THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

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Wrangler

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I noticed there are no trinitarian takers in post #148 for the importance of believing the trinity.

They are so adamant that man-is-god, that they cannot tie the importance of this to anything in Scripture. They hyperventilate at their IDOL threatened but it goes nowhere Scripturally.

BTW, what did you make of my ABC's and 123's?

 
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Ritajanice

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Again, going back to the absurdity of equality, the most powerful, demonstrable fact that Jesus is not God and not equal to God is that Jesus died. God did not.

Think about it. How can you say these 2 persons are equal when one cannot change or die and one did? God does not have a "human nature" like Jesus does. Even if you accept the Father and Holy Spirit are God, they have one nature; Spirit. They claim Jesus has 2.

In trinity land:
1 = 3 (persons)​
1 = 2 (natures)​
Excellent posts, Brother, imo..Praise God...certainly resonating with my spirit...just my thoughts.
 

David in NJ

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The name of his God and Father....who only has one name, (Psalm 83:18) whereas Jesus has several.

Yes he did.....a name that the Jews had long since neglected to repeat, in spite of their mandate through Moses to keep God’s name as something “hallowed”.....as Jesus said in the Lord’s Prayer.

Exodus 3:13-15. From the Jewish Tanakh....

13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.”טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

Despite the fact that the Jews refrained from uttering the divine name, they actually kept it in their text.
Where you see “The Lord God” there in English....look and see the Tetragrammaton in the Hebrew text.
So the name Jesus came to bring back to God’s Christian worshippers was יְהֹוָ֞ה .....YAHWEH.

Jacob’s name was changed to “Israel” after his contending with an angel......the children of Israel were all his descendants. Yahweh was their one God.

Deut 6:4...
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one.דשְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהֹוָ֥ה | אֶחָֽד:

“The Lord” is “YAHWEH”.

And the English translation of that is JEHOVAH. (Psalm 83:18 KJV)
JESUS never used YAHWEH

JESUS gave the SAME Name that HE gave to Moses

Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers,
Elohe of Abraham, = FATHER
Elohe of Isaac, = SON
Elohe of Jacob, = HOLY SPIRIT
has sent me to you.
This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’

the God
אֱלֹהֵ֨י (’ĕ·lō·hê)
Noun - masculine plural construct
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God
 

RedFan

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Again, going back to the absurdity of equality, the most powerful, demonstrable fact that Jesus is not God and not equal to God is that Jesus died. God did not.

Think about it. How can you say these 2 persons are equal when one cannot change or die and one did? God does not have a "human nature" like Jesus does. Even if you accept the Father and Holy Spirit are God, they have one nature; Spirit. They claim Jesus has 2.

In trinity land:
1 = 3 (persons)​
1 = 2 (natures)​
I have to disagree. The syllogism you accuse Trinitarians of adopting,

1. Jesus is God;
2. Jesus died; therefore
3. God died

is not an accurate portrayal of our view. Our view, rather, is that

1. Jesus is God, but upon becoming incarnate, was both God and man;
2. Jesus the man died; therefore
3. Jesus qua God did not die.
 
J

Johann

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I do think the Messiah is God, but I don't think the Scriptural support for it is, as you put it,"consistent." I think verses can be marshaled on both side of the issue (see my Post #42) -- largely because most NT authors (Paul being one) were not terribly concerned to advance the thesis. John's gospel comes closest.
Very well, I shall omit the term 'consistent'; however, I find myself largely in agreement with you on this matter, @RedFan. That said, on these specific points, I remain resolute.


Titus 2:13
"Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."

Greek: tou megalou Theou kai Sōtēros hēmōn Iēsou Christou.

Great God and our Saviour -- Strict grammar would apply both God and Saviour to Jesus Christ.

God is Savior in Tit_1:3, Tit_2:10, Tit_3:4
Christ is Savior in Tit_1:4, Tit_3:6; cf. 2Pe_1:1.


Both "God" (Theos) and "Savior" (Sōtēros) refer to Jesus Christ, identifying Him as "our great God and Savior."

2. 2 Peter 1:1
"To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ."

