Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

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WPM

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Revelation 20:6 tells us: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Whatever angle you look up Premillennialism, it tends to contradict itself. According to this view, the means by which men escape the second death is physical resurrection when Jesus comes (this is their understanding of the first resurrection). However, this leaves out physically alive believers, who are obviously not physically resurrected when Jesus comes. That is because they do not physically die at the second coming. They are physically changed and caught up in a moment. This is altogether different from resurrection.

This demolishes the whole Premil thesis.

In the Premillennialist school of thought, the living redeemed who are on earth when Jesus comes miss out on the first resurrection, and therefore victory over the second death, the stated means of overcoming it. So to do all the supposed mortal millennial converts who get saved after Premillennialism's first resurrection.

The second death

What is "the second death" and what is the biblical means by which we escape it? At what point does the second death no longer have power over someone? When does that kick in?

When it comes to the meaning of “the second death” most evangelicals are in solid agreement that this is talking about eternal damnation. Revelation 20:14 tells us: “death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

References to the term “the second death” are only found in the book of Revelation. Outside of our main references in Revelation 20, we find only two other mentions, in Revelation chapters 2 and 21. Revelation 21:6-8 outlines the nature of the second death and those that see it, and most important the type and way a person escapes it, saying, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

But what many Premillennialists do not consider is that if believers have not yet had their part in the first resurrection, and if, as Scripture teaches, it is the actual means by which we overcome the second death, and it is still future, then the second death still has power over believers in this life. That means they have not already experienced eternal life in which they shall never die, and overcome eternal death, as Jesus and the New Testament writers continually promised happens upon salvation. They have not been delivered from darkness to light. They still don't possess an eternal hope. They have not yet defeated sin, death and Hades. They are not then seated in heavenly places. This reality is still future. This false teaching, negates numerous explicit New Testament passages. This is what Premillennialism produces – contradiction after contradiction.

There is another major contradiction in Premillennialism that many fail to consider, and that is, if the first resurrection is the actual means by which we overcome the second death, and if it is yet future, and it relates to the physical resurrection of the dead in Christ, this means that the living in Christ do not partake in the only means by which we conquer the second death at the second coming. After all, they do not die, they are therefore not resurrected. They are changed in a moment and caught up to be with Jesus in the air.

Only the Amillennialist explanation makes sense, is supported by numerous other Scripture, and recognizes the current ongoing realization of this great fulfillment. Only this interpretation embraces all the elect – which is the thrust of the teaching. The reality is, all God’s people have their part in Christ’s first resurrection and therefore escape eternal damnation.

This resurrection has to be spiritual “in Christ.” Notably, this promise in Revelation 20:6 is in the present tense, thus supporting the Amil interpretation. Basically, this is not simply a future hope, it is a present reality for the redeemed. When we get saved, all the redeemed of all times (without exception) partake in this glorious resurrection. This therefore gives them a current ongoing everlasting victory over eternal punishment (as repeatedly taught in Scripture).

The first resurrection

The first resurrection is shown throughout the Word to be Christ’s resurrection.

Acts 26:23 presents Christ’s physical resurrection as the first resurrection, saying, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first [Gr. protos] that should rise [Gr. anastasis] from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Colossians 1:18 closely mirrors Acts 26:23, saying, “And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn [Gr. prototokos] from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

The word prototokos here is the combination of protos (Strong’s 4416) and tikto (Strong’s 5088). The Greek word prototokos means firstborn or first in time. It can also mean first in position or highest ranking person.

Revelation 1:5 uses the same Greek word to describe Christ’s triumphant resurrection, saying, “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten [Gr. prototokos] of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.”

Paul similarly says in 1 Corinthians 15:20, “now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first [Gr. protos] resurrection [Gr. anastasis]: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

This is evidence! This is corroboration!
 
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WPM

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Hath part in the first resurrection

The means by which a human being overcomes “the second death” is expressly shown in Revelation 20:6 to be their “part in the first resurrection.”

