Futurists Even Mis-Interpret Paul's 1 Thessalonians 4 Rapture

[Davy]

As I have said several times on this Forum already, I am NOT... a Futurist. Man's seminary leaven doctrine category they call Futurism is allied with man's false Pre-trib Rapture Theory, which Pre-trib Rapture idea is nowhere written in God's Word. Yet Futurists do... believe Christ's 2nd coming will be prior to His "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20, which seminaries called the Premillennium position. That Premill position is actually found written in God's Word.

Yet I have found that most... on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory do not... actually understand Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4, a Bible Chapter they often quote about their idea of a pre-tribulational rapture.

(Pre-trib means the idea that Lord Jesus comes PRIOR to the great tribulation to rapture His Church. They also wrongly believe that Jesus' 2nd coming is about Jesus returning to earth bring His Church back to earth with Him after the tribulation. Neither idea is written in God's Word. That means they believe in 3 comings by Lord Jesus, His 1st one to die on the cross, the 2nd one to rapture the Church to Heaven PRIOR to the tribulation, and the 3rd one about His "second coming" back to earth WITH His Church, after the tribulation. Now if that theory isn't a convoluted mess going against God's written Word, then I don't know what is. And if my saying that offends you because you are on man's false Pre-trib theory, then turn your channel.)


Let's see what Apostle Paul actually taught about Christ's coming to gather His Church in 1 Thess.4...

1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

Those ones "asleep" Paul mentions represent the saints in Christ that have already died. Paul says that if we believe that Lord Jesus died and was raised from the dead, then also those "asleep" saints will be, and Jesus will bring them with Him when He comes. Bring them from where though? From heaven, as they will be with Jesus once they are raised also.


15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

That KJV word "prevent" is actually in the Greek a word that means 'precede', or 'go beforehand'. Those of us still alive on earth shall not 'precede' those "asleep" saints that have already died in Christ. That is how the above verse should be read.


16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Paul is still talking about those "asleep" saints that have already died in Christ. When Lord Jesus DESCENDS from heaven with a shout, that is when those "asleep" saints will be resurrected. This is a MAJOR HINGE-POINT showing the TIMING of Christ's future coming to gather His Church, because Paul by this revealed this will only happen on the LAST DAY of this world. How can we know this for sure? It is because per written Scripture like John 6:40, Jesus said He will raise up His saints on the "last day". That of course means the last day of this present world, which is AFTER the "great tribulation", not prior to it.

So by that last phrase of the above verse, Apostle Paul just told us the timing when to expect Lord Jesus' coming to gather His Church being after... the tribulation, because Paul linked it to the future resurrection on the last day of this world.


17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

All the previous verses were about the "asleep" saints in Christ that had already died, which Jesus will bring with Him when He descends to earth. But this 17th verse is what many call the 'rapture', which the KJV uses the idea of being "caught up" in the "air" to Jesus as He descends to earth with the "asleep" saints.

Per Apostle Paul also in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, he said we shall all be 'changed' on the "last trump", and that is what the above being "caught up" in the "air" to Jesus is about when He comes on the last day of this world. That word "air" in the Greek can also be interpreted to mean 'the breath', so recall Genesis 2 about God breathing the 'breath of life' into Adam, and Adam became a 'living soul'. That linked with Paul's teaching about being changed to the "spiritual body" per 1 Cor.15 on the "last trump" is pointing to what that "caught up" to the "air" can mean on a deeper level. That future event will be when the veil of this flesh world will be suddenly cast off, at the twinkling of an eye.

Paul does not mention here in 1 Thess.4 just where... Lord Jesus will descend to when He comes, but he really should not have to; because that was already written in the Old Testament Book of Zechariah 14. On that day of Christ's coming, He with all His saints, will descend to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, on earth. And again, the Futurists on men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory do not believe this.

 

[ScottA]

As I have said several times on this Forum already, I am NOT... a Futurist. Man's seminary leaven doctrine category they call Futurism is allied with man's false Pre-trib Rapture Theory, which Pre-trib Rapture idea is nowhere written in God's Word. Yet Futurists do... believe Christ's 2nd coming will be prior to His "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20, which seminaries called the Premillennium position. That Premill position is actually found written in God's Word.