Greek: tou Theou hēmōn kai Sōtēros Iēsou Christou.

Again, "God" (Theos) and "Savior" (Sōtēros) describe the same person, Jesus Christ.

God and Savior Jesus Christ -- Christ is God and Savior, verse 2Pe_1:1 ; He is Lord, 2Pe_1:2 ; God is His Father 2Pe_1:17. cf. Tit_2:13. (See note at 2Pe_1:11)

Gramatically, this entire phrase is attributed to Jesus alone.

of God and our Saviour. Gr. of our God and Saviour. Note: This is certainly the literal and proper rendering of the original, του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ημων ιησου χριστου, and should have been received in the text: it is an absolute proof that St. Peter calls Jesus GOD, in the most proper sense of the term. This construction has reference to one person, not two (see A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, and Grammar, p. 786). 2Pe_1:1; 2Pe_1:11, 2Pe_2:20; 2Pe_3:2; **2Pe_3:18, Isa_45:22, *Isa_12:2; *Isa_45:21, Mat_16:16, Luk_1:47, *Joh_1:1 note. Joh_4:42; Joh_5:23; +*Joh_20:28, Act_5:31; Act_13:23, +Rom_9:5 note. Eph_5:23, Php_3:20, 2Th_1:12, 1Ti_1:1, +2Ti_1:10, +*Tit_2:13 note. Heb_1:8, 1Jn_4:14, +*Jud_1:4.

3. 2 Thessalonians 1:12
"So that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ."

Greek: tou Theou hēmōn kai Kyriou Iēsou Christou.

While not as unambiguous as Titus 2:13 or 2 Peter 1:1, some interpreters argue this follows the Granville Sharp Rule, making "God" and "Lord Jesus Christ" a single referent.

4. Romans 9:5
"To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen."

Greek: ho ōn epi pantōn Theos eulogētos eis tous aiōnas.

Although this verse does not strictly follow the Granville Sharp Rule, it explicitly describes Christ as "God over all."

5. John 20:28
"Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!'"

Greek: Ho Kyrios mou kai ho Theos mou.

Although not structured under the Granville Sharp Rule, Thomas directly addresses Jesus as both "Lord" (Kyrios) and "God" (Theos), affirming His deity.

Additional Notes:
These verses illustrate how the New Testament authors emphasize the divine identity of Jesus through careful grammatical construction.

The Granville Sharp Rule applies specifically to Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 but also provides interpretive clarity for other passages when comparing Greek syntax.

J.
 
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Wrangler

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I have to disagree. The syllogism you accuse Trinitarians of adopting,

1. Jesus is God;
2. Jesus died; therefore
3. God died

is not an accurate portrayal of our view. Our view, rather, is that

1. Jesus is God, but upon becoming incarnate, was both God and man;
2. Jesus the man died; therefore
3. Jesus qua God did not die.
This is not a syllogism but a demonstration of circular reasoning; Your 1st premise is the conclusion, you are pretending to use logic to "support." And a syllogism does not have 3 premises. It has 2 premises and a deductive conclusion from those premises, e.g.,:
P1. God cannot die. (Isaiah 40:28, 1 Timothy 1:17)​
P2. Jesus died.​
C. Jesus is NOT God.​
Regarding the trinitarian view, I already stated it. When I write that the trinity is not found anywhere in Scripture, I mean that neither the word nor the concept of the trinity is explicitly in the Bible. To avoid the inevitable Appeal to Strawman, there simply is no verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. If there were such a verse, it would be the most quoted verse in Scripture by those who claim one’s salvation depends on believing it. The concept of the trinity is so important that in 66 books, it is not mentioned once!
 
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Eternally Grateful

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So funny how trinitarians reach for this kind of "support," relying on ignorant masses who misunderstood much of what Jesus said. A corollary to this is Jesus did not rebuke them AS IF he has that burden. Why don't you address the points I made in post #148?
But Jesus did say, before abraham was in the english “I am”. In the Greak, he used the same words as he did to moses in the Septuagint, Ego Eimi, literally I I am, Ort I am who I am, Or I am and I have always been, litterly the always existent one.

