WHAT DOES IT MEAN WIVES ARE TO BE OBEDIENT TO THEIR HUSBANDS?

[Taken]

WHAT DOES IT MEAN WIVES ARE TO BE OBEDIENT TO THEIR HUSBANDS?

* IMO opinion, according to My Understanding…
CONSIDERATION of CONTEXT is the KEY of what IS and IS NOT.

* Wife ~ Husband established relationship.
* Husband, Head of Household. (Occupants)
* Husband, Pronounces Household Rules.
* Wife, Obedient to rules, Helper, Teacher, Reminder of Rules, when Husband not present. (With Household Occupants)

The “back-story”….
* Man ~ Woman Contemplating Establishing “their” own one on one Relationship….
* UNDER the “agreement” THEY “both” Agree to AbIde by…(BeFORE) “committing” to “an agreement” of their own “one on one” Relationship of “Marriage”(according to Gods MODEL…or NOT).

* Agreement TO: The “Principles and Standards” (UNDER) which their “OWN” (established relationship AND household “rules”) SHALL Be established.

* Recognizing…Agreeing…BETWEEN the TWO (man / woman…..husband / wife)…
AGREE… SHALL…WILL….ADOPT….The MANNER, The LIMITS….of The Lord God Almighty’s….MODEL OF “His”…
“Principles and Standards…” For “ACCEPTABLE” …. “Household Rule making and Consequences.

It IS inanutshell…
recognizing and agreeing WHATGOD Created, Made, AND the Order and WAY of WHAT GOD Created and MADE.

Gods Earth…
Gods Earthly Created and Made Occupants…
Occupants Provisions…
Occupants Liberty to ACKNOWLEDGE God, HAVE / USE of His Provisions and Occupants Agreement to SERVE GOD, “By agreeing to CARE FOR” His Provisions….according TO GODS “principles and standards”.

Paraphrasing (basic).
God Head of ALL humans…Jesus VP helper
Husband Head of family…Wife VP helper
Chief Head of Nation…VP helper

Broad People Standard…Gods Word
Broad Family Standard…Gods Word
Broad Nation Civil Standard…Gods Word.

Broad Principles…
* Common Laws,
* Written (Statutes) Laws,
* Precepts, (Acceptable AND UN-acceptable /Behaviors among and between men..)
* And the Consequences thereof…positive or negative (ie . curses / penal / blessings / rewards / gifts).

It IS an Order and Way…Established BY the Creator and Maker….AS an ACCEPTABLE MODEL FOR the:
Beginning AND Existence AND Final RESULT OF and FOR every naturally born HUMAN which God created AND made.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[PGS11]

There are two types of men those that believe when they marry their wife becomes owned property in any situation beyond reason and then men who respect their wives.If a man thinks he owns you you should dump him carefully and I mean carefully.How many women have died this way because they are property and not really loved.

 

[TLHKAJ]

I share my experiences for different reasons. I want to see if there is a man who steps up and says something from the heart of God pertaining to a woman's unjust sufferings, rather than callously attacking her and misconstruing her words to bolster his ego and justify a man's inaction.

The attacks from men claiming the name of Christ is very telling. Where are the true men of God? Where is the heart of God toward women in this thread and others like them?

There will be more attacks. I know who I am in Christ, as a woman. And I am His. No man can take that from me.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● 1Pet 3:6 . . . Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord; and you have
become her daughters if you do what is right without being frightened by
any fear.

* An example of Sarah's calling her spouse "lord" is located in Gen 18:12

Anyway; Sarah's arrangement with Abraham was voluntary, i.e. she
was neither coerced nor intimidated. Abraham didn't have to break Sarah's
spirit by violence, neglect, or abuse. That's the point Peter is trying to get
across, to wit: Christian women have to take the initiative to follow Sarah's
example rather than forced to do so because Christian conduct is based upon
an honor system rather than a legal system.

"I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel
you and watch over you. Do not be like the horse or the mule, which have
no understanding but must be controlled by bit and bridle or they will not
come to you." (Ps 32:8-11)

* Sarah's original name was Sarai (Gen 17:15) which in Hebrew means
dominative, i.e. domineering. I can't imagine any parent tagging their little
girl with a bossy name like that, but apparently it was appropriate, viz; baby
Sarai must've been a demanding little tyke right from the get-go.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Eph 5:22 . .Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.

In other words; it's not the husband himself who merits his wife's best
behavior, rather, it's her man's status relative to Christ's.

Now, it goes without saying that Jesus is the superior among his own
because God has given him seniority in the divine family circle.

