Babylon

[The Light]

Rev.17:8 does not tell us what 'number' of beast king that verse is describing.

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

Do you see a number 5, 6, 7, or 8 there above? I don't.

I don't see the number either. Nor do I see 1,2,3 or 4. The beast of the sea will be the eighth king. The 7th king that has not come yet will give him his power. Additionally, the eighth king will be one of the seven.

Ecc 1
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

There is no new thing under the sun. By the way, Nimrod is the sun in the Babylonian religion. He was the first ruler of the world and he will be the last ruler of the world.

But what we DO... see is that descriptor - "and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:". That cannot be about anyone other than Satan himself, for he is the "king" and angel of the bottomless pit per Revelation 9:11.

So you think Satan is in the bottomless pit? How then do you expect him to fall from heaven as you said in another post? I think He is currently free to deceive the world.

That means one MUST... apply that "was, and is not;" phrase to Satan himself. And WHEN does he ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT per God's Word? I showed you already...

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
KJV

So what's your problem. You aren't having difficulty reading that above are you?

You have a multitude of problems if you think Satan is in the bottomless pit.

The eighth king is Nimrod who is of the 7.

 

[Davy]

I don't see the number either. Nor do I see 1,2,3 or 4. The beast of the sea will be the eighth king. The 7th king that has not come yet will give him his power. Additionally, the eighth king will be one of the seven.

And you won't see a number of which beast king the Rev.17:8 verse is speaking of, and I made that point in my earlier post. So would you like to try again to understand what I actually wrote?

In that Rev.17:8 verse, what descriptor about that beast king is... actually given there in that that verse?? The descriptor of that one will ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition of the lake of fire. Can anyone claim that is about a flesh man ASCENDING out of the bottomless pit?? And sorry Nimrod being resurrected or cloned just ain't... gonna' work.

Even in the Rev.17:10 verse, we are given a clue that the 7th beast king will only work "a short space", meaning a short time. In Rev.12:12 we are told when Satan is cast down to earth with his angels, he knows he has but "a short time". And don't you recall that Rev.17:12 verse says the ten kings will rule "one hour" with that 7th beast king?

So what is... that "short space", "short time", "one hour" symbolically pointing to? The time of "great tribulation", the 42 months the "dragon" (Satan) will have power over all nations and peoples on earth at the end of this world just prior to Christ's return.

Lord Jesus gave us many clues that 7th beast king will be Satan. One just has to listen to His 'written' Word, paying attention and think.


Rev 17:11
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

That phrase above in red, where did you see that first written in that Chapter?

Here...

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

That "eighth" beast king would not exist if it is only to be counted as one of the previous 7. You're not properly interpreting that 11th verse. That idea "and is of the seven" is pointing to the 8th beast's connection with those other 7 beast kings, in likeness. So we have to understand back to Rev.17:10 where John tells us 5 of those beast kings were history, and that "one is" meaning in John's day being the 6th one. Who do you think was 'behind' the working of those 6 beast kings of history? Satan himself; he influenced them to setup world empires, because that is exactly what he tried to do back when he first rebelled in the beginning (see Rev.12:3-4).

But for this 7th beast king, we are given a specific descriptor that cannot... apply to any flesh beast king nor any flesh-born person. And that is how the 7th beast king "shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition". That can only... be about Satan himself, and not anyone else.

 

[The Light]

Nope! Those Isaiah 14 verses are about LUCIFER...

Isa 14:12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
KJV

The original Hebrew word there is 'heylel' which means 'morning star', but the KJV translators made that "Lucifer" so one would not be confused as to whom God was actually talking about there.

Yep! Sounds like you should have done a little more REsearch. When they were translating the Hebrew word "heyel" the translators grabbed the word "lucifer" from the Latin Vulgate. It was not a proper name in the Latin Vulgate, and neither in the Hebrew. Instead of properly translating the word, they made it a proper name "Lucifer". It is not a proper name in the Hebrew or Latin vulgate. This is a translation error. The correct translation is "day star", as Jesus is the "morning star"

In the 1st edition 1611 KJV Bible, the translators have an alternate reading in the side margin of that text of "O Day Starre", just so we'd know they put "Lucifer" in there on purpose, and not by mistake.

