THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[Ritajanice]

Congrats.
Be sure to thank all your fine supporters. - LOL

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I was in such a rush to get there before you,hehehe.

Look how I headed my topic.look at the letters..hehe, LOL

THE Trinity can Now be discussed.​

 

[IronMaiden]

Numbers 23:19 (WEB)
(19) God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not make it good?
Malachi 3:6 (WEB):
(6) “For I, Yahweh, don’t change; therefore you, sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

EXACTLY - another CLEAR as DAY Declaration that the JESUS is God = the Word became flesh = One YHWH/LORD

I’m glad you now understand what I was saying yesterday. Whew! You thought I believed in modalism, remember? That was really hurtful.

I truly believe that the Trinity is One. We either believe scripture or we don’t. Consider these words with great care: GOD WITH US.

Matthew 1:23 (NKJV) “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
——————
John 14:7-11 (NKJV) 7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” 8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority;] but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 “Believe Me that I [am] in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

 

[David in NJ]

I’m glad you now understand what I was saying yesterday. Whew! You thought I believed in modalism, remember? That was really hurtful.

I truly believe that the Trinity is One. We either believe scripture or we don’t. Consider these words with great care: GOD WITH US.

Matthew 1:23 (NKJV) “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
——————
John 14:7-11 (NKJV) 7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” 8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority;] but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 “Believe Me that I [am] in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

That was really hurtful.

NEVER intended to be my Brother
We are on a forum - very short/brief communication - i was only asking = never take offense when someone asks

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

We either believe scripture or we don’t

AMEN

Consider these words with great care: GOD WITH US.

Amen to the FATHER
Amen to the SON
Amen to the Holy Spirit

THREE in ONE

 

[Aunty Jane]

The fallen angers were not 'spirits' in Noahs day for they left their spiritual domain and took on flesh - Jude

Not to go off topic, but that is not correct. The rebellious spirits did materialize flesh in Noah’s day, and even produced children who were hybrid freaks, gigantic in size and violent and immoral in nature…they had no right to exist because they were not sons of Adam.

I believe that God brought about a global deluge for two reasons….he needed to destroy these monstrous humanoids, as well as to remove their wicked influence on the people, now adapted to their evil environment like the people of Sodom.…..they were obviously incorrigible.…irreformable.

Couldn’t God have just wiped them all out with a wave of his hand? Yes! But he chose to do things this way for a reason.….he was creating a type or shadow for what was to come. (Matt 24:37-39)

But the other reason that God brought the flood is because only land dwelling, air breathing creatures would be affected by it…..those creatures who lived in the water did not need saving. So what was there about water that prevented the materialized demons from invading their bodies like they came to do later as the scriptures attest? We really don’t know, but we do know that water is unique in its properties, like no other liquid in existence. Only air breathing land dwellers were later targets of the demons for possession.

Recall that the demons asked Jesus to allow them to enter a herd of swine, which they then plunged off a precipice and they all died. Humans were often their targets and possession by them caused much anguish back in Bible times.

The flood forced these air breathers to dematerialize and return to the spirit form they previously had, which means that “the spirits in prison” were demon angels who now had the ability to materialize flesh, taken away from them. They were put into a prison-like state, (Tartarus) restricting their activities.
After the flood, there is no mention of them being able to materialize again, and yet faithful angels still did.

There were no “spirits” of dead people in any spiritual prison because there were no dead people who were still alive. The dead are in Sheol/hades…a place of unconscious inactivity. (Eccl 9:5, 10) The Jews had no belief in an immortal soul…that idea came from the pagan Greeks. Jews were taught about resurrection, which was a later restoration of life, not a continuation of it somewhere else.

Same Lord that appeared to Moses?

Yes, in the Jewish Tanakh it says….Ex 3:2..

“An angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from within the thorn bush, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, but the thorn bush was not being consumed.”

בוַיֵּרָ֠א מַלְאַ֨ךְ יְהֹוָ֥ה אֵלָ֛יו בְּלַבַּת־אֵ֖שׁ מִתּ֣וֹךְ הַסְּנֶ֑ה וַיַּ֗רְא וְהִנֵּ֤ה הַסְּנֶה֙ בֹּעֵ֣ר בָּאֵ֔שׁ וְהַסְּנֶ֖ה אֵינֶ֥נּוּ אֻכָּֽל:

“An angel of Yahweh”….the “LORD” is Yahweh and his son was the primary “angel” who spoke as his Father’s representative. In Daniel, Michael is spoken of as the Commander of the angelic forces, and elsewhere, so is Jesus. We know that Jesus has more than one name because he said so. And we know that Yahweh is still his God, even in heaven.
In Rev 3:12, he said…..”He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.”