John confirms the current reality of believers already partaking in the first resurrection in Revelation 20:6. It says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

This has to be talking about salvation. According to the Greek, this is happening in the here-and-now. The Greek word translated “part” in the text is the word meros meaning share, allotment or portion. This reading tells us that all those that have come to the joy of saving faith in Christ have become partakers in the resurrection life of Christ ("the first resurrection"), and through this will escape the horrors of the second death – eternal wrath. This embraces every single child of God.

For those that are saved in this life, “the second death hath no power” over them. They have been delivered from the grave of their sin and are now seated in heavenly places. They now possess eternal life. They have secured a victory over eternal damnation. This is a present ongoing reality. Their eternal destiny is not the lake of fire but the new glorified earth.

It is hard to get Premils to accept that victory over the second death does not come from being bodily resurrected from the grave on resurrection day. It is rather comes from salvation. That is what the Bible consistently teaches! If we let Scripture interpret Scripture we will quickly see that. If we do not, we will not. It will contradict multiple texts. We will find ourselves placing a private interpretation on Revelation 20.

The irony of this subject is that everywhere else the presence tense is used, Premillennialists have no difficulty in applying it to the present, when it does not interfere with their pet doctrine. Jesus parallels Revelation 20:6 in John 3:16, teaching: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth (present active particle) in him should not perish (or experience the second death), but have (present active subjunctive) everlasting life.”

We see victory over the second death in this age through the new birth. Currently believing carefully corresponds with currently experiencing “everlasting life." It wins us victory over eternal death. It is a present reality for the elect, not merely a future hope. That is so because God lives within us now.

John 3:36 says, He that believeth on the Son hath (present active indicative) everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

If you don't possess eternal life now you will not possess it in the life to come. Only those who possess it now will never die.

Jesus said in John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath (present active indicative) everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation (or experience the second death); but is passed from death unto life.”

The transition from death to life both spiritually and physically occurs by way of resurrection. There is no other way. This is demonstrated many times in Scripture in regard to both spiritual and physical resurrection.

Jesus said in John 6:50-51, 54 & 58: “This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world … Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath (present active indicative) eternal life … he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.”

In John 8:51, Christ said to the Pharisees, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death (or experience the second death).”

Jesus said in John 10:27-28: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give (present active indicative) unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish (or experience the second death), neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Jesus says, in John 11:25, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth (present active particle) in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth (present active particle) and believeth (present active particle) in me shall never die (or experience the second death).”

This is supported by Revelation 2:11, which similarly says: He that overcometh (present active particle) shall not be hurt of the second death.”

Here is more proof that our escape from “the second death” is not future tense (as Premillennialists claim) but presence tense.
 
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Davidpt

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There is another major contradiction in Premillennialism that many fail to consider, and that is, if the first resurrection is the actual means by which we overcome the second death, and if it is yet future, and it relates to the physical resurrection of the dead in Christ, this means that the living in Christ do not partake in the only means by which we conquer the second death at the second coming. After all, they do not die, they are therefore not resurrected. They are changed in a moment and caught up to be with Jesus in the air.

I don't see that being problematic for Premil, and one reason why is the following. Plus you already provided the solution when you said this--They are changed in a moment and caught up to be with Jesus in the air.

1 Corinthians 15:51 ehold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

This gives the impression that only those that have physically died are meant here. Except we know that no one can literally live forever unless all of the following happens to them first.

shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Obviously, those still alive and caught up in the rapture, this change has to happen to them as well even though they never physically died at any time. Because, if this change is not including them that can only mean they remain mortal for all eternity, except no mortal could possibly live forever. Therefore, this particular argument of yours is a weak one not a strong one.

If Premils take the 2nd death having no power over you to be meaning when one is in an immortal body state, obviously those caught up in the rapture will also be in an immortal body state once this change takes place in them as well.
 

WPM

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I don't see that being problematic for Premil, and one reason why is the following. Plus you already provided the solution when you said this--They are changed in a moment and caught up to be with Jesus in the air.