● Col 1:18 . . He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

The Greek word for "submit" is the very same for submit in Eph 5:21 which
shouldn't be taken to mean wives are supposed to take orders from their
husbands as if marriage were an arrangement similar to a monarch and a
commoner. What we're talking about here is deference rather than
compliance.

Deference is agreeable, approachable, tactful, and diplomatic. Deference
isn't confrontational, demanding, assertive, militant, dominating, nor always
clamoring: I am woman! Hear me roar! In a nutshell: deference is just the
opposite of defiance.

NOTE: "firstborn" is a term relative to primogeniture. However, the position
isn't set in concrete. The eldest can be circumvented and his rights, his
benefits, his responsibilities, and his privileges transferred to a younger. For
example Ishmael to Isaac (Gen 20:11-12) Esau to Jacob (Gen 25:23)
Reuben to Joseph (Gen 49:3-4 & 1Chr 5:1) and Manasseh to Ephraim. (Gen
48:13-14)
_

 

[Verily]

I share my experiences for different reasons. I want to see if there is a man who steps up and says something from the heart of God pertaining to a woman's unjust sufferings, rather than callously attacking her and misconstruing her words to bolster his ego and justify a man's inaction.

The attacks from men claiming the name of Christ is very telling. Where are the true men of God? Where is the heart of God toward women in this thread and others like them?

There will be more attacks. I know who I am in Christ, as a woman. And I am His. No man can take that from me.

As the head of the wife is the husband, the head of every man is Christ.

1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Shows there are checks and balances that come from on high even in the OT

To the husbands here it says

Mal 2:13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.

Mal 2:14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

Mal 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Similarly in the NT it says

Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

And swinging back to the hindered prayers of the husband if he deals less than honourably with his wife

1Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

The husband's seem to get placed on God's ignore list when it come to their prayer time

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Matt 19:4-6 . . Have you not read? He who made them at the beginning
made them male and female and said: For this reason a man shall leave his
father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one
flesh. So then, they are no longer two but one flesh.

Women in one flesh with a man doesn't make them equal to a man any
more than Christians in one Spirit with Christ makes them equal to Christ.

● 1Cor 11:3 . . But I would have you know, that the head of every man is
Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is
God.

That particular rule has little to do with gender when it's mostly about origin
and primogeniture.

The man was created first, and that directly from the earth's soil; whereas
the woman was constructed with material taken from the man's body. In
other words: the woman was the flip side of the same coin rather than a
coin of her own.

Had Eve been constructed directly from the earth's soil she would've been
Adam's equal but coming from his body made her the junior of the two on
the one coin and he the senior, viz: the man and the woman weren't
siblings: their relationship was more along the lines of a father and
daughter; and to my knowledge; daughters are never equal to their daddy.

* There's way too many Christians out there ready to drag Paul into a pie fight
with himself by countering 1Cor 11:3 with Gal 3:26-28, to wit:

"You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were
baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew
nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ
Jesus."

Yes, men and women lose their distinctions in Christ, but not in normal life.

For example Jesus and God are unified, yet there is a hierarchy in the
Divinity because the head of Christ is God. In like manner, men and women
are unified in Christ, yet there remains a hierarchy in humanity because the
man is the head of the woman.

NOTE: Beware becoming militant about this because it's neither a gender
issue, an intelligence issue, a competency issue, a strength issue, or a
maturity issue. The hierarchy within humanity is based primarily upon origin
and primogeniture. (1Tim 2:13)
_

 

[Mink57]

There are two types of men those that believe when they marry their wife becomes owned property in any situation beyond reason and then men who respect their wives.If a man thinks he owns you you should dump him carefully and I mean carefully.How many women have died this way because they are property and not really loved.

This is what I think what Grailhunter was saying in post #24, page 2 of this thread.

When Ephesians was written, a women was considered to be property of her father first, and then of her husband. So, it would make more sense that a wife would submit to her husband. But even then, the bible DOES say that we are to submit to one another. Ehpesians goes on to describe what that submission looks like...from wife to husband, husband to wife, parent to child, child to parent, master to slave and slave to master. Not necessarily equal respect, but mutual respect.

Pathetic. All men do not have to be THAT smart for you to follow the Bible's command to unconditionally submit to your husband.

The Bible does not say to submit "unconditionally." If that was true, then a wife would not be allowed to leave her husband for any reason, because he could just say 'NO! You can't leave!' and she'd have to obey him.

Stop adding words to the Bible that aren't there.

 

[TLHKAJ]

As the head of the wife is the husband, the head of every man is Christ.

1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Shows there are checks and balances that come from on high even in the OT

To the husbands here it says

Mal 2:13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.