Thats why the fell black and picked up stones to stone him,. He claimed diety, He also caimed he was the god ot Moses (which he was, as I proved by using Isaiah 48, as the creator sent buy the father and his spirit. They are one and the same person
 

Eternally Grateful

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Sad that trinitarians are so devoted to the IDOL, they cannot acknowledge ANY of the many valid points against it, e.g., there is only "God the Father" in Scripture and every epistle identifies this one God and only this one God, not "God the Son" and not "God the HS."
well actually I have not seen any again, But so many for has been posted to you who say Jesus was a mere man. And took the price of sin for all mankind (impossible)

If Jesus was not God, he could pay for one persons sin, thats all. Whose sin then did he pay for?
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Agree..there is only one God, he made the universe..

Jesus is not God.

The Holy Spirit is not God..they were sent by God.,in Jesus Name...Amen!
Again

Jesus is the creator. He was before abraham was.

can you tell me what Church you go to? You have some very strange doctrines.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Not at all. The trinity is not in the Bible. It's such a simple point, even a trinitarian can understand it.
See here you go again, totally unable to respond to my post. And the proof that i showed in the text.

Your right, the word trinity is not in scripture. But the term bible is not in scripture either. Nor is the term christianity. But I am sure you use these all the time.

again, The word does not need to be in the word for the “doctrine Al truth” to be true.
This is pathetic. Isaiah said these words. Does that make him God?
So the hi man prophet created the earth. The human prophet spread out the universe and hold it in placE. The human priophet was the first and the last. The human prophet was the redeemer?

For a man who is trying to support his belief systemn, you are not doing very well.
You cannot get away from the fact that prophets, like Isaiah and Jesus speak the words of God. It does not make them God.
You just made my point for me, they spoke the words of God. So now we know that the words I posted to you are the words of GOD.

And that God was sent by the father and the Holy Spirit.

WHO IS THE GOD OF ISRAEL?
Regarding the question of God sending himself, no. Jesus admits he was sent, proving he is not God. You cannot get away from this.
God did not send himself. The father and spirit sent him.

can you read the passage and break it down for me, or is this to hard for you?
 
J

Johann

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Who is Jesus Christ? One is hard-pressed to think of a more important question. Many have tried to fit Jesus into their particular worldview, and in doing so have tragically misunderstood who He is. There has therefore been a plethora of false teaching about Jesus since He walked the earth, even among professing Christians.

In contrast, orthodox Christians have carefully summarized the Bible’s teaching on the person of Christ in the doctrine of the hypostatic union. There are three key elements in this doctrine.

The Full Deity of Christ
The first is the full deity of Christ. The Bible insists that Jesus Christ is fully God. He is explicitly called “God” in several places (e.g., John 1:1, 18; 20:28; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8). He has divine attributes, such as omniscience (John 16:20; 21:17), omnipotence (Matt. 8:26–27; cf. Ps. 107:28–29), omnipresence (Matt. 18:20; 28:20; Rom. 8:10), and eternity (John 1:1; 8:58).

Divine titles are ascribed to Him (e.g., “Son of God,” John 5:18; “I Am,” John 8:58; “Alpha and Omega,” Rev. 22:13). He performs divine acts, such as creating (John 1:3), sustaining all things (Col. 1:17), forgiving sins (Mark 2:1–12; Acts 5:31), granting salvation and eternal life (John 3:16; Acts 4:12; Rom. 10:12–17), raising the dead (John 5:21; 6:40; 11:1–44), and exercising final judgment (John 5:19–29; Acts 10:42). He is identified with Yahweh in the Old Testament (cf. John 12:40–41 with Isa. 6:1–10). He receives from human beings what is appropriate for only God to receive, such as worship (Matt. 14:33; 28:9, 17; Heb. 1:6; Rev. 5:8–12), prayer (Acts 7:59–60; 9:1–17; 1 Cor. 1:2), and trust for salvation (Acts 10:42–43; 16:31; Rom. 10:8–13). It is no exaggeration to say that if Jesus is not fully divine, then the Christian faith is blasphemous.