1 Corinthians 15:51 ehold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

This gives the impression that only those that have physically died are meant here. Except we know that no one can literally live forever unless all of the following happens to them first.

shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Obviously, those still alive and caught up in the rapture, this change has to happen to them as well even though they never physically died at any time. Because, if this change is not including them that can only mean they remain mortal for all eternity, except no mortal could possibly live forever. Therefore, this particular argument of yours is a weak one not a strong one.

If Premils take the 2nd death having no power over you to be meaning when one is in an immortal body state, obviously those caught up in the rapture will also be in an immortal body state once this change takes place in them as well.

Physically living people are not physically resurrected. That is because they do not physically die at the second coming. They are changed and caught up. This is altogether different from resurrection. This demolishes the whole Premil thesis. The living redeemed miss out on the first resurrection, and therefore victory over the second death, the stated means of overcoming it.
 
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MA2444

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Revelation 20:6 tells us: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

What is "the second death" and what is the biblical means by which we escape it? At what point does the second death no longer have power over someone? When does that kick in?

The second death

When it comes to the meaning of “the second death” most evangelicals are in solid agreement that this is talking about eternal damnation. Revelation 20:14 tells us: “death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

References to the term “the second death” are only found in the book of Revelation. Outside of our main references in Revelation 20, we find only two other mentions, in Revelation chapters 2 and 21. Revelation 21:6-8 outlines the nature of the second death and those that see it, and most important the type and way a person escapes it, saying, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

But what many Premillennialists do not consider is that if believers have not yet had their part in the first resurrection, and if, as Scripture teaches, it is the actual means by which we overcome the second death, and it is still future, then the second death still has power over believers in this life. That means they have not already experienced eternal life in which they shall never die, and overcome eternal death, as Jesus and the New Testament writers continually promised happens upon salvation. They have not been delivered from darkness to light. They still don't possess an eternal hope. They have not yet defeated sin, death and Hades. They are not then seated in heavenly places. This reality is still future. This false teaching, negates numerous explicit New Testament passages. This is what Premillennialism produces – contradiction after contradiction.

There is another major contradiction in Premillennialism that many fail to consider, and that is, if the first resurrection is the actual means by which we overcome the second death, and if it is yet future, and it relates to the physical resurrection of the dead in Christ, this means that the living in Christ do not partake in the only means by which we conquer the second death at the second coming. After all, they do not die, they are therefore not resurrected. They are changed in a moment and caught up to be with Jesus in the air.

Only the Amillennialist explanation makes sense, is supported by numerous other Scripture, and recognizes the current ongoing realization of this great fulfillment. Only this interpretation embraces all the elect – which is the thrust of the teaching. The reality is, all God’s people have their part in Christ’s first resurrection and therefore escape eternal damnation.

This resurrection has to be spiritual “in Christ.” Notably, this promise in Revelation 20:6 is in the present tense, thus supporting the Amil interpretation. Basically, this is not simply a future hope, it is a present reality for the redeemed. When we get saved, all the redeemed of all times (without exception) partake in this glorious resurrection. This therefore gives them a current ongoing everlasting victory over eternal punishment (as repeatedly taught in Scripture).

The first resurrection

The first resurrection is shown elsewhere throughout the Word to be Christ’s resurrection.

Acts 26:23 presents Christ’s physical resurrection as the first resurrection, saying, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first [Gr. protos] that should rise [Gr. anastasis] from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Colossians 1:18 closely mirrors Acts 26:23, saying, “And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn (or prototokos) from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

The word prototokos here is the combination of protos (Strong’s 4416) and tikto (Strong’s 5088). It means what it says.

Revelation 1:5 uses the same Greek word to describe Christ’s triumphant resurrection, saying, “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten (or prototokos) of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.”

Paul similarly says in 1 Corinthians 15:20, “now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first [Gr. protos] resurrection [Gr. anastasis]: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

This is evidence! This is corroboration!

Is that other thread getting too long for you, lol?

