Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture
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dad
Well-Known Member
Actually there was not an abomination of desolation at that time. Nor did Jesus return 42 months later...etc etc etc
It was determined by God that this time would be for the Jews to finish things. Some of the time that was given in separate pieces (49 weeks/etc) One of those pieces (seven years) has not happened yet. The other pieces have happened. Anyone familiar with what all has to happenn before Jesus returns would know this.
True. Messiah the Prince is the Covenant Confirmer of Daniel 9:27.
It was determined by God that 70 weeks would be determined (Daniel 9:24), and they were.
Anyone familiar with Messiah the Prince's perfect complete accomplishments at Calvary (Daniel 9:24) would know this.
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It is unbelievable that you are so adamant at pushing a doctrine with zero proof texts. You have shown you have nothing, yet you refuse to let go of your error. The burden of proof is in your court.
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dad
Well-Known Member
No. The prince that shall come in the end
No, the end time events obviously have not happened
No. There was no antichrist, false prophet, rule of satan for a short time, stars and sun going out, all waters on earth turned to poison, bottomless pit opened and demonic monsters come out to torment men, and hailstones a hundred pounds each, etc etc etc etc etc
dad
Well-Known Member
I stated a solid bible position. But the discussion here is your fraud claim of proof against a rapture before the tribulation. You offer nothing yet.
I do not find the Rapture worth arguing about, especially with unbelievers (in the tribulation, millennium etc), The claims you made of proof went poof.
Not so! You have no rapture passage that teaches a trib after it. You therefore have no biblical doctrine. It is an extra-biblical theory. It was invented by the Jesuits in the 1800s to infiltrate Protestantism.
If you had Scripture you would give it, but you do not. Pretrib is a man-made religious fabrication.
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There is only one identified individual also identified as a Prince in Daniel 9:24-27.
He is Messiah the Prince.
He is the grammatical antecedent/referent of the prince in Daniel 9:26.
The determined 70th week happened 2,000 years ago.
The one identified in Scripture as determined.
True. There were none of those in the 70th week.
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dad
Well-Known Member
Or that teaches one before it. Why mention it then??
The Rapture is biblical actually as well as us being spared from wrath. But wait, do you so much as believe in the last seven years and tribulation? Ha
No it is based on actual belief in Scripture. Rather than, say, waving away the millennium, Great Tribulation, etc etc
I am not here to defend the pre trib view. I popped in to expose your fraud OP of having proof against the pre trib. Instead, we see this.
dad
Well-Known Member
Not going to argue. It is the AntiChrist. He confirms the covenant with many.
Do you believe in a tribulation of several years before Jesus returns followed by the 1000 yr rule?
dad
Well-Known Member
Nor is He the prince that is to come that confirms a covenant in the end.
The little horn, and etc- there are many names for the wicked king of the end. So do you believe in a tribulation in the end or not? The wicked one (antichrist)? The 1000 year reign of Christ on earth? Be honest.
He is the prince who came 2,000 years ago and confirmed His Covenant with many at Calvary. Matthew 26:28
There is no OT name of "antichrist". The word does not exist in the OT.
There is no tribulation, no antichrist, and no 1000 year reign in the 70th week, which was determined and fulfilled long ago.
dad
Well-Known Member
Jesus is the Prince. But there are plenty of princes on earth as well. One of them is the prince that shall come in the end. The one that confirms the covenant
Several names actually. That is so basic and elementary I am not going to debate it. This seems to mean you are denying that the final evil king will exist?
Believers know otherwise
1 John 2:18
Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
You are overruled
? How could we put 1000 years in a seven year period?? You seem truly confused
The end of evil in the world and etc etc was not done. Sorry Pollyanna
dad
Well-Known Member
Not one jot or tittle can fail. Relax
Dream on. The gathering in the air was known since Paul. You are hung up on the word Rapture
Messiah is the Prince who came 2,000 years ago and confirmed His Covenant with many at Calvary. Matthew 26:28
Where does John refer to antichrist as a prince?
Not in the OT.
You tell us. You're the one attempting to decapitate your undetermined 70th week and associate it with your undetermined future millennium.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
My go to scholars:
"The Christian Church originated in Roman Judea in the first century AD/CE, and the date of Pentecost is considered the 'Birthday of the Church'". RC Sproul
Acts 2. “When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly, there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves. And they rested on each one of them.”
"That is the phenomena that God designed to inaugurate the birth of the church. We are the church. This is our story. This is our history. Now remember, in the first chapter of the Book of Acts, we saw the preparation for the birth of the church. Now as we come into chapter 2, we will experience through the lens of Holy Scripture the actual beginning of the church. In chapter 1, the disciples were waiting for the coming of the Holy Spirit. In chapter 2, He arrives.
In chapter 1, the disciples were equipped for their ministry. In chapter 2, they are empowered for their ministry. In chapter 1, the believers are held back. In chapter 2, they are sent out. Their full resources to declare the gospel message to the ends of the earth are put in place by the arrival of the Holy Spirit, and it is the fulfillment of Acts 1:8. “But you shall receive power. After that, the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you shall be witnesses unto me in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and the outermost part of the earth.” John MacArthur
Technically, we can say God's Plan for the redemption of billions that are now in the Body of Christ started in Eden. We will see Adam and Eve and many of their children in heaven; Noah, his sons and many of their decendants too.Then the Chosen Nation, beginning with Abraham and forward all those who lived by faith in the coming Messiah. They all died and went to Paradise and Abraham was waiting for them, greeted them with a hug (Abraham's bosom). These certainly were "branches of the Vine". But not until Jesus came, died and rose; and not until Pentecost came were the Gentiles grafted into that Vine. Prior to that, it was never referred to as the Body of Christ (the Church) and until Christ baptized them with the Holy Spirit. Yes, John referenced the Bride and Bridegroom in John 3, but it was a prophetic utterance of what was coming.
Jesus stated clearly that they did not have the Holy Spirit living in them, that he must leave and then He would send Him on Pentecost: "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. JOHN 16:7
dad
Well-Known Member
His covenant is not one that will be broken. The one the prince that is to come in the end confirms (notice that Jesus made the covenant not confirmed it?) will be broken.
Why would we look to John to do all things we have the whole word of God. But anyone who knows Scripture and what the AntiChrist does and when knows what John is talking about. John speaks of the man to come and spirit already there in the world. The details of the guy and what he does are elsewhere in the bible. If Paul mentions the law of Moses, do you expect him to list hundreds of laws?
The time period was given to us in segments.
1 "from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks"
2 "Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time.."
3 "after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing.."
Then the Roman people which is the same kingdom that the AntiChrist will head in the end (the people of the prince that will come in the future) will destroy the city (70AD).
Then, ' even unto the end' (when Jesus returns and ends man's kingdoms) shall be war; desolations are determined. - There will be various wars etc there even till the end.
This puts us to that end period
4 "And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.."
So we have a king in the end here and he stops the daily sacrifices. In other prophetic passages we also learn that he also places the abomination of desolation. If someone were to do a detailed study of these events, (I read one once) the timing is probably something like 3 months or so before the abominations stands in the holy place, the daily sacrifices are taken away. But that is not important here. What is significant is we have a ruler of the Roman revived empire doing something in the temple area or grounds in the middle of that last seven years.
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