The Full Humanity of Christ
The second key element of the hypostatic union is the full humanity of Christ. While affirming His deity, the Bible insists on His full humanity at the very same time. He Himself acknowledged His own humanity (Matt. 4:3–4; John 8:40) as did those who knew Him (Acts 2:22; Mark 6:1–6). The New Testament writers affirm His humanity (1 Tim. 2:5; John 1:14; Gal. 4:4; 1 Cor. 15:21), and John warns of the seriousness of denying it (1 John 4:2–3).

“There has therefore been a plethora of false teaching about Jesus since He walked the earth, even among professing Christians.”

He was born like us (Luke 2:7), grew up like us (Luke 2:40, 47), ate, drank, and slept like us (Matt. 8:23–24; 4:2; John 4:6; 19:28), experienced the whole range of emotions like us (Matt. 26:38; 8:10; 9:36; John 11:35; 12:27; Mark 3:5), was tempted like us (Matt. 4:1–11; Heb. 4:15), and even physically died like us (Luke 23). Without Jesus’ full humanity, He could not be our faithful high priest who dealt with our sin on our behalf (Heb. 2:14–18), nor could He be the true Son of David and thus our messianic deliverer in fulfillment of prophecy (Rom. 1:2–3; cf. Matt. 1 and Luke 3), nor could He be the second Adam, the paradigm for redeemed humanity (1 Cor. 15:45–49; Rom. 5:12–21).

The Unity in Christ
The third key element of the hypostatic union is the reality that Jesus’ divine and human natures are united in His one person. The Greek word hypostasis was the term used in the early church for the person of Christ—hence “hypostatic union.” Because Scripture always presents Christ as one person, those two natures are genuinely united in His one person; He is not divided into two people, a divine Jesus and a human Jesus. Yet, because Scripture upholds the integrity of those two natures as complete, they are not mixed together into some hybrid nature, neither fully human nor fully divine.

In sum, the doctrine of the hypostatic union maintains that, as a result of His incarnation, Jesus Christ has both a fully divine and a fully human nature, which are forever united in His one person without any mixture, change, or separation. This biblical doctrine was formally affirmed in the Chalcedonian Creed of 451, a creed embraced by all orthodox Christians up to the present day. The creed sought to address the challenges of various Christological heresies (false teachings about the person of Christ) that had arisen up to that point.

Hypostatic Heresies
What are some of those heresies? Several of them opposed the true deity of Christ. For example, the Ebionites were an early Jewish-Christian sect that viewed Jesus only as a human Messiah endowed with special divine power.

Far more significant was Arianism, which claimed that Christ was the first and greatest created being who, though God-like, was not truly God.

Other heresies have rejected Christ’s true humanity.
For example, docetism believed that human flesh was inherently evil and thus incompatible with Christ’s deity. They therefore denied that Christ was human at all, insisting that He only seemed to be human (the name comes from the Greek dokeo-, “to seem or appear”).

More subtly, Apollinarianism denied Christ’s full humanity as it asserted that the divine Christ took on a human body but not a human spirit. And then some heresies denied the unity of these two complete natures in Christ’s one person. Nestorianism, for instance, so downplayed the union of the two complete natures that it ended up treating Jesus like two people (one human, one divine). At the opposite end of the spectrum, monophysitism (or Eutychianism, named after a prominent advocate) so stressed the union of the two natures that it effectively merged the two natures into one divinely-dominated nature.

Why Does This Matter?
While the careful formulation of the doctrine of the hypostatic union is noteworthy, how much does it really matter after all? Isn’t it enough just to believe in and love Jesus? That’s crucial, to be sure, but one must in fact believe in and love the real Jesus. John affirms that one who gets the person of Christ wrong— whether in His deity or humanity—actually opposes Him and is excluded from a relationship with God (1 John 2:22–23; 4:2–3; 5:5). There are very good reasons for this, some of which we saw earlier. But consider two more.

First, Christ is the mediator between God and humans (1 Tim. 2:5). In our union with Him in His full humanity, He brings us to God; in His identity as truly divine, He brings God to us; and in the unity of both natures in His person, He fully reconciles us to God.