They have the name Lucifer in there because they made an error. The original text from Hebrew and the Latin Vulgate were not proper names. If they understood the earlier verses about the fir trees and cedars of Lebon rejoicing because no "feller" has come against them since he was laid down, they would have known the verses are talking about Nimrod.

Further, if they understood the Babylonian religion they would have understood that Nimrod is claimed to become the sun at his death. The Babylonian religion is based on Nimrod the Sun or Day Star, Semiramis the queen of heaven....the moon and Tammuz the supposed reincarnation of Nimrod........the star......all in the Bible.

This false religion based on the sun, moon and star is in most religions of the world. Look at any religion and you will almost always find the false trinity of the sun, moon and star............with the sun god being male. One exception is Islam with the moon being the male god.

BYW.........these signs are all around in corporate logos. You just don't understand what they are. And pyramids three sides represent sun, moon and stars.

Thus the REAL symbolic "king of Babylon", and "the Assyrian", and "king of Tyrus", which God uses as types, are about Satan himself, and not Nimrod.

Sorry Davy. The King of Babylon is Nimrod, and he is also the Assyrian.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

For those with eyes to see and ears to listen, I have already answered the question. Christ is not seated on his throne and THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN is the fulfillment of God’s plan to plant Israel and Judah in the earth to bring in the Gentiles. Christ returns to sit on his throne (Matthew 25:31, 16:27, 19:28, 24:46-47, Luke 12:35-44, 19:11-27; and Revelation 2:25-26, 3:21, 11:18, 22:12).

Everyone here can see that you're dodging my question. Do you believe that we are in Christ's spiritual kingdom right now? Is He your King right now?

Pagans invented this notion that the soul is immortal; the scriptures support only God is immortal,

Scripture teaches that the souls of dead people have consciousness (Luke 16:19-31, Rev 6:9-11, Mark 9:1-4, Mark 12:26-27). Why are you dodging that point? You're not addressing anything I brought up. Why do you cherry pick certain scriptures while ignoring the rest? Are you afraid to address the scriptures I brought up that show the souls of people being alive?

Tell me, is God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob right now? Keep in mind that He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

1 Timothy 6
16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

This verse does not support soul sleep. What this verse is saying is that God alone has always existed and always will. Human beings are created and are not immortal in the same sense that God is. Scripture only speaks of our bodies needing to be changed to put on immortality (1 Cor 15:35-54), not our souls and spirits.

Hebrews 9:27 establishes we are all appointed to die once, and after that, the judgment, which is developed in 1 Corinthians 15,

That does not mean people sleep after physically dying until the judgment. That means once people physically die there is nothing they can do to change their eternal destinies which will be announced by Christ in the day of judgment.

Tell me, why did Jesus portray people as having consciousness after bodily death in Luke 16:19-31 is that wasn't true?

Why are the souls of dead martyrs portrayed as having consciousness in Revelation 6:9-11 if they don't actually have consciousness?

How was Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah at His transfiguration if those who are physically dead have no consciousness?

1 Corinthians 15
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ…
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

That is only speaking of the body. Do you not acknowledge what Paul taught, which is that we also have a soul and a spirit? Why do you ignore so much scripture?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Christ’s return coincides with judgment, AND THEN WE BECOME IMMORTAL, UNABLE TO DIE.

Bodily. Where does it say that about our souls and spirits?

So, if we die and are able to think as know what is happening then, we put on immortality then, and not when Christ returns. THOUGHT IS LIFE. We don’t have to wait till Jesus returns to live again according to such pagan notions. But death is the penalty for sin, and the RESURRECTION is the reward of LIFE, RULE, POWER, AND AUTHORITY to the overcomers in the age to come and before the eternal state begins.

Ecclesiastes 9
5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.

That passage is talking about no longer having consciousness "under the sun" which refers to our lives on the earth and says nothing about not having consciousness after we are no longer "under the sun". It's talking about them no longer being able to love, hate, envy and so on like they did while living their lives on earth under the sun. That does not mean they can't have consciousness where they go that is not under the sun (heaven or hell). You are missing the context of all of these scriptures.

 

[The Light]

And you won't see a number of which beast king the Rev.17:8 verse is speaking of, and I made that point in my earlier post. So would you like to try again to understand what I actually wrote?

