THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[St. SteVen]

“No one has seen God at any time.”

Y’all keep forgetting that. On purpose?

That's not true. (just your mantra)

Furthermore...

John 14:8-9 NIV
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

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[Aunty Jane]

Only the physical body(Jesus) died on the Cross.

The Word that was God inside the physical body of Jesus NEVER died.

There is no scripture that says this….please explore what the verse you quoted actually meant to a Jew, rather than to biased trinitarian readers, misled by inaccurate translations.

Luke 23:44
Now it was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two.
And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ ”
Having said this, He breathed His last.

What was Jesus saying according to Jewish belief? Remember that Jesus was born Jewish and died Jewish….his last words reflect Jewish understanding about death and resurrection. Only Jews were his disciples at that time.

The “spirit” is what animates man…..it is what Adam received that made him a “soul”….a living, breathing creature.…”the breath (spirit) of life”. (Gen 2:7)
When the breath goes out of a soul, it dies. (Ezek 18:4)
Animals are “souls” just like we are….what made us unique however, was the ability to live forever without death overtaking us as it does naturally in the animal kingdom. But when sin entered into the world of mankind, death came with it….meaning that we lost the ability to live forever in mortal flesh.…being denied access to the only means to facilitate it. (Gen 3:22-24) We became just like the animals. (Eccl 3:20-21)

So the “spirit” in man was referred to by King David when he said….in Psalm 146:4…
”His spirit departs, he returns to the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.” (NASB)
The word “departs“ is taken to mean that something leaves the body….but what exactly is it that “departs”?
Something conscious? Not if their “thoughts perish” on that very day.

In Jewish understanding the “spirit” in man was the animating force that was sustained by breathing. Once the last breath departed from the body, the soul (person) died. Only God could restore life and its animating spirit by resurrection. So rather than belief in an immortal soul (something not even suggested in the Bible) resurrection meant being brought back to life. Any Jew hearing Jesus’ words would have understood exactly what he meant…..he was entrusting his God and Father to bring him back to life.
All the resurrections performed in the Bible were back to life in the flesh, so this is what Jews believed.

Being resurrected to life “in the spirit” however was a concept they would understand only after Pentecost. Jesus was the first one of mankind to experience that kind of resurrection……one that allowed him to return to heaven at his Father’s side in the form he had before his human birth….and one that would allow his “saints” to join him there, later.

There is so much assumed from the words of Scripture, which is why we need to study the Bible rather than just accept what translators have written. God’s word was written under his inspiration…..but translation is the work of men. Be aware of what that means….

 

[TheHC]

The Angel of the LORD is God, if you believe the Bible.

I never said other angels are God.


Then Manoah said to the Angel of the LORD, “What is Your name, that when Your words come to pass we may honor You?”
And the Angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?”
So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it upon the rock to the LORD. And He did a wondrous thing while Manoah and his wife looked on— it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar—the Angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar! When Manoah and his wife saw this, they fell on their faces to the ground. When the Angel of the LORD appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the LORD.
And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!”
Judges 13:17-22

• And the Angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?”

He shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God…

So, maybe it was Jesus.
That still doesn’t make him God.

In fact, it makes him “the angel of Jehovah.”

By the way, “Mighty God” isn’t Almighty God. And Isaiah 9:7 continues, “…Prince of Peace.”
Almighty God is no mere “prince”, He is the “King of Peace.”

 

[TheHC]

That's not true. (just your mantra)

Furthermore...

John 14:8-9 NIV
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

[

So now, Jesus is the Father?

Or, could it simply be that Jesus, being the “image of God”, perfectly mirrors his Father?

 

[TheHC]

Because the Devil mistakenly thought there was a chance at success?

So, ultimately you’re saying the Devil didn’t know the identity of Jesus? Who Jesus really was?

 

[RLT63]

I finally read post #3.

I'm surprised that Baptists aren't Trinitarian.

And it appears that I am more Catholic than Pentecostal. !!! How did that happen?