Yet I have found that most... on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory do not... actually understand Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4, a Bible Chapter they often quote about their idea of a pre-tribulational rapture.

(Pre-trib means the idea that Lord Jesus comes PRIOR to the great tribulation to rapture His Church. They also wrongly believe that Jesus' 2nd coming is about Jesus returning to earth bring His Church back to earth with Him after the tribulation. Neither idea is written in God's Word. That means they believe in 3 comings by Lord Jesus, His 1st one to die on the cross, the 2nd one to rapture the Church to Heaven PRIOR to the tribulation, and the 3rd one about His "second coming" back to earth WITH His Church, after the tribulation. Now if that theory isn't a convoluted mess going against God's written Word, then I don't know what is. And if my saying that offends you because you are on man's false Pre-trib theory, then turn your channel.)


Let's see what Apostle Paul actually taught about Christ's coming to gather His Church in 1 Thess.4...

1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

Those ones "asleep" Paul mentions represent the saints in Christ that have already died. Paul says that if we believe that Lord Jesus died and was raised from the dead, then also those "asleep" saints will be, and Jesus will bring them with Him when He comes. Bring them from where though? From heaven, as they will be with Jesus once they are raised also.


15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

That KJV word "prevent" is actually in the Greek a word that means 'precede', or 'go beforehand'. Those of us still alive on earth shall not 'precede' those "asleep" saints that have already died in Christ. That is how the above verse should be read.


16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Paul is still talking about those "asleep" saints that have already died in Christ. When Lord Jesus DESCENDS from heaven with a shout, that is when those "asleep" saints will be resurrected. This is a MAJOR HINGE-POINT showing the TIMING of Christ's future coming to gather His Church, because Paul by this revealed this will only happen on the LAST DAY of this world. How can we know this for sure? It is because per written Scripture like John 6:40, Jesus said He will raise up His saints on the "last day". That of course means the last day of this present world, which is AFTER the "great tribulation", not prior to it.

So by that last phrase of the above verse, Apostle Paul just told us the timing when to expect Lord Jesus' coming to gather His Church being after... the tribulation, because Paul linked it to the future resurrection on the last day of this world.


17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

All the previous verses were about the "asleep" saints in Christ that had already died, which Jesus will bring with Him when He descends to earth. But this 17th verse is what many call the 'rapture', which the KJV uses the idea of being "caught up" in the "air" to Jesus as He descends to earth with the "asleep" saints.

Per Apostle Paul also in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, he said we shall all be 'changed' on the "last trump", and that is what the above being "caught up" in the "air" to Jesus is about when He comes on the last day of this world. That word "air" in the Greek can also be interpreted to mean 'the breath', so recall Genesis 2 about God breathing the 'breath of life' into Adam, and Adam became a 'living soul'. That linked with Paul's teaching about being changed to the "spiritual body" per 1 Cor.15 on the "last trump" is pointing to what that "caught up" to the "air" can mean on a deeper level. That future event will be when the veil of this flesh world will be suddenly cast off, at the twinkling of an eye.

Paul does not mention here in 1 Thess.4 just where... Lord Jesus will descend to when He comes, but he really should not have to; because that was already written in the Old Testament Book of Zechariah 14. On that day of Christ's coming, He with all His saints, will descend to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, on earth. And again, the Futurists on men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory do not believe this.

How do you (personally) reconcile 1 Corinthians 15:23, which says, "every" [one] "man?"

1Co 15:23
But G1161 every man G1538 in G1722 his own G2398 order: G5001 Christ G5547 the firstfruits; G536 afterward G1899 they that are G3588 Christ's G5547 at G1722 his G846 coming. G3952

ἕκαστος hékastos, hek'-as-tos; as if a superlative of ἕκας hékas (afar); each or every:—any, both, each (one), every (man, one, woman), particularly.​

​

G2398 in the following manner: his own (48x), their own (13x), privately (8x), apart (7x), your own (6x), his (5x), own (5x), not translated (1x), miscellaneous (20x).​

 

[Davy]

How do you (personally) reconcile 1 Corinthians 15:23, which says, "every" [one] "man?"