Four times in that one verse he calls the Father “my God”, written long after his ascension to heaven. But he also mentions his “new name”.
The Father has one name, in all of Scripture, it is the same, but the son has more than one. The Holy Spirit has no name at all.

 

[St. SteVen]

I was in such a rush to get there before you,hehehe.

Look how I headed my topic.look at the letters..hehe, LOL

THE Trinity can Now be discussed.​

Haste makes waist. - LOL

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Baptist definition of the Trinity
We believe that there is one, and only one, living and true God and infinite, intelligent Spirit, the Maker and Supreme Ruler of Heaven and Earth

Catholics believe in one single God, who made Himself known to the world (revelation) as three separate persons: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. This is known as the doctrine of the Trinity, and is a fundamental belief for all Catholics.

Pentecostal definition of the Trinity
The doctrine states that there is one God, a singular divine spirit with no distinction of persons….who manifests himself in many ways, including as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This stands in sharp contrast to the doctrine of three distinct, eternal persons posited by Trinitarian theology.

Then there are those that believe Yeshua is the “one” and only God... representing three aspects of God or even Christ being the God that created the Heavens and Earth. Which would pretty much invalidate the entire Old Testament and the Apostle’s Creed, where God the Father is the Creator, or even the concept of God being the Father.

I finally read post #3.

I'm surprised that Baptists aren't Trinitarian.

And it appears that I am more Catholic than Pentecostal. !!! How did that happen?

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[Aunty Jane]

Here in context, see the jews complained as Christ said He came down from Heaven, so He was in Heaven before being born as a man, and they hated that.

Add to that his miracles that the Pharisees could not deny, but had to attribute his works to Beelzebub in order to explain them away. They had no works to counter what Jesus was doing, drawing large crowds to hear his words and to receive the healing that he brought to them physically and spiritually.

Christ also saw Him as He was in the bosum of the Father which proves His divinity, so see here implies intimacy and knowledge of God the Father, which normal men lack completely, and angels can see God the Father but don't fully know His thoughts like Christ does.
In human terms, a loving intimacy of a father for a child is an appropriate POV here.
John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Luke 16:23
And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

John 13:23
Now there was leaning on Jesus’ bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved.

The “bosom“ referred to what is mentioned there in John 13:23. This was at Jesus’ last Passover with his apostles and the “bosom“, according to Strongs meant.…”of the one who so reclines at table that his head covers the bosom as it were, the chest, of the one next him”…..so it was a position at a meal where the one reclining closest to the host was considered a favored one. John was referred to as such a favored one.

In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man was said to be in the “bosom of Abraham” figuratively a position of favor with God, that was taken away from the rich man and given to the beggar.
This occurred when the Pharisees lost God’s favor and the spiritually impoverished “lost sheep” who responded to Jesus, gained it. The Pharisees were losing their grip and it infuriated them when Jesus exposed their hypocrisy. (Matt 15:7-9; Matt 23:33)

John 6
41 The Jews then [g]complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, [h]“Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [i]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes [j]in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

Yes, all through Scripture, the pre-human Jesus is featured in many ways as “the angel of the Lord” who spoke to Moses, and as the one who represented his Father to the enslaved Jews through the ten plagues, and when he guided them through the wilderness, parted the Red Sea, and directed God’s people and provided for them in the wilderness.

Jesus was the conduit for the operation of God’s spirit all through biblical history. He was always “the Word”……his Father’s spokesman….the one who represented his Father to the fallen human race.
Without his mediatorship, we would have lost our relationship with the Father altogether. The son was apointed as the “go-between”…the one who facilitated communication between us and our Creator, and he “came down from heaven” to lay down his life to bring us back to him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I finally read post #3.

I'm surprised that Baptists aren't Trinitarian.

And it appears that I am more Catholic than Pentecostal. !!! How did that happen?

[

I was a baptist.

I attended many different baptist churches all across this country

every one I attended believed in the trinity

not sure where he got his info. But it is false.. I have never met a baptist who does not believe in the trinity

 

[face2face]

That’s easy!
P1. God cannot die.
P2. Death is the wages of sin.
C. Proportion for our sins must come through a mortal Being.

Trinitarians invent this fiction that only God can pay for the sins of the world. This contradicts Scripture that sin entered the world by one man and by one man, the New Adam, sin will be defeated.

@Aunty Jane has written a great piece on this, which is very thorough with many Scripture verses.

Agree....The Apostle Paul does also:

15:45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 1 Co 15:45.