Mal 2:14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

Mal 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Similarly in the NT it says

Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

And swinging back to the hindered prayers of the husband if he deals less than honourably with his wife

1Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

The husband's seem to get placed on God's ignore list when it come to their prayer time

God bless you. Although I knew this, it brings tears to my eyes ... God's heart is not calloused toward women who are misused and abused.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● 1Pet 3:7b . . Give honor unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel,

NOTE: Although husbands are senior in the Christian marriage relationship,
their position doesn't grant them carte blanch to mistreat their wives any
more than Jesus has carte blanch to mistreat his church. (cf. Eph 5:28-30)

The Greek word for "honor" basically means a value, i.e. money paid.

The word for "weaker" basically means having no strength, i.e. fragile.

And the word for "vessel" basically indicates anything from a soup bowl to a
cardboard box; in other words: a container.

Peter isn't saying women are physically weaker than men; but that Christian
husbands should exercise the same care with their wives as they would a
fragile antique worth thousands of dollars like, say, a Ming vase. Nobody in
their right mind handles a Ming vase like a farmer handles a 5-gallon bucket.
Not that some women couldn't take that kind of handling; it's just that its
unbecoming for a Christian man to lack sensitivity.

This particular assessed value isn't an intrinsic value, nor is it a deserved
value either; but rather, it's a gratuitous value. In other words: Christ
commands Christian husbands to categorize their wives up there with
Dresden china even if she's as tough as a UFC mixed martial artist the likes
of Rhonda Rousey-- and this is not a choice; no, it isn't optional; it's
required.

Christian husbands who treat their Skil saws and their tomato plants with
more care and concern than they treat their wives can just forget about
associating with God on any meaningful level.

● 1Pet 3:7c . . as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers
be not hindered.
_

 

[Wrangler]

The Bible does not say to submit "unconditionally."

It most certainly does! The absence of conditions implies unconditional. You know this. We’ve been over this before.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Gen 3:16c . .Your desire shall be for your husband,

The Hebrew of that passage is apparently somewhat difficult as even the
great rabbis Rashi and Ramban were in disagreement how best to interpret
it.

The Hebrew word translated "desire" shows up so infrequently in the Bible
that it's difficult to get a good feel for it. In point of fact, other than here in
Genesis, the only other places it's used is Gen 4:7 and Song 7:10.

I'm thinking the Hebrew word implies allure. In other words; Eve could be
just as immodest, just as daring, and just as provocative in private with her
husband all she wanted; but not in public for the eyes of other men.

That rule can be a bit frustrating for beautiful women filled out in all the
right places because they typically yearn for their goods to be admired
everywhere by everybody; and the more revealing, and the more public, the
better.

Well; I recommend that they satisfy that yearning while still young and
uncommitted because marriage is a possessive kind of relationship wherein
the partners' physical charms should be considered off the shelf rather than
remaining on display for others to examine.

● 1Cor 7:4 . .The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her
husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone
but also to his wife.
_

 

[Mink57]

It most certainly does! The absence of conditions implies unconditional. You know this. We’ve been over this before.

No it doesn't.

Again, that's YOUR interpretation. Paul DOES say that "IF a woman separates from her husband...." which means that she she's allowed to separate from her husband...no matter what HE says.

If she wants to separate, she doesn't have to obey him if he says, 'No! You can't LEAVE me!"

She doesn't have to stay with a husband who's a non-believer.

 

[Behold]

God bless you. Although I knew this, it brings tears to my eyes ... God's heart is not calloused toward women who are misused and abused.

The NT, (Paul) explains something regarding a happy marriage.

He explains the mind of a man and a woman......like this...

"The Man must LOVE the wife".. .and the "wife must RESPECT the Husband"..

And that is True Psychology.. as women want love and security, and Men want respect and to lead.

When ive dealt with "marriage issues'... i can always tell when a marriage is over... like this.......= when the woman's respect for the man is finished.....is broken.....and there is no way to get it back.
When that line is Crossed, then divorce court is upon them.

Women are the most interesting of All of God's Creatures.... They're complex, they are emotional, they are heavenly built with a unique intuition... they are in many ways smarter then men... .... they are uniquely loving creatures whose love can be so very selfless, even if the woman is not a Christian.
A smart man, understands that a woman has unique capabilities that when combined with the man's... makes for truly greater WHOLE.

RUSSIANS, refer to finding your life made as finding your 2nd Half.............or the part that completes you both, as "one".

IN America they refer to it as "finding your better half"..

I like the "completes you" version, as i think that is how God views a successful marriage relationship.

 

[Mink57]

The NT, (Paul) explains something regarding a happy marriage.

He explains the mind of a man and a woman......like this...

"The Man must LOVE the wife".. .and the "wife must RESPECT the Husband"..

And that is True Psychology.. as women want love and security, and Men want respect and to lead.