[

Baptists do believe in the Trinity, at least all the Baptist Churches I have attended here in the south

 

[St. SteVen]

So now, Jesus is the Father?

Or, could it simply be that Jesus, being the “image of God”, perfectly mirrors his Father?

You said:
TheHC said:
“No one has seen God at any time.”
Y’all keep forgetting that. On purpose?

Jesus said:
John 14:8-9 NIV
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

What do you think he meant?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Baptists do believe in the Trinity, at least all the Baptist Churches I have attended here in the south

Thanks.
That what I thought.
Maybe the article points from post #3 were unfounded?

[

 

[Aunty Jane]

That's not true. (just your mantra)

Furthermore...

John 14:8-9 NIV
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

[

“Like father, like son”…it’s not a difficult concept is it? He was “the image” of his Father in all respects except one….he is said to be the “image of the invisible God”….(Col 1:15)….so can one be an image of one who is not visible? He can only be like him in character and personality.

 

[TheHC]

Ritajanice said:
I believe Jesus had the ability to sin..I’m waiting to see their replies first, then I will post my opinion of why I think such a thing.

Reminds me of this.

Hebrews 4:15 NIV
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses,
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

[

And this reminds me of Paul’s words @ Hebrews 5:8 (Berean Standard Bible), regarding Jesus: “Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered.”

If Jesus couldn’t disobey, then why would he need to “learn obedience”? He always would have been.


Furthermore, if Jesus was God, why would God need to be obedient? Who would he need to be obedient to?

Take care, my cousin.

 

[St. SteVen]

If Jesus couldn’t disobey, then why would he need to “learn obedience”? He always would have been.

His mother was human.
He could disobey. He had his own will.

Luke 22:42 NIV
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

[

 

[Wrangler]

The Angel of the LORD is God, if you believe the Bible.

I never said other angels are God.

You can’t split the coin; all angels are of the LORD.

 

[St. SteVen]

JLB said:
The Angel of the LORD is God, if you believe the Bible.
I never said other angels are God.

You can’t split the coin; all angels are of the LORD.

The Angel of the Lord isn't technically an angel.

Who was in the burning bush?

Exodus 3:2 NIV
There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush.
Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up.

Exodus 3:11 NIV
But Moses said to God, “Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the Israelites out of Egypt?”

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[RLT63]

You can’t split the coin; all angels are of the LORD.

Reading the Old Testament it's clear that The Angel of the Lord is exceptional ( not AN Angel of the Lord)
He spoke from the burning bush but a few verses later his words are attributed to God himself.
This is no ordinary angel and some believe he is the pre-incarnate Jesus himself

 

[Wrangler]

ho was in the burning bush?

NOT Jesus!

The reason this passage troubles trinitarians is that it implies an angel is also identified as God and that makes more than 3.

 

[RLT63]

By Jesus!

The reason this passage troubles trinitarians is that it implies an angel is also identified as God and that makes more than 3.

It doesn't trouble me at all
Angel means messenger so this is the messenger of the Lord

 

[St. SteVen]

By Jesus!

The reason this passage troubles trinitarians is that it implies an angel is also identified as God and that makes more than 3.

Not really.

[

 

[RLT63]

Who is the angel of the Lord? | GotQuestions.org

Who is the angel of the Lord? Was the angel of the Lord a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Wrangler]

Reading the Old Testament it's clear that The Angel of the Lord is exceptional ( not AN Angel of the Lord)

Not at all. God. God almighty. LORD of Heavens Armies are not referring to an exceptional God but the same God.

Again, all angels are of God. That particular simply chose to add the phrase for emphasis. What you say could be true IF Scripture actually said that. The author does not refer to regular angels and then this Angel as exceptional, does it?

Said differently, since you are making the claim that this angel is exceptionally, prove it by Scripture.

 

[Wrangler]

This is no ordinary angel and some believe he is the pre-incarnate Jesus himself

Belief not founded on Scripture.