Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[WPM]

Not as far as the Rapture goes. That is for the dead IN Christ and living believers.

Oh, I get it. You change Scripture to suit your theological purposes and fit Pretrib. Ok!

 

[WPM]

There are different times that believers live in. Those after Jesus get Raptured. Apparently the old testament believers and trib saints get raptured when Jesus returns. Not all believers from past and future are in that event

Too bad the Rapture is for specific believers in a specific time.

This is not about being saved, it is about which saved are Raptured.

Great, nothing to do with the Rapture. Once again you are too busy picking daisies out in left field to notice that you are supposed to be addressing the Rapture here, not how to be saved or who all over all ages is saved.

You wrongly invent different saved groups that are not part of the ongoing Church from the beginning. This you do err. There are only saved and lost when Jesus comes. That is all there has ever been. I showed you the evidence. The saved are all rescued and the lost are all destroyed at the one-and-only coming of Jesus. There is no one left to inhabit your imaginary 7 years trib or future millennium.

 

[covenantee]

No. Not every one. I don't care too much what anyone says unless the bible says so too. The prophets told us plenty. Jesus as well. The writers He used for the new testament etc. So if you have some claim on the timing of the Rapture or something you will need to pony up

The Reformers suffered immense tribulation under the antichrist of the apostate papacy.

If anyone would have been expecting a pretrib rapture, it was they.

But they had no such expectation.

Because they knew what the Bible says.

No pretrib rapture.

 

[dad]

Yes, one event.

That doesn't fit

Paul said all who have believed the Gospel testimony will be glorified when he appears. The dead and living in Christ.

when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. esv

When he comes on that day, he will receive glory from his holy people—praise from all who believe. And this includes you, for you believed what we told you about him. nlt


So of course He will get glory from His people on that day! Both from the folks on earth as well as us saints returning with Him!

Sorry if you imagined you could twist that to mean there was no Rapture before this

2Tim 4
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure [from this world] is at hand and I will soon go free. 7 I have fought the good and worthy and noble fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith [firmly guarding the gospel against error]. 8 In the future there is reserved for me the [victor’s] crown of righteousness [for being right with God and doing right], which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that [great] day—and not to me only, but also to all those who have loved and longed for and welcomed His appearing.

So what is that great day for Paul? Well, he will be Raptured and go to heaven and there Jesus will have the Marriage feast and pass out rewards etc. That is when he gets his crown

1 John 3:2
Beloved, we are [even here and] now children of God, and it is not yet made clear what we will be [after His coming]. We know that when He comes and is revealed, we will [as His children] be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is [in all His glory].

At the Rapture of course we will see Him. Later, every eye shall see Him when He returns to earth

Phil 3
20 But [we are different, because] our citizenship is in heaven. And from there we eagerly await [the coming of] the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who, by exerting that power which enables Him even to subject everything to Himself, will [not only] transform [but completely refashion] our earthly bodies so that they will be like His glorious resurrected body.

At the Rapture He gives us our resurrected bodies.

 

[dad]

You wrongly invent different saved groups that are not part of the ongoing Church from the beginning.

No one invented that there was a time for Jesus to come as prophesy foretold. Obviously the people who saw that and lived it and after it, believing in Jesus are a different harvest than the folks thousands of years before or after He takes us all away. That does not mean we are less or more saved of His people. Being a tribulation believer makes one no less of a believer. It just makes one a believer after the Rature already happened.

This you do err. There are only saved and lost when Jesus comes.

When He comes in the air or to the earth? Don't misuse the word err

That is all there has ever been. I showed you the evidence.

You showed nothing but a confused outlook that made clear you conflate the Rapture with the second coming to earth

The saved are all rescued and the lost are all destroyed at the one-and-only coming of Jesus.

True! The saved of that time. You see the Rapture took all the dead and living Christians long before that day

There is no one left to inhabit your imaginary 7 years trib or future millennium.

So now you think you can wave away the tribulation and 1000 years also?

 

[dad]

The Reformers suffered immense tribulation under the antichrist of the apostate papacy.

Great, so they did a good job and were believers. That would mean they believed Scripture as well

If anyone would have been expecting a pretrib rapture, it was they.

In your mind. It is not random severe trials that lead a bible believer to expect the end time. It is a specific set of signs that start to happen. If those folks you speak of knew the bible they would have known those signs had not happened.

 

[WPM]

No one invented that there was a time for Jesus to come as prophesy foretold. Obviously the people who saw that and lived it and after it, believing in Jesus are a different harvest than the folks thousands of years before or after He takes us all away. That does not mean we are less or more saved of His people. Being a tribulation believer makes one no less of a believer. It just makes one a believer after the Rature already happened.

When He comes in the air or to the earth? Don't misuse the word err

You showed nothing but a confused outlook that made clear you conflate the Rapture with the second coming to earth

True! The saved of that time. You see the Rapture took all the dead and living Christians long before that day

So now you think you can wave away the tribulation and 1000 years also?

Tribulation has always been the believer's lot throughout time. That will of course intensify before the end when the mystery of iniquity is unrestrained and Satan is loosed for his little season.

You cannot even support your Pretrib thesis. That is because it is a theological invention that enjoys zero proof-texts. Again:

Can you present one single rapture passage that teaches there will be “a time of trouble,” a "seven-year period of judgment" or a seven-year ... tribulation" following it?

This is the very basis of your every argument and it doesn't exist. Everything else is built upon sand.

 

[dad]

Tribulation has always been the believer's lot throughout time. That will of course intensify before the end when the mystery of iniquity is unrestrained and Satan is loosed for his little season.