In that Rev.17:8 verse, what descriptor about that beast king is... actually given there in that that verse?? The descriptor of that one will ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition of the lake of fire. Can anyone claim that is about a flesh man ASCENDING out of the bottomless pit?? And sorry Nimrod being resurrected or cloned just ain't... gonna' work.

I got a pretty good idea you will find out soon that you are wrong on this. Unless you think the U.S. military was sent over to Iraq to find imaginary weapons of mass destruction.

And Jesus warning that the Messiah is not in the desert or in the secret chamber, which is the secret burial means nothing in your eyes.

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

That "eighth" beast king would not exist if it is only to be counted as one of the previous 7. You're not properly interpreting that 11th verse. That idea "and is of the seven" is pointing to the 8th beast's connection with those other 7 beast kings, in likeness. So we have to understand back to Rev.17:10 where John tells us 5 of those beast kings were history, and that "one is" meaning in John's day being the 6th one. Who do you think was 'behind' the working of those 6 beast kings of history? Satan himself; he influenced them to setup world empires, because that is exactly what he tried to do back when he first rebelled in the beginning (see Rev.12:3-4).

Actually, if you knew your stuff, you would realize that Nimrod is behind those kingdoms. Do you not understand that these kingdoms, were under the sun god. Nimrod is the Day Star, the sun.

In Egypt, Pharoh was god on earth, and Ra the sun god.
In Rome, Ceasar was god on earth and the Pope is Pontifex Maximus and god on earth...........under the sun.
Alexander the Great...........god on earth......named Pharoh and son of Ra

What did Hitler use as his symbol when trying to take over the world. The swastika an ancient sun sign.

There are signs in the sun, moon and stars that are everywhere. They are right in front of your face and yet you do not understand them.

But for this 7th beast king, we are given a specific descriptor that cannot... apply to any flesh beast king nor any flesh-born person. And that is how the 7th beast king "shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition". That can only... be about Satan himself, and not anyone else.

The eighth king has to be one of the 7. Simple. Nimrod was the first king.

 

[Davy]

Yep! Sounds like you should have done a little more REsearch. When they were translating the Hebrew word "heyel" the translators grabbed the word "lucifer" from the Latin Vulgate. It was not a proper name in the Latin Vulgate, and neither in the Hebrew. Instead of properly translating the word, they made it a proper name "Lucifer". It is not a proper name in the Hebrew or Latin vulgate. This is a translation error. The correct translation is "day star", as Jesus is the "morning star"

You still... didn't read what I wrote. I had said that the KJV translators put "O Day Starre" in the margin of the KJV text in their FIRST EDTION 1611 KJV Bible.

That means they WELL KNEW the original Hebrew word 'heylel' meant 'morning star', as that is what the idea of "O Day Starre" is referring to. To make GOD's MESSAGE THERE clear, they put the word "Lucifer" in their KJV translation, showing they UNDERSTOOD God was pointing to Lucifer himself. So that ain't... an ERROR like you are only trying... to claim. The KJV translators using "Lucifer" instead was INTENTIONAL, for clarity of that Scripture.

And when you ought... to be focused on God's MESSAGE there in Isaiah 14 about Lucifer's original rebellion in wanting to be GOD, which God is even using Lucifer's own words in mocking against him there, you want to try to wedge the Vulgate into that with word fallacy issues?? No wonder you have such difficulty in actually understanding The Bible, your not seeing the forest for the trees.

And by the way, the ability for man to do CLONING of humans is a BIG JOKE. It ain't NEVER... been proven, but only claimed! So you are believing on fairy tales with your Nimrod theory.

 

[The Light]

You still... didn't read what I wrote. I had said that the KJV translators put "O Day Starre" in the margin of the KJV text in their FIRST EDTION 1611 KJV Bible.

I read what you wrote. Day star is the sun. The sun is Nimrod.

That means they WELL KNEW the original Hebrew word 'heylel' meant 'morning star', as that is what the idea of "O Day Starre" is referring to. To make GOD's MESSAGE THERE clear, they put the word "Lucifer" in their KJV translation, showing they UNDERSTOOD God was pointing to Lucifer himself. So that ain't... an ERROR like you are only trying... to claim. The KJV translators using "Lucifer" instead was INTENTIONAL, for clarity of that Scripture.