1Co 15:23
But G1161 every man G1538 in G1722 his own G2398 order: G5001 Christ G5547 the firstfruits; G536 afterward G1899 they that are G3588 Christ's G5547 at G1722 his G846 coming. G3952

ἕκαστος hékastos, hek'-as-tos; as if a superlative of ἕκας hékas (afar); each or every:—any, both, each (one), every (man, one, woman), particularly.​

​

G2398 in the following manner: his own (48x), their own (13x), privately (8x), apart (7x), your own (6x), his (5x), own (5x), not translated (1x), miscellaneous (20x).​

You being a one-verse Charlie then? Is that single verse all that Apostle Paul said there? Why not read the rest of what Paul said there in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 about that specific subject?

 

[Davy]

Why can't brethren simply READ... the Scriptures, instead of playing guessing games with a single verse?

1 Cor 15:20-26
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Ah... "firstfruits" from Jewish festival tradition per the old covenant! So, that's what's important here with Paul's subject, JEWISH TRADITION per the old covenant??

No, not all. Paul was simply comparing Christ's resurrection being the FIRST resurrection to represent ETERNAL LIFE through His Blood shed upon His cross. The old covenant idea of firstfruits one can read about in Exodus 23. But what about the "feast of ingathering" at the end of the year Israel was to keep also per the old covenant?

Those things of the old covenant we in Christ are NO LONGER held to! So anyone going past that "firstfruits" idea applied to Christ's resurrection is just wasting their time.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Paul is simply pointing back to the previous verse about Christ's resurrection representing the opposite of what Adam's sin did for all. Difference is, those of the resurrection in Christ will only be those who believe on Jesus Christ as God's Promised Savior.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Same idea Paul just iterated.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.

What did God tell Moses in Exodus 23 about the festival of firstfruits and festival of in-gathering or end harvest? When brethren keep hitting on that "firstfruits" idea, they should understand that Israel was also required to present "ingathering" end harvest time produce to The Lord for sacrifice. Jesus' future coming to gather His Church symbolically... represents the 'ingathering' fall harvest.

24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
KJV

All those above 24 thru 26 verses must be understood together, not separated. They define... what Paul means by that "Then cometh the end, when...". And Paul is pointing directly to Christ's future "thousand years" reign over His enemies per the Revelation 20 Chapter. That includes Revelation 3:9 also, where Jesus told His elect there that He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship at their feet, which will only happen at His future return.

So what Paul was revealing in that 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 section of Scripture are events to occur after... Christ's death and resurrection, NOT just a "firstfruits" idea from the old covenant.

 

[ScottA]

You being a one-verse Charlie then? Is that single verse all that Apostle Paul said there? Why not read the rest of what Paul said there in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 about that specific subject?

One verse?...you mean like John 3:16? You mean like every word from God when He says "but", "thus", or "therefore?"

--But no, that is simply the qualifying verse, the verse that "but" clarifies the whole matter.

Let's look at your explanation verses:

1 Corinthians 15:24-28​

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.​

​

There is "but" again. Would you disregard that verse too then? --But again, no, because that is the qualifying and clarifying point of the whole passage.​

​

But what is your point? God's point was/is to clarify that Christ has authority over all except the Father unto the end.​

​

But now you have changed the subject, conveniently sidestepping the qualifying verse of when the Lord comes again (1 Corinthians 15:23)--and name calling...rather than acknowledging it.

 

[Davy]

One verse?...you mean like John 3:16? You mean like every word from God when He says "but", "thus", or "therefore?"

--But no, that is simply the qualifying verse, the verse that "but" clarifies the whole matter.

Let's look at your explanation verses:

1 Corinthians 15:24-28​

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

There is "but" again. Would you disregard that verse too then? --But again, no, because that is the qualifying and clarifying point of the whole passage.

But what is your point? God's point was/is to clarify that Christ has authority over all except the Father unto the end.

But now you have changed the subject, conveniently sidestepping the qualifying verse of when the Lord comes again (1 Corinthians 15:23)--and name calling...rather than acknowledging it.

I don't know where... in the world this mentally incapacitated person above is coming up with those supposed quotes that I said, when I never said any such things!

The above person is clearly... a LIAR of the first order! A charlatan who makes up LIES!

 

[ScottA]

I don't know where... in the world this mentally incapacitated person above is coming up with those supposed quotes that I said, when I never said any such things!

The above person is clearly... a LIAR of the first order! A charlatan who makes up LIES!