Yes, unlike THE Great Tribulation, which is UNLIKE any other time. Unique

You cannot even support your Pretrib thesis. That is because it is a theological invention that enjoys zero proof-texts. Again:

Can you present one single rapture passage that teaches there will be “a time of trouble,” a "seven-year period of judgment" or a seven-year ... tribulation" following it?

The end period is well documented in many ways using many phrases. The years and days are even given for the last half of the seven years.

That is neither debatable nor an issue here. The issue here is your false claims of having proven that the Rapture is not before the wrath/tribulation/last seven years

You have failed and the OP was busted.

I think you have had enough chances here to try and redeem your position and support it. Instead you spammed off focus verses and showed that you are confused with the second coming to earth and the Rapture (among other things)

 

[covenantee]

Great, so they did a good job and were believers. That would mean they believed Scripture as well

In your mind. It is not random severe trials that lead a bible believer to expect the end time. It is a specific set of signs that start to happen. If those folks you speak of knew the bible they would have known those signs had not happened.

There was nothing random about what the Reformers encountered. It fully met the criteria of what should have precipitated a pretrib rapture.

But it didn't.

The Reformers knew their Bible and knew the signs.

And knew that they hadn't been raptured.

 

[WPM]

Yes, unlike THE Great Tribulation, which is UNLIKE any other time. Unique


The end period is well documented in many ways using many phrases. The years and days are even given for the last half of the seven years.

That is neither debatable nor an issue here. The issue here is your false claims of having proven that the Rapture is not before the wrath/tribulation/last seven years

You have failed and the OP was busted.

I think you have had enough chances here to try and redeem your position and support it. Instead you spammed off focus verses and showed that you are confused with the second coming to earth and the Rapture (among other things)

Cut the trash-talking out and cut the avoidance of it. You have proved nothing yet apart from the fact that you are a master at avoidance.

Can you present one single rapture passage that teaches there will be “a time of trouble,” a "seven-year period of judgment" or a seven-year ... tribulation" following it?

 

[dad]

There was nothing random about what the Reformers encountered. It fully met the criteria of what should have precipitated a pretrib rapture.

It was not the Great Tribulation obviously. There was no image of the beast set up in the holy place for example.

The Reformers knew their Bible and knew the signs.

And knew that they hadn't been raptured.

We all know we have not been raptured if we are still here. That is foolishness.

 

[dad]

Cut the trash-talking out and cut the avoidance of it. You have proved nothing yet apart from the fact that you are a master at avoidance.

Can you present one single rapture passage that teaches there will be “a time of trouble,” a "seven-year period of judgment" or a seven-year ... tribulation" following it?

You seem to think you have a point since you have been parroting this. Sorry to break it to you, you don't. The last seven years is spoken of in Daniel 9 and referred to elsewhere for example the last half of it starts when the abomination of desolation is seen, which triggers the Great Tribulation.

Are you seriously trying to wave away the tribulation??

 

[WPM]

You seem to think you have a point since you have been parroting this. Sorry to break it to you, you don't. The last seven years is spoken of in Daniel 9 and referred to elsewhere for example the last half of it starts when the abomination of desolation is seen, which triggers the Great Tribulation.

Are you seriously trying to wave away the tribulation??

Where is a rapture mentioned in Daniel 9? Where is your seven year tribulation mentioned in Daniel 9? Where is your 3rd coming mentioned in Daniel 9?

 

[dad]

Where is a rapture mentioned in Daniel 9? Where is your seven year tribulation mentioned in Daniel 9? Where is your 3rd coming mentioned in Daniel 9?

The last week of seven years is mentioned. Sorry you can't wave the tribulation away if that is what you are trying to do?

 

[WPM]

The last week of seven years is mentioned. Sorry you can't wave the tribulation away if that is what you are trying to do?

Exactly. It is not in God's Book. It is extra-biblical. You have no rapture passage that shows a trib following. You have been misled.

 

[covenantee]

The last week of seven years is mentioned. Sorry you can't wave the tribulation away if that is what you are trying to do?

Yes. The last week inextricably attached to the previous 69.

 

[dad]

Exactly. It is not in God's Book. It is extra-biblical. You have no rapture passage that shows a trib following. You have been misled.

Your 'no rapture before the wrath is not in the book. Your weird questioning of the tribulation is not in the book. Sorry if I mistook you for a serious debater

 

[dad]

Yes. The last week inextricably attached to the previous 69.

No. The final years before Jesus return are a separate slice of the pizza. There is no possibility that that last week could have been fulfilled yet anytime in history. None.

 

[WPM]

Your 'no rapture before the wrath is not in the book. Your weird questioning of the tribulation is not in the book. Sorry if I mistook you for a serious debater

You have no Pretrib passage to bring to the table. All you have is your infantile chides.

And no, this is nothing to do with Prewrath, we are talking about Pretrib. You have no Pretrib passage. If you had, you would produce it.

The wrath that comes is totally destructive - like as in Sodom and Noah's day. There are no survivors.

 

[dad]

You have no Pretrib passage to bring to the table. All you have is your infantile chides.

I am not here to support the well known. You claimed proof there was no Rapture pre trib. You failed. Game over

And no, this is nothing to do with Prewrath, we are talking about Pretrib.

The last seven years is the wrath with the final greatest wrath at the end of it. So yes, pre wrath.

You have no Pretrib passage. If you had, you would produce it.

All that must be produced here is you admitting you spoke falsely and admit you had no proof against the pre trib rapture. Actually that is not even needed I shot your joke OP down already. Cheers

The wrath that comes is totally destructive - like as in Sodom and Noah's day. There are no survivors.

The millennium will have nations to rule over actually. Live people! As for the beginning of the wrath/seven years the whole world minus Christians will still be here. You are talking through your hat again