Second, Christ is the sufficient sacrifice for our sins, but only as fully human can He take the place of human beings, and only as God can He fully satisfy the penalty for humanity’s sins. This sufficient sacrifice depends not only on the hypostatic union but also on His sinless life, a doctrine to which we now turn.


J.
 

RedFan

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Very well, I shall omit the term 'consistent'; however, I find myself largely in agreement with you on this matter, @RedFan. That said, on these specific points, I remain resolute.


Titus 2:13
"Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."

Greek: tou megalou Theou kai Sōtēros hēmōn Iēsou Christou.

Great God and our Saviour -- Strict grammar would apply both God and Saviour to Jesus Christ.

God is Savior in Tit_1:3, Tit_2:10, Tit_3:4
Christ is Savior in Tit_1:4, Tit_3:6; cf. 2Pe_1:1.


Both "God" (Theos) and "Savior" (Sōtēros) refer to Jesus Christ, identifying Him as "our great God and Savior."

2. 2 Peter 1:1
"To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ."

Greek: tou Theou hēmōn kai Sōtēros Iēsou Christou.

Again, "God" (Theos) and "Savior" (Sōtēros) describe the same person, Jesus Christ.

God and Savior Jesus Christ -- Christ is God and Savior, verse 2Pe_1:1 ; He is Lord, 2Pe_1:2 ; God is His Father 2Pe_1:17. cf. Tit_2:13. (See note at 2Pe_1:11)

Gramatically, this entire phrase is attributed to Jesus alone.

of God and our Saviour. Gr. of our God and Saviour. Note: This is certainly the literal and proper rendering of the original, του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ημων ιησου χριστου, and should have been received in the text: it is an absolute proof that St. Peter calls Jesus GOD, in the most proper sense of the term. This construction has reference to one person, not two (see A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, and Grammar, p. 786). 2Pe_1:1; 2Pe_1:11, 2Pe_2:20; 2Pe_3:2; **2Pe_3:18, Isa_45:22, *Isa_12:2; *Isa_45:21, Mat_16:16, Luk_1:47, *Joh_1:1 note. Joh_4:42; Joh_5:23; +*Joh_20:28, Act_5:31; Act_13:23, +Rom_9:5 note. Eph_5:23, Php_3:20, 2Th_1:12, 1Ti_1:1, +2Ti_1:10, +*Tit_2:13 note. Heb_1:8, 1Jn_4:14, +*Jud_1:4.

3. 2 Thessalonians 1:12
"So that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ."

Greek: tou Theou hēmōn kai Kyriou Iēsou Christou.

While not as unambiguous as Titus 2:13 or 2 Peter 1:1, some interpreters argue this follows the Granville Sharp Rule, making "God" and "Lord Jesus Christ" a single referent.

4. Romans 9:5
"To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen."

Greek: ho ōn epi pantōn Theos eulogētos eis tous aiōnas.

Although this verse does not strictly follow the Granville Sharp Rule, it explicitly describes Christ as "God over all."

5. John 20:28
"Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!'"

Greek: Ho Kyrios mou kai ho Theos mou.

Although not structured under the Granville Sharp Rule, Thomas directly addresses Jesus as both "Lord" (Kyrios) and "God" (Theos), affirming His deity.

Additional Notes:
These verses illustrate how the New Testament authors emphasize the divine identity of Jesus through careful grammatical construction.

The Granville Sharp Rule applies specifically to Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 but also provides interpretive clarity for other passages when comparing Greek syntax.

J.
Largely agree, but I will push back on your third example. I am firmly in Daniel Wallace's camp when it comes to Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 (“Consequently, in Titus 2:13 and 2 Pet 1:1 we are compelled to recognize that, on a grammatical level, a heavy burden of proof rests with the one who wishes to deny that 'God and Savior' refers to one person, God.”) Sharp Redivivus? - A Reexamination of the Granville Sharp Rule | Bible.org But 2 Thess. 1:12 not only takes no umbrage under the Granville Sharp rule, it lacks the syntax needed to make the interpretive leap because Ιησου Χριστου is a proper name.
 