Oh sure, double down on your name calling! How Christian of you... Not to worry--since you deny what you posted, and apparently don't remember, I'll just quote you again. Here ya go:

You being a one-verse Charlie then? Is that single verse all that Apostle Paul said there? Why not read the rest of what Paul said there in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 about that specific subject?

PS, I'll take that as a "No" you cannot reconcile 1 Corinthians 15:23, which says the return of Jesus is to "every" [one] "man" individually in his own time.

 

[Davy]

Oh sure, double down on your name calling! How Christian of you... Not to worry--since you deny what you posted, and apparently don't remember, I'll just quote you again. Here ya go:


PS, I'll take that as a "No" you cannot reconcile 1 Corinthians 15:23, which says the return of Jesus is to "every" [one] "man" individually in his own time.

The above is DIFFERENT than what he claimed I said in his previous... post!

That proves beyond all... doubt that he is a charlatan of the first order and here to create chaos among the brethren!

 

[The Light]

Paul does not mention here in 1 Thess.4 just where... Lord Jesus will descend to when He comes, but he really should not have to; because that was already written in the Old Testament Book of Zechariah 14. On that day of Christ's coming, He with all His saints, will descend to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, on earth. And again, the Futurists on men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory do not believe this.

Why would anyone believe that 1 Thes 4 has anything whatsoever to do with Zechariah 14. 1 Thes 4 is about the Lord Himself coming for His bride. Zechariah 14 is about Christ setting His feet on the Mount of Olives after Armageddon. 1 Corinthians 15 is about the gathering from heaven and earth at the end of the age at the 6th seal.

You have no clue what you are talking about. You walk in blindness and yet yell the loudest about what you see.

You already KNOW that your claims are in error as you cannot explain why the stars fall from heaven after the tribulation as this proves your end time beliefs are in error.

I would think that you would study to show thyself approved as you know in your heart that your claims are incorrect.

 

[Davy]

Why would anyone believe that 1 Thes 4 has anything whatsoever to do with Zechariah 14.

Because, thou follower of the Jew's religion, it is because the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Scripture is about the day when Lord Jesus Christ comes to gather His Church! Further DETAIL of that is written in Zechariah 14... which Apostle Paul did NOT cover in that 1 Thessalonians 4 Chapter...

Zech 14:1-5
14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

ONLY someone who doesn't know The New Testament Scriptures would not know about that above Zechariah 14 connection to 1 Thessalonians 4.

 

[ScottA]

The above is DIFFERENT than what he claimed I said in his previous... post!

That proves beyond all... doubt that he is a charlatan of the first order and here to create chaos among the brethren!

The quotes don't lie, but these posts are very telling.

 

[CadyandZoe]

As I have said several times on this Forum already, I am NOT... a Futurist. Man's seminary leaven doctrine category they call Futurism is allied with man's false Pre-trib Rapture Theory, which Pre-trib Rapture idea is nowhere written in God's Word.

Do you believe in a pre-wrath rapture?

That means they believe in 3 comings by Lord Jesus, His 1st one to die on the cross, the 2nd one to rapture the Church to Heaven PRIOR to the tribulation, and the 3rd one about His "second coming" back to earth WITH His Church, after the tribulation.

Doesn't that depend on what we mean by "coming?" Some people mistakenly refer to the rapture of the church as the Second Coming of Christ. The biblical view of an "Advent" borrows language from the Roman period, in which a general or a king would "arrive" in a city to make his presence known and be glorified among the city's citizens.

In the same manner, Jesus entered the City of Jerusalem, riding on a donkey, while the children sang "Hosanna." That was his first Advent. During his second Advent, he will return to Jerusalem during a time when his people will say, "blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord." (Matthew 23:39, Mark 11:9, Luke 13:35) This event will involve a gathering of Jewish believers -- the remnant survivors -- in the city of Jerusalem. As Jesus said, he wished that this event would have taken place the first time, but it didn't. (Matthew 23:37)

Prior to that event, Jesus will gather his followers, both the living and the dead, to himself in the air. He pictures this event as a group of vultures flying over a corpse.

Those ones "asleep" Paul mentions represent the saints in Christ that have already died. Paul says that if we believe that Lord Jesus died and was raised from the dead, then also those "asleep" saints will be, and Jesus will bring them with Him when He comes. Bring them from where though? From heaven, as they will be with Jesus once they are raised also.