Yes, it was intentional. They intentionally MADE AN INTERPRETATION OF THE WORD OF GOD, instead of translating the Word of God.
And as I showed you, if they understood the earlier passages of Isaiah 14 with the fir trees rejoicing when Nimrod is laid down, (which you no doubt do not understand) they would realize that their job was NOT to INTERPRET THE BIBLE, their job is to TRANSLATE THE BIBLE.

And if they understood the Babylonian religion that is all over the world, they would have understood that Nimrod is claimed to be the sun and he is the day star.

And when you ought... to be focused on God's MESSAGE there in Isaiah 14 about Lucifer's original rebellion in wanting to be GOD, which God is even using Lucifer's own words in mocking against him there, you want to try to wedge the Vulgate into that with word fallacy issues?? No wonder you have such difficulty in actually understanding The Bible, your not seeing the forest for the trees.

LOL. So you think that Lucifer is currently in the bottomless pit??????????? Not hardly. As I said, the translator's job is to translate and not interpret. If they would have translated properly they would have put "day star" in the text and you wouldn't be running around like a chicken with its head cut off, blindly cackling about Lucifer.

And by the way, the ability for man to do CLONING of humans is a BIG JOKE. It ain't NEVER... been proven, but only claimed! So you are believing on fairy tales with your Nimrod theory.

Yeah right. Jesus warned the Jews, when they say he is in the desert, in the secret chamber don't believe them. I wonder what that's all about. The Lord is coming as lightning from the east to the west. The beast of the sea will come from the secret burial chamber as the Lord warns.

So explain what Satan is doing today while he is in the bottomless pit as you claim.

 

[Truth7t7]

Care to elaborate?

No need to elaborate, my post was sufficient

 

[The Light]

No need to elaborate, my pist was sufficient

No your pist didn't put out the fire.

 

[Davy]

I read what you wrote. Day star is the sun. The sun is Nimrod.

Trying to communicate with you is useless. It's like having a battle with a one-armed man.

Isa 14:12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (Hebrew heylel), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV

OT:1966: heylel (hay-lale'); from OT:1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:

KJV - lucifer (the king of Babylon).
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

That Hebrew word heylel ain't got nothin'... to do with Nimrod. Instead it means MORNING STAR!

So you don't know who The True Morning Star is, do you? That's why you can't understand God's Message in that Isaiah 14 Chapter about the devil.

 

[Truth7t7]

Care to elaborate?

The saints in Revelation 13:7 are the (Two Witnesses) in Revelation 11:7, same beast making war and overcoming the (Two Witnesses) the saints being overcome isn't the church as you suggest

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

 

[Davy]

The saints in Revelation 13:7 are the (Two Witnesses) in Revelation 11:7, same beast making war and overcoming the (Two Witnesses) the saints being overcome isn't the church as you suggest

That's certainly baloney, because the "saints" DOES MEAN CHRIST'S CHURCH.

What you obviously do not know from Bible Scripture is how TWO CHURCHES are being mentioned ALONG WITH God's "two witnesses" in Jerusalem for the end.

Rev 11:3-4
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
KJV


Rev 1:20
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
KJV

TWO out the SEVEN Churches will make a STAND for Christ against the beast at the end, ALONG with God's "two witnesses". That is why Jesus said this to His Church about the end and giving a Testimony against the beast via The Holy Spirit...

Mark 13:9-11
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
KJV

There ain't nothing in the above that shows Lord Jesus pointing 'directly' only to God's "two witnesses" of Revelation 11 being delivered up.

Instead, Jesus is speaking the above to His Church. And the fact... that He showed in Rev.11:4 only "two candlesticks" (Churches) will be involved, that means He was pointing to His very elect saints of two specific Churches in Revelation. Go figure it out, for He told us.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Trying to communicate with you is useless. It's like having a battle with a one-armed man.

That's how I feel when trying to communicate with you. But, look at you, a Premill, arguing with another Premill again. Isn't that hilarious, Davy? Just like you found it to be when two Amills were arguing? Too funny, right?

 

[The Light]

Trying to communicate with you is useless. It's like having a battle with a one-armed man.