Is this topic all you ever talk about? That's...weird.
 

tailgator

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Well,at least we know by the word of God that them who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus and who did not worship the beast or it's image,nor receive it's mark ,are resurected in the first resurection and have eternal life and do not suffer the second death.

Can't say that for most people as most people do not suffer such affliction for Christs namesake.
 
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WPM

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Well,at least we know by the word of God that them who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus and who did not worship the beast or it's image,nor receive it's mark ,are resurected in the first resurection and have eternal life and do not suffer the second death.

Can't say that for most people as most people do not suffer such affliction for Christs namesake.
I showed you biblical evidence above that the first resurrection is Christ’s resurrection.
 
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MA2444

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That is such a powerful rebuttal of the Op. Wow! I will have to reconsider views. LOL

Considering what? Going back to other thread from which you were so thoroughly debunked?

Just once I'd like to see you start a thread about anything but this. ime you never have.
 
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tailgator

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I showed you biblical evidence above that the first resurrection is Christ’s resurrection.

I'm talking about he saints who die for their testimony of Jesus.
Now I agree they are in the body of Christ but they are not Jesus nor did they die 2000 years ago.In fact the mark of the beast in revelation 20 has not been administered in Israel yet.Benjamin netanyahu has not yet enacted the legislation he said he would for the mark to be administered.It probably will be next year after Trump gives netanyahu the armed forces.

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 

WPM

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wow, I thought I was going to see irrefutable proof.

I should have known better.
LOL. It is there, and you know it! You just have no answer to it. Those who have eyes to see and have ears to hear will get it. The fact that Premils have no rebuttal proves the potency of the thesis and how watertight it is.
 

WPM

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I'm talking about he saints who die for their testimony of Jesus.
Now I agree they are in the body of Christ but they are not Jesus nor did they die 2000 years ago.In fact the mark of the beast in revelation 20 has not been administered in Israel yet.Benjamin netanyahu has not yet enacted the legislation he said he would for the mark to be administered.It probably will be next year after Trump gives netanyahu the armed forces.

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Read what I wrote above in my second post about "hath part."
 

WPM

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Considering what? Going back to other thread from which you were so thoroughly debunked?

Just once I'd like to see you start a thread about anything but this. ime you never have.
Pretribbers have run with their tails between their legs on the other thread because they have no response to the truth. It is the same here. Premil does not have any corroboration. Pretrib has no proof-texts.
 

Eternally Grateful

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LOL. It is there, and you know it! You just have no answer to it. Those who have eyes to see and have ears to hear will get it. The fact that Premils have no rebuttal proves the potency of the thesis and how watertight it is.
Nah,

Its not there

But I know people can make themselves believe anything, and nothing will change their mind. So i will let you go with your flawed belief.
 

MA2444

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Pretribbers have run with their tails between their legs on the other thread because they have no response to the truth. It is the same here. Premil does not have any corroboration. Pretrib has no proof-texts.That's not the way the threa d

That thread doesnt read that way to me. You just wont address the truth when it is shown to you and get all red faced and start slnging insults and declaring victory when nothing could be further from the truth. That's quite a tacic you use now. Is that your idea or someone else? Your handlers?
 
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Eternally Grateful

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That thread doesnt read that way to me. You just wont address the truth when it is shown to you and get all red faced and start slnging insults and declaring victory when nothing could be further from the truth. That's quite a tacic you use now. Is that your idea or someone else? Your handlers?
some people think they know it all.. I think they love chatrooms like this, because they do not have to face people face to face. and can talk however they want.

they do not realise it just hurts their own cause
 
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TribulationSigns

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That thread doesnt read that way to me. You just wont address the truth when it is shown to you and get all red faced and start slnging insults and declaring victory when nothing could be further from the truth. That's quite a tacic you use now. Is that your idea or someone else? Your handlers?

Still waiting for your biblical refutation to WPM's post. Nothing? Not surprised.
 

WPM

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Nah,

Its not there

But I know people can make themselves believe anything, and nothing will change their mind. So i will let you go with your flawed belief.
If you had a rebuttal you would give it. But there is none. Facts are stubborn things.