Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[Scott Downey]

John 6

We are chosen by God and Christ to believe in the Son
Judas was also chosen to be the betrayer.

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the [q]Christ, the Son of the living God.”

70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

The reason they believed was the Work of God, as in God was at work within them to work and to do of His good pleasure.
This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.

 

[Ritajanice]

Short commentary .

It represents someone who, through baptism, is counted by God as having died with Christ on the cross, been buried with him in the tomb with him, and raised with him to new life, walking out of that spiritual tomb of eternal death.

 

[CadyandZoe]

When we become Born Of The Spirit, we have passed over from spiritual death to spiritual life, in Christ.

Short commentary .

What does the Bible say about spiritual resurrection?
Paul says, God saved you by His grace when you believed (v 8). It is by faith in Jesus we are revived or resurrected from spiritual death and given new life (Ephesians 2:1;4-6; 8). You may not see an instant change in you physically, but to God you are reborn.

The Bible does not use the term "resurrection" with regard to being reborn spiritually. The word "resurrection" refers to bodily resurrection. This was a source of confusion during Paul's day which is why he argued for bodily resurrection in his first epistle to the Corinthians.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Who does John say came to life before the thousand years? Please quote Scripture.

Dead people. You can read it for yourself.

 

[WPM]

We have no part in the new creation. God does that for us according to His particular will
John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

We do however receive Him, but we must first be born of God to become spiritually minded and believe as He taught us to believe in Christ.
Even your belief God grants to you.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

No one denies the new birth. Hello! But the means He accomplishes the new birth is by spiritual resurrection. Read the avoided posts above.

 

[Ritajanice]

@CadyandZoe ..Hi.

You say.The Bible does not use the term "resurrection" with regard to being reborn spiritually. The word "resurrection" refers to bodily resurrection. This was a source of confusion during Paul's day which is why he argued for bodily resurrection in his first epistle to the Corinthians.


RJ says,we are part of the resurrection of Christ...those who are his,Born Again.by divine revelation.

Our spirit has been ressurected into the Spirit of Christ, regenerated , means the same thing...

 

[WPM]

The Bible does not use the term "resurrection" with regard to being reborn spiritually. The word "resurrection" refers to bodily resurrection. This was a source of confusion during Paul's day which is why he argued for bodily resurrection in his first epistle to the Corinthians.

Check posts #240 & 241 above that refute this.

 

[WPM]

Dead people. You can read it for yourself.

Lol. Show your evidence if you have it.

 

[Scott Downey]

Resurrection implies giving life to something that already exists.

HOWEVER, when a person is in Christ, born again, they are a new creation, all things are become new.
This is a new thing, not an old thing. You get yourself a new spirit, the old spirit is not resurrected

 

[Ritajanice]

2 Corinthians 4:16-18 New Living Translation (NLT) Though our bodies are dying, our spirits are being renewed every day. For our present troubles are small and won't last very long. Yet they produce for us a glory that vastly outweighs them and will last forever!

 

[WPM]

This is a new thing, not an old thing. You get yourself a new spirit, the old spirit is not resurrected

Not true. Your spirit is made alive by the Holy Spirit to the things of God thus producing a new birth.

You have avoided all the biblical evidence of such above. You have to.

 

[Scott Downey]

The NEW SPIRIT is first taught of in Ezekiel 36
And it is how the New Covenant of a glorious salvation works.
And God saves us for His own Name's sake.

24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.

25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will [e]loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations.

32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”

 

[Scott Downey]

Not true. Your spirit is made alive by the Holy Spirit to the things of God thus producing a new birth.

You have avoided all the biblical evidence of such above. You have to.

You ignore the scripture then
New spirit God puts in us,
We are a new creation in Christ.
The old things have passed away, behold all things are become new.

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

 

[Scott Downey]

Again, the OT prophesy about our NEW spirit that God gives us.
Do you know believers in Christ ae the true Israel of God?
And that Christ came to gather the lost sheep.

Ezekiel 11
16 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Although I have cast them far off among the Gentiles, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet I shall be a little [d]sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone.” ’ 17 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.” ’ 18 And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there.

19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within [e]them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

21 But as for those whose hearts follow the desire for their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their deeds on their own heads,” says the Lord God.

 

[Scott Downey]

Ezekiel foretold the gathering of the people of God to Him.​

Lazarus Raised from the Dead​

38 Then Jesus, again groaning in Himself, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39 Jesus said, “Take away the stone.”

Martha, the sister of him who was dead, said to Him, “Lord, by this time there is a stench, for he has been dead four days.”

40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?” 41 Then they took away the stone [d]from the place where the dead man was lying. And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. 42 And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.” 43 Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!” 44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Loose him, and let him go.”

The Plot to Kill Jesus​

45 Then many of the Jews who had come to Mary, and had seen the things Jesus did, believed in Him. 46 But some of them went away to the Pharisees and told them the things Jesus did. 47 Then the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and said, “What shall we do? For this Man works many signs. 48 If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.”

49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all,

50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for [e]us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish.”

51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation,

52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.

53 Then, from that day on, they plotted to put Him to death. 54 Therefore Jesus no longer walked openly among the Jews, but went from there into the country near the wilderness, to a city called Ephraim, and there remained with His disciples.

 

[Ritajanice]

He indwells our spirit, our Spirit is indwelled by His, that is the new heart we receive when “our”spirit is Born Again, our spirit / old man is being renewed daily....we aren’t made into the image of Jesus in a flash.

Our spirit is still within us...because we are Born Of God’s seed, the Holy Spirit is at work in our hearts, making us by his power ,into the image of Jesus.

We die to self daily.

 

[CadyandZoe]

@CadyandZoe ..Hi.

You say.The Bible does not use the term "resurrection" with regard to being reborn spiritually. The word "resurrection" refers to bodily resurrection. This was a source of confusion during Paul's day which is why he argued for bodily resurrection in his first epistle to the Corinthians.


RJ says,we are part of the resurrection of Christ...those who are his,Born Again.by divine revelation.

Our spirit has been ressurected into the Spirit of Christ, regenerated , means the same thing...

Yes. I understand. But the claim being made in this thread is that the Premillennial system doesn't believe that we participate in the resurrection of Christ. They do. WPM did not present indisputable proof that Premillennialism isn't based on scripture. His argument is a "strawman" argument, which mischaracterizes what the Premillennial system actually teaches.

 

[Scott Downey]

God gives us a new spirit and a new heart and we are then His people, and He is our God.
This is how the New Covenant works

Ezekiel 11
16 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.

17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.

18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence.

19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

21 But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their way upon their own heads, saith the Lord God.

22 Then did the cherubims lift up their wings, and the wheels beside them; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above.

23 And the glory of the Lord went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city.



Genesis 49
10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Hebrews 7:14
For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.

John 11
45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.

46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.

47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.

48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Hebrews 8​

A New Covenant​

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Acts 15
12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had [c]become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the [d]Lord who does all these things.’
18 [e]“Known to God from eternity are all His works.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Check posts #240 & 241 above that refute this.

Your argument there fails because you are confusing "to rise with" sunegeivrw and "a standing up" anastasis

Consider the context, when Paul talks about the fact that "in Christ" we are raised with him, he is talking about the fact that Jesus went up into heaven -- that is, he speaks of Christ's ascension, not his resurrection.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Lol. Show your evidence if you have it.

You can see it for yourself. Can a person suffer the guillotine and live?