When ive dealt with "marriage issues'... i can always tell when a marriage is over... like this.......= when the woman's respect for the man is finished.....is broken.....and there is no way to get it back.
When that line is Crossed, then divorce court is upon them.

Women are the most interesting of All of God's Creatures.... They're complex, they are emotional, they are heavenly built with a unique intuition... they are in many ways smarter then men... .... they are uniquely loving creatures whose love can be so very selfless, even if the woman is not a Christian.
A smart man, understands that a woman has unique capabilities that when combined with the man's... makes for truly greater WHOLE.

RUSSIAN, refer to finding your life made as finding your 2nd Half.............or the part that completes you both, as "one".

IN America they refer to it as "finding your better half"..

I like the "completes you" version, as i think that is how God views a successful marriage.

Unfortunately, many a man thinks that 'love' is just a feeling...and not an action. Ohhh, they claim to 'love' her...and yet put her down, tell her no one else would want her...insult her weight, breast size, clothing (even though modest), her cooking, child rearing, her job....

But they "love" her....

...right?

 

[Grailhunter]

As I said in post 24 if both the man and woman agree before getting married that the wife must obey the husband, that is fair and biblical. As I proved in post 24 that the scriptures indicate that the wife must obey the husband and he is senior in the relationship.

That is if you subscribe to the “Bible Only” approach to understanding Christianity. The problem with that, is that it produces a very weird form of Christianity.

That is you only believe what the scriptures say.
That you do not believe anything that is not in the scriptures.
Which means….considering New Testament scriptures....

1. There is no requirement in the scriptures, Old or New Testament for a wedding ceremony to be married. So it would be sacrilegious to conduct a wedding ceremony. Particularly since there are Pagan customs imbedded in Christian wedding ceremonies. It was the Gentiles that brought the custom of wedding ceremonies into Christianity and it was the Protestants that made church wedding ceremonies a requirement to be married in the 16th century.

2. Your marriage was formed in the bridal chamber where the union forms the marriage.

3. You paid for your wife, so you own her. The scriptures never said to stop paying for your wife. And arranged marriages are permissible, where the wife may not have any choice in who she marries.

4. You can have more than one wife. The scriptures never said to stop polygamy.

5. You can have concubines. The scriptures never said to stop having concubines.

6. You can sell your daughter as a concubine. The scriptures never said to stop the practice of selling your daughter as a concubine.

7. You can have as many slaves as you want. The scriptures never said to stop having slaves or denounce having slaves.

8. You sacrifice animals to Yahweh. The Jewish-Christians ie the Apostles worshipped in the Temple.

9. You believe the world is flat.

 

[Behold]

Unfortunately, many a man thinks that 'love' is just a feeling...and not an action. Ohhh, they claim to 'love' her...and yet put her down, tell her no one else would want her...insult her weight, breast size, clothing (even though modest), her cooking, child rearing, her job....

But they "love" her....

...right?

Some men are cursed by a culture that "raised them" to mainly see a woman's value.. as : "a sex object" and "a cook".

And some cultures, like Iran and Iraq, these middle eastern Sharia Mind Culture's , does not even elevate the woman to even that base standard.
They have her as a slave.. wrapped in a religious garment from head to toe.......and nothing more is she to them.

My home is in Israel, and Jewish women who are not stuck in a hyper religious Judaism home, feel very liberated... but, they want to be a mother, with children.. first and foremost.... as they feel that the purpose for a Marriage is most of all... to make a family.
Or as God told Adam and Eve.. "replenish".. "make a family".
That is Jewish culture....its all about "family, family, family".

If you are able go to Israel... then try to do it in the warm temps.. .as then you'll see so many Jewish families... the mother-father and the kids... the baby carriages... all outside walking... together.. ....................and the little children are saying...."Abba Abba..." as that is "Father"
Its very unique for a visitor who has come to the Holy Land who is a Chjristian, to hear the kids saying......>>"Abba Abba".... as that is what we the born again are to call our Heavenly Father... He's our "Abba'.

 

[Wrangler]

You deliberately misconstrued what I said. Read again.

I report. You decide. Try answering my question. Only then, can your post be properly construed. Thanks!

 

[Wrangler]

And vice versa. Where does scripture state a man is to judge his wife?

Implied in her being required by God to submit to him.

 

[Wrangler]

And if you must know, when I left with the children to protect them, his words were.... "What if they come after me bc you're not here?!"

Doesn't sound like you were a very good helper in helping to defend him. You and @Mink57 like to have it both ways. Pick one:

1. I can help protect my husband because I am brave and strong, like him.
2. I am a victim and must cower in fear when my husband is threatened, and use my children as a weapon or shield to deflect accountability.