John 3:6). And "God is Spirit." The doctrine of the incarnation confuses these categories. What God has separated man has joined together! One of the charges that the apostle Paul levels at simple man is that we have "exchange the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man" (Romans 1:23). Has it ever dawned on you as you sit in church listening to how the glorious Creator made Himself into a man that we could be guilty of this very same thing? The doctrine of the incarnation has reduced the incorruptible God to our own corruptible image. We are made in God's image, not the other way around.
Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
If we may let our Lord and King have the final word. Jesus plainly states, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers. God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24). Who does Jesus declare are the "true worshipers"? He insists, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father…" If we would be amongst the true worshipers we must be with Jesus worshiping this Father. Evidently, those who worship "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, three persons in one God," Are not said by Jesus to be the true worshippers. Those who worship the Father as the "only true God" are. The worshipper of the One God, the Father, as Jesus’ own affirmation that he is the true worshipper.
How do they not know these things... OreCove?
David Lamb
Active Member
Yes to your question. God the Father temporarily left God the Son. Why? Well, what was Jesus Christ doing on the cross? Bearing the guild and sins of His people. As Paul put it to the Corinthians:
“Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” (2Co 5:20-21 NKJV)
God the Father forsook God the Son as part of the punishment the Son was bearing on His people's behalf.
David Lamb
Active Member
One, in three "persons". The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. We see it in Creation. The Spirit was upon the face of the waters. God the Father said, "Let there be....." John's gospel tells us that the Word, the Son was involved in Creation:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)
We see the three at the baptism of Jesus:
“When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."” (Mt 3:16-17 NKJV)
A self is a person. “I myself” is me.
I myself did a search for the phrase “God himself” in an online Bible Concordance.
The phrase “God himself” occurs 200 times in 89 verses in the NASB95.
www.blueletterbible.org
The phrase “God himselfs” occurs 0 times in the NASB95.
www.blueletterbible.org
The phrase “God himselves” occurs 0 times in the NASB95.
www.blueletterbible.org
“God himself” is a single self, one self, in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament.
I myself did a search for the phrase “God himself” in an online Bible Concordance.
The phrase “God himself” occurs 200 times in 89 verses in the NASB95.
Genesis 1:1 (NASB95)
"God" AND "himself" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and Lexiconc.
www.blueletterbible.org
The phrase “God himselfs” occurs 0 times in the NASB95.
Genesis 1:1 (NASB95)
"God" AND "himselfs" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and Lexiconc.
www.blueletterbible.org
The phrase “God himselves” occurs 0 times in the NASB95.
Genesis 1:1 (NASB95)
"God" AND "himselves" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and Lexiconc.
www.blueletterbible.org
“God himself” is a single self, one self, in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament.
David Lamb
Active Member
I think human language is insufficient for these things. Jesus said that He and His Father are one. We cannot fully conceive of a father and a son being one entity. But I would say that talking about three selfs with regard to God is not accurate, because there is one God, Who exists as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
I maintain that God communicates with us using human language that he knows we can understand.
I don’t think Jesus himself believed and was saying that he and his Father are one entity.
So you would perhaps say then that the Trinity is one self, which is incomprehensible to human beings? A mystery, but one that must be taken on faith and is true?
I’d like to ask you a question about the following tweet posted by a trinitarian pastor on X / Twitter. His statement is similar to yours.
“Jesus is Not the Father. The Father is Not the Spirit. The Spirit is not the Son.
The Trinity is one God, three Persons. Not one God wearing three masks.
Jesus prays to the Father (John 17:1) - He’s not talking to Himself.
The Father sends the Spirit (John 14:26) - He’s not sending Himself.
At Jesus’ baptism, all three Persons are present (Matthew 3:16-17).
Not three gods. Not one person playing three roles.
One God in three distinct, coequal, coeternal Persons.”
(Pastor Virgil L. Walker)
My observation: The trinitarian pastor is clearly telling his readers that the Trinity is three selfs not one self.
My question: When you read what the pastor said, do you agree that he is clearly telling us that the Trinity is three selfs, not one self?
In other words, when we read what he wrote, are we seeing the same thing?
The one God of the Jews wouldn’t, didn’t, and won’t ever leave himself.
***
As you’re probably aware, I don’t refer to Jesus as “God the Son”. I refer to him as “the Son of God”.
It’s an important distinction. Are you familiar with the story of Michael Servetus?
“From there [Servetus] was led to the site, fastened to a stake with chain, and his body was ignited. In agony, as the flames consumed him, he cried out: ‘Jesus Christ, thou Son of the eternal God, have mercy upon me.’
Farel, who had accompanied him up the hill and to the pyre, pleading with him all the way (see the engraving above), said later, if only he had placed the ‘eternal’ before the Son instead of only God, he might have been saved.”
John Calvin and the Death of Michael Servetus: Part III Continued
The Heresy, Trial, and Execution of Michael Servetus; Continuation of the Series Anabaptism and the Long Quest for Religious Liberty
christiangood.substack.com
A knowledge of Church history is indispensable in being properly equipped.
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Jesus had a special relationship with the Father, it was that relationship which was temporarily severed on the cross when Jesus took on our sins. The father can not look on sin. Jesus' nature was unchanged, he was still divine.
For we who are evil it may not seem alarming when God is silent.
Jesus is the Living Word of the Living God, Jehovah/Yahweh. In a body He created for Himself in Mary He manifested His thoughts to us in Jesus. And it becomes our Creation to be the Reality the Word of Jesus Creates. Where we enter Living in the Name of Jesus in our Son of God Life.
What exactly does that mean?
I don’t know if you had it in mind or not but your comment brings to mind for me Habakkuk 1:13.
The prophet is speaking in the passage to Yahweh, the God of the Jews, the God and Father of Jesus.
”No Sunday-school teacher has done his duty unless he constantly stresses that there is a God who sees everything.” - C.H. Spurgeon
Do you think what Spurgeon said can be harmonized with “The father can not look on sin”? (I do.)
Why do you say that you are a “really bad person”? Is it something you feel comfortable talking about?
Scripture has much to say about “good persons”.
Here is a link for a search of the NASB for the phrase “good man”: Genesis 1:1 (NASB95)
What is keeping you from becoming one?
Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8).
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Yes Habakkuk 1:13 that sounds right.
I also see no conflict with Spurgeon position. It could be explained by selective awareness, like God has his back turned.
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