F2F

 

[JLB]

Do you have a back story for this statement? Maybe a NT writer quoting an OT passage providing this insight.
F2F

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

 

[TheHC]

I believe Jesus had the ability to sin..I’m waiting to see their replies first, then I will post my opinion of why I think such a thing.

Yes, Jesus could have sinned, ie., turned against His Father.

Otherwise, why would the Devil try to tempt him?

Reasoning on Scriptural context, is vital.

 

[face2face]

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

That's correct, Christ is the only Man to have passed through the Heavens (Holy of Holies) to sit at the right hand of the Father on High.

 

[RedFan]

Yes, Jesus could have sinned, ie., turned against His Father.

Otherwise, why would the Devil try to tempt him?

Because the Devil mistakenly thought there was a chance at success?

 

[JLB]

So, the legions of Angels are now also God? Yet you hold to 3.

The Angel of the LORD is God, if you believe the Bible.

I never said other angels are God.


Then Manoah said to the Angel of the LORD, “What is Your name, that when Your words come to pass we may honor You?”
And the Angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?”
So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it upon the rock to the LORD. And He did a wondrous thing while Manoah and his wife looked on— it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar—the Angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar! When Manoah and his wife saw this, they fell on their faces to the ground. When the Angel of the LORD appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the LORD.
And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!”
Judges 13:17-22

• And the Angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?”

He shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God…

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Angel of the LORD is God, if you believe the Bible.

I never said other angels are God.


Then Manoah said to the Angel of the LORD, “What is Your name, that when Your words come to pass we may honor You?”
And the Angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?”
So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it upon the rock to the LORD. And He did a wondrous thing while Manoah and his wife looked on— it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar—the Angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar! When Manoah and his wife saw this, they fell on their faces to the ground. When the Angel of the LORD appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the LORD.
And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!”
Judges 13:17-22

• And the Angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?”

He shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God…

Amen,

The lord God of israel came many times as in human form,

 

[face2face]

Yes, Jesus could have sinned, ie., turned against His Father.

Otherwise, why would the Devil try to tempt him?

Reasoning on Scriptural context, is vital.

From James:

But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. James 1:14

From Paul: (likely)

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Heb 4:15

You can try and force an external tempter HC but all temptations are internal.

From Christ:

Matthew 15:18-20 But the words you speak come from the heart (mind)—that's what defiles you. For from the heart (mind) come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands will never defile you.”

Notice how Christ states thoughts but lists actions. The temptation is conceived in the mind (James 1) and carried out by the body.

I understand you and Jane have this fallen angel thing going on but rest assured the false accuser or adversary has long been the nature we bare and its passions and evil desires.

Christ had our nature and was tempted in that nature even more than we are due to him having His Father Power without measure.

Hope that helps

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

Ritajanice said:
I believe Jesus had the ability to sin..I’m waiting to see their replies first, then I will post my opinion of why I think such a thing.

Yes, Jesus could have sinned, ie., turned against His Father.

Otherwise, why would the Devil try to tempt him?

Reasoning on Scriptural context, is vital.

Reminds me of this.

Hebrews 4:15 NIV
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses,
but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

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[TheHC]

Amen,

The lord God of israel came many times as in human form,

“No one has seen God at any time.”

Y’all keep forgetting that. On purpose?

 

[face2face]

• And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush.
• And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
  
  
  Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”And he said, “Here I am.” Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6

The scripture plainly says The Angel of the LORD appeared to Moses.

Moses was afraid to look upon God.



The only two people in this passage of scripture is Moses and the Angel of the LORD.

God placed his name in the Angel of His Presence.

"Yahweh thy God, He will go over before thee" — Deut 31:3

Yahweh, as ever, would continue to lead the people as "the great Shepherd of Israel" (Psa. 77:20; 78:52-54; 80:1). This would be through the Angel of His presence (Exod 23:20-23; Isa. 63:9).

Please Trinitarians, don't destroy the truth of this manifestation of God in the wilderness.

"And He will destroy these nations from before thee and thou shalt possess them" — Through the appointed Angel in whom He had placed His name, Yahweh would obtain victory for Israel (Exod 23:20-23; Josh. 5:13-15).

This is NOT Jesus - he is a son of promise yet to be born.

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

Because the Devil mistakenly thought there was a chance at success?

Interesting to compare the opening lines between the Fall in the Garden and the temptation in the wilderness.

Genesis 3:1 NIV
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made.
He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

Matthew 4:3 NIV
The tempter came to him and said,
“If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

[