The place from which they come is not heaven, but the grave. Just as Christ was raised from the grave, those of his followers who have died will be raised from their graves to meet him in the air. This is NOT at the Second Advent. The Gathering of his church in the air will take place prior to the Second Advent.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

That KJV word "prevent" is actually in the Greek a word that means 'precede', or 'go beforehand'. Those of us still alive on earth shall not 'precede' those "asleep" saints that have already died in Christ. That is how the above verse should be read.

When Jesus calls his followers to come together with him in the air, both the living and the deceased will unite in this divine moment. Prior to this gathering, those who have passed away in faith—referred to as the dead in Christ—will rise from their graves, their bodies transformed and glorified. Once they have been resurrected, all of his devoted followers, both those who have endured life on Earth and those who have emerged from the tombs, will ascend simultaneously, soaring into the heavens to join their Savior in a beautiful reunion.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Paul is still talking about those "asleep" saints that have already died in Christ. When Lord Jesus DESCENDS from heaven with a shout, that is when those "asleep" saints will be resurrected. This is a MAJOR HINGE-POINT showing the TIMING of Christ's future coming to gather His Church, because Paul by this revealed this will only happen on the LAST DAY of this world.

Imagine a world where a single day stretches out to encompass a thousand years. In this perspective, the concept of the "Last Day" transforms dramatically; it isn't merely the concluding 24-hour span of time that marks the end of history. Instead, the Last Day signifies a monumental era — the final 1,000 years in the grand tapestry of existence. This reimagined timeline invites us to contemplate the profound implications of such an extended conclusion, where the culmination of time unfolds across generations, shaping destinies and histories in ways beyond our current understanding.

The rapture is when we are gathered TO him. The Second Advent is when He enters his city to make his presence known to the Jewish people alive at the time.

 

[The Light]

Because, thou follower of the Jew's religion, it is because the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Scripture is about the day when Lord Jesus Christ comes to gather His Church!

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 has nothing to do with Zechariah 14. Jesus comes when you think not. He tells you......and yet you don't believe.

Matthew 24
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Further DETAIL of that is written in Zechariah 14... which Apostle Paul did NOT cover in that 1 Thessalonians 4 Chapter...

The reason that Paul DID NOT COVER the details of Zechariah 14 in 1 Thessalonians 4 is because 1 Thes 4 has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Zechariah 14. The blind see things that are not there.

ONLY someone who doesn't know The New Testament Scriptures would not know about that above Zechariah 14 connection to 1 Thessalonians 4.

You have provided zero connection...........because there is none.

Why are you unable to see your constant errors and yet you see things that are not there.

At the 6th seal, the tribulation is over AND THEN the stars fall from heaven. This disproves your contention that the 6th seal is the 7th trumpet because you think the tribulation is the wrath of God. You are in error, and you know it. And yet you continue to push your nonsense without fear. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

 

[Davy]

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 has nothing to do with Zechariah 14. Jesus comes when you think not. He tells you......and yet you don't believe.

See what I mean brethren about those NOT familiar with Christ's coming per New Testament Doctrine?? If they don't know what The New Testament declares about it, then how would they understand when the Old Testament prophets were pointing to it by The Holy Spirit speaking through them??

The Light thus reveals a lack of New Testament Book Bible understanding and study. Otherwise he would understand how Zechariah 14 DIRECTLY relates to the day of Christ's 2nd coming and gathering of His Church per the 1 Thessalonians 4 Chapter!

Who cannot understand Zechariah 14:4 about Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives on that "day of the Lord"? Who cannot understand that the Mount of Olives is where Jesus ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1?

Who cannot understand Zechariah 14:5 about "...the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee" is about Christ's gathering of His saints and bringing them there to that Mount of Olives with Him when He comes on that "day of the Lord"?

I will tell you who... cannot understand those events -- BLINDED JEWS who reject them!

 

[The Light]

See what I mean brethren about those NOT familiar with Christ's coming per New Testament Doctrine?? If they don't know what The New Testament declares about it, then how would they understand when the Old Testament prophets were pointing to it by The Holy Spirit speaking through them??