Thanks. Having a battle with you is like having a battle with a blind man that likes to shout loudly about what He sees. It's no wonder you get continually whupped by a one arm man. Blindness.

Good thing you have your legs so you can run.

Run Davy, Run...........

Isa 14:12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (Hebrew heylel), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV

OT:1966: heylel (hay-lale'); from OT:1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:

KJV - lucifer (the king of Babylon).
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

That Hebrew word heylel ain't got nothin'... to do with Nimrod. Instead it means MORNING STAR!

So you don't know who The True Morning Star is, do you? That's why you can't understand God's Message in that Isaiah 14 Chapter about the devil.

Jesus is the morning star. Nimrod is the day star.......the sun..........you remember the KJV translators put "O Day Starre" in the margin of the KJV text in their FIRST EDTION 1611 KJV Bible.

You forgot to mention that "lucifer" is not a proper name in the Latin Vulgate. It's pretty obvious that the translators did not properly translate the text, they interpreted the text...............AND TOTALLY INCORRECTLY AT THAT.

You are obviously wrong. Either man up and admit it or Run Davy, Run.

 

[Truth7t7]

Everyone here can see that you're dodging my question. Do you believe that we are in Christ's spiritual kingdom right now? Is He your King right now?

No Jesus will be King during the Millennium

Scripture teaches that the souls of dead people have consciousness (Luke 16:19-31, Rev 6:9-11, Mark 9:1-4, Mark 12:26-27). Why are you dodging that point? You're not addressing anything I brought up. Why do you cherry pick certain scriptures while ignoring the rest? Are you afraid to address the scriptures I brought up that show the souls of people being alive?

The souls sleep until the future judgement, then they are destroyed annihilated

Tell me, is God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob right now? Keep in mind that He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

The old and new testaments are different covenants, God still has a future plan for national Israel

This verse does not support soul sleep. What this verse is saying is that God alone has always existed and always will. Human beings are created and are not immortal in the same sense that God is. Scripture only speaks of our bodies needing to be changed to put on immortality (1 Cor 15:35-54), not our souls and spirits.

Bodies aren't changed, we live spiritually for eternity

That does not mean people sleep after physically dying until the judgment. That means once people physically die there is nothing they can do to change their eternal destinies which will be announced by Christ in the day of judgment.

You forget there is purgatory, we pray for the dead to enter eternal life

Tell me, why did Jesus portray people as having consciousness after bodily death in Luke 16:19-31 is that wasn't true?

Why are the souls of dead martyrs portrayed as having consciousness in Revelation 6:9-11 if they don't actually have consciousness?

How was Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah at His transfiguration if those who are physically dead have no consciousness?


That is only speaking of the body. Do you not acknowledge what Paul taught, which is that we also have a soul and a spirit? Why do you ignore so much scripture?

That is all symbolic, and you want to make it literal

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Once again it's symbolic

Bodily. Where does it say that about our souls and spirits?

Symbolic

That passage is talking about no longer having consciousness "under the sun" which refers to our lives on the earth and says nothing about not having consciousness after we are no longer "under the sun". It's talking about them no longer being able to love, hate, envy and so on like they did while living their lives on earth under the sun. That does not mean they can't have consciousness where they go that is not under the sun (heaven or hell). You are missing the context of all of these scriptures.

It's all symbolic, just as the beast and two witnesses are symbolic

 

[Davy]

Jesus is the morning star. Nimrod is the day star.......the sun..........you remember the KJV translators put "O Day Starre" in the margin of the KJV text in their FIRST EDTION 1611 KJV Bible.

Wow! How you CONTRADICT YOURSELF!

You can't have it both ways, either Lord Jesus is The Morning Star, or Nimrod is The Morning Star, because the 'morning star' is what that Hebrew word 'heylel' means!

I can see how some brethren get confused about God calling the devil the 'morning star' (heylel) there in Isaiah 14:12, but your Biblical illiteracy truly takes the cake on that.

Isa 14:12
12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star (Hebrew heylel), son of Dawn!
ESV

There's the English Standard Version Bible that many use. The ASV, Lexham English Bible, The Message Bible, New Heart English Bible, New Living Translation, World English Bible, Young's Literal Translation, even the NIV, they all translate to the idea of 'morning star' instead of "Lucifer" with that translation of Hebrew heylel.