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David in NJ

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,His nature...Jesus was not God...

He served his Father God...just like a Born Again does...we are under God’s authority and his will, spirit children.
Good Morning

God calls/commands us to look at the entirety of scripture = for every word that God speaks is Truth.

Matthew 4:4 - JESUS says: "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God."

Who was Jesus BEFORE He was Jesus? - Only by knowing the answer can we know the Truth

MONUMENTAL TRUTH
John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14 - "and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
Isaiah 7:14 & Matthew 1:23 -“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

This TRUTH did not magically appear out of nowhere!!!
For the Apostle John, being a Jew, KNEW that it would be the HIGHEST SIN to say such a thing if it were not TRUTH

Where did the Apostle John get this knowledge from???
The HOLY SPIRIT revealed GENESIS to the Apostle John = just as JESUS prophesied to John that HE would.

SHALOM
 
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Eternally Grateful

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This is not a syllogism but a demonstration of circular reasoning; Your 1st premise is the conclusion, you are pretending to use logic to "support." And a syllogism does not have 3 premises. It has 2 premises and a deductive conclusion from those premises, e.g.,:
P1. God cannot die. (Isaiah 40:28, 1 Timothy 1:17)​
P2. Jesus died.​
C. Jesus is NOT God.​
Regarding the trinitarian view, I already stated it. When I write that the trinity is not found anywhere in Scripture, I mean that neither the word nor the concept of the trinity is explicitly in the Bible. To avoid the inevitable Appeal to Strawman, there simply is no verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. If there were such a verse, it would be the most quoted verse in Scripture by those who claim one’s salvation depends on believing it. The concept of the trinity is so important that in 66 books, it is not mentioned once!
Once again, you have failed to represent the truth of what the trinitarian holds true

1. The faithr is God.
2. The son is God
3. the HS is God.
4. The father is not the son is not the spirit. They are three distinct induviduals


but what makes them God

1. Their essence, their power. And their purpose.
2. Their unique characteristics that no created being has.
3. Thats they always were (not created) and they are the means of creation.

I can go on and on and on, But the fact is, if you can not counter an argument or discussion when you do not even understand the basic premise of said argument
 
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Ritajanice

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Good Morning


God calls us to look at the entirety of scripture = for every word that God speaks is Truth.

Matthew 4:4 - JESUS says: "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God."

Who was Jesus BEFORE He was Jesus? - Only by knowing the answer can we know the Truth
Hello my friend..well he certainly wasn’t God..imo.
John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
MONUMENTAL TRUTH = John 1:2 - He was with God in the beginning
Yes, just the one God, who made all things.
This TRUTH did not magically appear out of nowhere!!!
For the Apostle John, being a Jew, KNEW that it would be the HIGHEST SIN to say such a thing if it were not TRUTH
God has always been I believe.
Where did the Apostle John get this knowledge from???
If John was saul, then he got knowledge from God. Didn’t God speak to him on the road to Damascus?
The HOLY SPIRIT revealed GENESIS to the Apostle John = just as JESUS prophesied to John that HE would.

SHALOM
Don’t understand this ,Brother? I’m 100% open to learning, but, I must understand in my spirit by the Spirit bringing it to my understanding.
 

RedFan

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Regarding the trinitarian view, I already stated it. When I write that the trinity is not found anywhere in Scripture, I mean that neither the word nor the concept of the trinity is explicitly in the Bible.
I agree with that and I think most Trinitarians would agree. Where you and I perhaps disagree is on whether the absence of explicit mention of the Trinity in Scripture is dispositive. I've said all along that the Trinity is an outgrowth of Greek philosophical analysis (Post #42). I just happen to think the Early Church Fathers got it right.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Hello my friend..well he certainly wasn’t God..imo.
byt he was
Yes, just the one God, who made all things.

Elohime (God in plural) made all things.
God has always been I believe.
So Has Jesus, the alpha and Omega the first a\nd the last.
If John was saul, then he got knowledge from God. Didn’t God speak to him on the road to Damascus?

Don’t understand this ,Brother?
I do not understand d this
 
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