The Old Testament prophet was declaring in Zechariah 14 that Jesus would set His feet on the mount of Olives after Armageddon. Paul was talking about the rapture of the Church in 1 Thes 4. The FACT you don't understand this is as to be expected.

The Light thus reveals a lack of New Testament Book Bible understanding and study. Otherwise he would understand how Zechariah 14 DIRECTLY relates to the day of Christ's 2nd coming and gathering of His Church per the 1 Thessalonians 4 Chapter!

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal before the wrath of God.............IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION. The Church is already in heaven BEFORE the tribulation. We both know it is you that lack understanding because you are continually proven wrong.

Who cannot understand Zechariah 14:4 about Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives on that "day of the Lord"? Who cannot understand that the Mount of Olives is where Jesus ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1?

Which has absolutely nothing to do with when the bridegroom comes for the bride.

Who cannot understand Zechariah 14:5 about "...the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee" is about Christ's gathering of His saints and bringing them there to that Mount of Olives with Him when He comes on that "day of the Lord"?

It's pretty obvious that you do not understand.

The tribulation is over at the sixth seal................and then the stars fall from heaven. WHY IS THAT? OOPS.

Shoots down your entire end times belief.

I will tell you who... cannot understand those events -- BLINDED JEWS who reject them!

And the blind roll on telling us what they see. You seem ignorant of the FACT that blindness in part is happened to Israel.......UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Davy]

The Old Testament prophet was declaring in Zechariah 14 that Jesus would set His feet on the mount of Olives after Armageddon. Paul was talking about the rapture of the Church in 1 Thes 4. The FACT you don't understand this is as to be expected.

I rest my case, brethren, The Light doesn't even understand what Christ's future coming to gather His faithful Church is about!

Who claiming to be Christian could NOT know about that?

Whether or not others do, I recognize that some who come here marking down that they are a Christian in their Profile actually are not true Christians, simply because of their lack of even knowing about things like this, like Christ's future coming to gather His saints. Orthodox unbelieving Jews are one group that would not know about that.

 

[The Light]

I rest my case, brethren, The Light doesn't even understand what Christ's future coming to gather His faithful Church is about!

LOL. You appear to know very little about the days as evidenced by your posts. But you sure can make a man chuckle.

Who claiming to be Christian could NOT know about that?

Do you claim to be a Christian? It appears you don't know about that.

Whether or not others do, I recognize that some who come here marking down that they are a Christian in their Profile actually are not true Christians, simply because of their lack of even knowing about things like this, like Christ's future coming to gather His saints. Orthodox unbelieving Jews are one group that would not know about that.

Ah. The name calling. It's ok. I understand. It's always good when the blind tell you what they see.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh sure, double down on your name calling! How Christian of you... Not to worry--since you deny what you posted, and apparently don't remember, I'll just quote you again. Here ya go:

He's a child.

PS, I'll take that as a "No" you cannot reconcile 1 Corinthians 15:23, which says the return of Jesus is to "every" [one] "man" individually in his own time.

It does not say every man individually in his own time. It says Christ's resurrection was first in order and next in order to be resurrected are those who belong to Christ at His second coming. All of the dead in Christ will be resurrected at the same time when He comes again.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As I have said several times on this Forum already, I am NOT... a Futurist.

Says the guy who sees all of the Olivet Discourse and a vast majority of the book of Revelation as having a future fulfillment. LOL. Okay, whatever you say, Futurist.

 

[ScottA]

It does not say every man individually in his own time. It says Christ's resurrection was first in order and next in order to be resurrected are those who belong to Christ at His second coming. All of the dead in Christ will be resurrected at the same time when He comes again.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

This of course has been viewed or interpreted differently than what I have outlined, so it is not unlikely that you would comment on it.

However, as I explained, much like the use of "therefore" etc. in scripture, verse 23 is the "but" (or therefore) of that passage, clarifying the whole matter. By definition, "every man" is used in singular, and confirmed in "his own" (also singular), as opposed to the matter referring to a group or mass, one time event. Because of this, some translations even state it as each "one" in his own order.

Many other passages also confirm the timing of Christ's return as individual and in one's own order or time, such as: the thief on the cross being told by Jesus "today you will be with Me in Paradise" and "behold, I stand (present tense) at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me"--just to name a few.

Much of what has been taught, is to be corrected.