God's Message there is how when Lucifer first rebelled in the 'old world', he wanted to be The GOD and worshiped in place of GOD. And that also means the devil wanted to be as The Morning Star, i.e,. GOD The Son. It's because Jesus is... GOD and The Morning Star is one of His Titles per Revelation 22. Thus God was mocking Lucifer there, using Lucifer's own claim against him.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's certainly baloney, because the "saints" DOES MEAN CHRIST'S CHURCH.

What you obviously do not know from Bible Scripture is how TWO CHURCHES are being mentioned ALONG WITH God's "two witnesses" in Jerusalem for the end.

Rev 11:3-4
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
KJV


Rev 1:20
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
KJV

TWO out the SEVEN Churches will make a STAND for Christ against the beast at the end, ALONG with God's "two witnesses". That is why Jesus said this to His Church about the end and giving a Testimony against the beast via The Holy Spirit...

Mark 13:9-11
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
KJV

There ain't nothing in the above that shows Lord Jesus pointing 'directly' only to God's "two witnesses" of Revelation 11 being delivered up.

Instead, Jesus is speaking the above to His Church. And the fact... that He showed in Rev.11:4 only "two candlesticks" (Churches) will be involved, that means He was pointing to His very elect saints of two specific Churches in Revelation. Go figure it out, for He told us.

100% False, (The Saints) represent the (Two Witnesses) in Jerusalem who will lay dead in the street for 3.5 days

(The Saints) in Revelation 13:7 are the (Two Witnesses) in Revelation 11:7, same beast making war and overcoming the (Two Witnesses) the saints being overcome isn't the church on earth as you falsely suggest

Jerusalem will be the future camp of the (Two Witnesses) Jerusalem is the beloved city

"No" the Church won't be gathered in Jerusalem, as you falsely claim "The Saints" represents the entire church on earth, 100% False

Jerusalem Will Be The Future Camp Of The (Two Witnesses)

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

("The Saints" Represents The "Two Witnesses")

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

List of Protestant Reformers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not one of your names appears in the List of Protestant Reformers.

Wiki failed to educate you.

No, it failed to educate you. It reveals you don’t even know what a Protestant Reformer is.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

I disagree, the 6th beast king that was in John's day was the Roman emperor Domitian, which was documented by one of the early Church fathers. The 7th beast king, which John said was not yet, is for the very end of this present world which has not yet come even today. So how could that 7th beast be about the era of Apostle John at Patmos in 96 A.D.? Do the math, your idea just does not work.

Furthermore, we know per the SIGNS Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse, that the final generation on earth is who will see that final 7th beast king Antichrist, because the final one for this present world must come in the era when Jesus' 2nd coming happens.

And still furthermore, that final 7th beast king, the Antichrist for the end of this present world, is to setup the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in Jerusalem for the end of this world, just prior to Christ's future coming to destroy that Antichrist. That is what Lord Jesus revealed in His Olivet discourse and also Paul in 2 Thess.2, and Jesus again through John in Revelation 16 & 19. Why does when the setting up of that AOD matter?

It matters because no such event has ever happened in Jerusalem since the 2nd temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D., and the placing of the AOD Idol requires a standing traditional Jewish temple in Jerusalem to fulfill that Matthew 24:15 prophecy Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel. According to the Jewish historian Josephus, the 2nd temple burned down from inside when the Roman army tried to seize it. So they did not place the "abomination of desolation" idol in false worship like Daniel 11 prophecy requires which Jesus quoted to happen at the end of this world.

Only since 1948, when Israel became a nation again, have orthodox Jews in Jerusalem been planning and gathering materials to build their future 3rd temple in Jerusalem. Today they even have the cornerstone cut, and have even tried to place it on the temple mount a few years ago (the Israeli police stopped them, because the temple mount has been given to the Muslims' control per U.N. agreement.)


You are not understanding the Rev.17:8 idea of that beast ascending out of the bottomless pit and goes into perdition can ONLY mean Satan himself...

Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
KJV

Rev.17:8 does not tell us what 'number' of beast king that verse is describing.

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

Do you see a number 5, 6, 7, or 8 there above? I don't.

But what we DO... see is that descriptor - "and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:". That cannot be about anyone other than Satan himself, for he is the "king" and angel of the bottomless pit per Revelation 9:11.

That means one MUST... apply that "was, and is not;" phrase to Satan himself. And WHEN does he ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT per God's Word? I showed you already...

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
KJV

So what's your problem. You aren't having difficulty reading that above are you?

You still don’t get it. The passage, Revelation 17:9-11, is a riddle that most aren’t going to get, and you’re one of them.

Again, for the challenged, the eighth king is the one that WAS, AND IS NOT,

Revelation 17​

11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction.​

The king that IS, he’s the sixth,

Revelation 17​

10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.​

The ONE THAT IS, is the sixth king. The passage declares each one of the fallen kings WAS, AND IS NOT.

Again, for the challenged, each one of the fallen kings WAS AND IS NOT.

That means the eighth king was one of the five kings that had fallen. Again, for the challenged, the eight head is the antichrist and WAS BEFORE THE SIXTH KING.

Tell us, if the sixth king that IS, was Domitian, how can this future MAN of sin have lived before Domitian?

The Chapter clearly states the eighth king WAS before the SIXTH KING, who you say was the “Roman emperor Domitian.”

Again, how does your future PERSON of the antichrist live before the “Roman emperor Domitian?”

It makes no sense if it's Satan, because he WAS before the kings of Babylon. God is not the author of confusion, like your futurist dogma.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

Everyone here can see that you're dodging my question. Do you believe that we are in Christ's spiritual kingdom right now? Is He your King right now

Are you deaf and blind? I’ve said repeatedly Christ is not reigning as king now. The scriptures like Matthew 25:31 confirm he returns to reign on his throne.

Scripture teaches that the souls of dead people have consciousness (Luke 16:19-31, Rev 6:9-11, Mark 9:1-4, Mark 12:26-27). Why are you dodging that point? You're not addressing anything I brought up. Why do you cherry pick certain scriptures while ignoring the rest? Are you afraid to address the scriptures I brought up that show the souls of people being alive?

Tell me, is God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob right now? Keep in mind that He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


This verse does not support soul sleep. What this verse is saying is that God alone has always existed and always will. Human beings are created and are not immortal in the same sense that God is. Scripture only speaks of our bodies needing to be changed to put on immortality (1 Cor 15:35-54), not our souls and spirits.


That does not mean people sleep after physically dying until the judgment. That means once people physically die there is nothing they can do to change their eternal destinies which will be announced by Christ in the day of judgment.

Tell me, why did Jesus portray people as having consciousness after bodily death in Luke 16:19-31 is that wasn't true?

Why are the souls of dead martyrs portrayed as having consciousness in Revelation 6:9-11 if they don't actually have consciousness?

How was Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah at His transfiguration if those who are physically dead have no consciousness?


That is only speaking of the body. Do you not acknowledge what Paul taught, which is that we also have a soul and a spirit? Why do you ignore so much scripture?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Bodily. Where does it say that about our souls and spirits?


That passage is talking about no longer having consciousness "under the sun" which refers to our lives on the earth and says nothing about not having consciousness after we are no longer "under the sun". It's talking about them no longer being able to love, hate, envy and so on like they did while living their lives on earth under the sun. That does not mean they can't have consciousness where they go that is not under the sun (heaven or hell). You are missing the context of all of these scriptures.

Typical paganism, trying to make parables and visions support pagan dogma. The object of Lazarus’ parable is that there is no second chance when we die, not that that wicked are immortal and go to hell when they die. How do the condemned put on immortality? How silly.

The transfiguration is a vision, it portrays a future scene with Christ. Again, the saints put on immortality when Christ returns.

Again, what would souls be doing under the alter? That’s not the object of the fifth seal; it’s to warn us of a final judgment, not that the saints are in heaven.

As, for Mark 12:26-27, such pagan notions would make the OT authors liars. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, according to Solomon. I believe Soloman, not pagans. Abraham died and puts on immortality with all the saints when Christ returns, according to 1 Corinthians 15.

Your problem, like all misinformed believers, is that you’ve imbibed pagan doctrines and have mortals in heaven. There can be no doubt that the scriptures uphold we put on immortality when Christ returns, so if the saints are in heaven now it is without immortality. You have mortals in heaven!!!!!!!