To what does the APOSTASIA refer

[Johann]

i read (quickly) Post 177

i am getting ready to retire for the night as i have a big dead tree to cut down
it cannot be cut from the ground = i must climb to the top and piece it down

prayer for safety is appreciated

Be careful!
J.

 

[Johann]

Did you look at Psalm 2:1-6 and Rev 19:19 as they speak of the SAME event

No, the rebellion in Psalm 2 and Revelation 19 is not the same as the apostasy (falling away) mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2. Though they are related in the broad eschatological framework, they describe different aspects of opposition to God and Christ.
J.

 

[David in NJ]

No, the rebellion in Psalm 2 and Revelation 19 is not the same as the apostasy (falling away) mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2. Though they are related in the broad eschatological framework, they describe different aspects of opposition to God and Christ.
J.

Agree
My post was not intending that they are the apostacy of 2 thess 2

God always speaks beforehand of that which will be = Isaiah 46:10

Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’

 

[David in NJ]

Some Denominations and Enclaves Teach a Preterist Interpretation

The Preterist interpretation of the Great Apostasy views the events described in the New Testament, particularly in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, as having already occurred in the first century. Here are some key points:

1. Historical Fulfillment: Preterists believe that the Great Apostasy and the rise of the “man of lawlessness” were fulfilled during the first century, particularly around the time of the Jewish-Roman War and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE1. They often identify the “man of lawlessness” with figures like Nero or Titus, who played significant roles in the persecution of Christians and the destruction of the Temple1.
2. Abomination of Desolation: Preterists interpret the “abomination of desolation” mentioned in Matthew 24:15 and Daniel 9:27 as events that occurred during the Roman siege of Jerusalem. They point to historical records of Roman soldiers setting up idols and sacrificing in the Temple as fulfillment of these prophecies1.
3. Symbolic Language: Preterists argue that much of the apocalyptic language in the New Testament is symbolic and was meant to describe the imminent judgment on Jerusalem and the end of the Old Covenant age, rather than a distant future event1.
4. Early Church Context: This interpretation emphasizes the relevance of these prophecies to the early Christian communities who were experiencing persecution and upheaval. It suggests that the warnings about apostasy and false teachers were directly applicable to their immediate context1.

Preterism offers a perspective that sees the New Testament prophecies as largely fulfilled in the past, providing a historical lens through which to understand these texts. [Copilot]

Preterism offers a perspective that sees the New Testament prophecies as largely fulfilled in the past,

And that's why preterism is FALSE and should be avoided(trash bin) except where prophecies have been fulfilled.

Evidence A: and then the lawless one will be revealed,
whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Sorry charlie - pretourism is just another brain storm idea from people who have a hard time with grade school grammar
and come up with words to cuddle around their brain.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I don't recall making any statement about when the Day of the LORD is, could you refresh me? I'd like to see the context of what I must have said.

Reading through your post, it seems you and have very similar views.

I know we agree on these things in general. I think you might have been quoting someone else and it seemed like you were say the Day of the Lord was also the Rapture. I will put the quote in Red.

So if "day of Christ/Lord" is refering to the rapture, the Paul is saying, "The rapture has come, it's here, it's going to be here".

But you were probably pointing out to someone why this can't be true.

I was merely trying to show everyone why the DOTL has to come 1260 days after the Rapture.

Its all GOOD.......

 

[ewq1938]

Take a nap, wake up, and research it. You clearly do not understand these points its escaping you at the moment it seams. Brother Thomas Ice has not made a mistake on his power points.

He is wrong, whether intentionally or accidentally. And, why don't you go take a nap? Don't tell me that especially when your post is so full of false teachings.

 

[ewq1938]

The Latin word used in the Vulgate is discessio, which means departure. Departure was the word used to describe the Rapture until the KJV introduced a new translation.

So Apostates are simply people who do some traveling? I think they departed to Antichrist-town.

 

[ewq1938]

discessĭo , ōnis, f. discedo.
I. (Very rarely), a separation of married persons, Ter. And. 3, 3, 36; “of the people into parties (with seditio),” Gell. 2, 12: “stellarum et discessiones et coetus,” separations and conjunctions, id. 14, 1, 8; cf.: “plebei a patribus, et aliae dissensiones,” Sall. H. Fragm. 1, 9 Dietsch.—
II. A going away, departure, removal.
A. In gen. (very rarely; cf. “discessus): Nonanus desolatus aliorum discessione,” Tac. A. 1, 30 fin.: “necessaria,” Macr. S. 1, 5, 3.—Far more freq.,
B. In partic.
1. Polit. t. t., a going over to any one in voting: “senatusconsultum de supplicatione per discessionem fecit,” Cic. Phil. 3, 9 fin.; Tac. A. 6, 12; Suet. Tib. 31; cf. Varr. ap. Gell. 14, 7, 12.—Esp.: discessionem facere, to make a division, i. e. to get the vote of the house by dividing it, Cic. Phil. 14, 7 fin.; Hirt. B. G. 8, 52 fin.; 8, 53; Cic. Sest. 34, 74; Tac. A. 3, 69 fin. al.—
2. In the church, a separation, schism (eccl. Lat.), Vulg. Act. 21, 21; id. 2 Thes. 2, 3.

Number I. above is used as a departure of a spouse from the other spouse. This is a good picture of the Rapture. But remember, this is used very rarely.
Number II above, this needs no explanation. This is exactly what the Rapture is.

You don't know how to read the entry properly. The meaning of apostasia is found in the last one: 2. In the church, a separation, schism (eccl. Lat.), Vulg. Act. 21, 21; id. 2 Thes. 2, 3.


As you can see, they give the meaning of the word and where it has that meaning. You cannot take the meaning from any other part and apply it to 2 Thes. 2, 3

 

[covenantee]

Take a nap, wake up, and research it. You clearly do not understand these points its escaping you at the moment it seams. Brother Thomas Ice has not made a mistake on his power points.

Yes, not a mistake.

Brother John Wycliffe declares that it's a deliberate misrepresentation.

 

[Rxlx]

You are correct, the falling away is an instantaneous event.

The falling away is repentance and the death of the old man so that the new man, Christ can sit in the temple of God.

WHAT!
The falling away is today's empty churches, and today's bishops and ministers who preach they evolved from monkeys, and say homosexual/lesbian marriage is acceptable, and say Muslims, Hindus, etc are all Christians......

 

[IndianaRob]

WHAT!
The falling away is today's empty churches, and today's bishops and ministers who preach they evolved from monkeys, and say homosexual/lesbian marriage is acceptable, and say Muslims, Hindus, etc are all Christians......

The day of Christ is the day Christ comes into the believer, in other words it’s the day we’re born again and Christ is formed in us.

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

 

[David in NJ]

So Apostates are simply people who do some traveling? I think they departed to Antichrist-town.

Best way to start my day with a lol in the Truth

i have some quick whit also but you got me on that one Brother, and there was no harm/insult.

 

[David in NJ]

The day of Christ is the day Christ comes into the believer, in other words it’s the day we’re born again and Christ is formed in us.

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

When we are Born-Again by the Spirit of God, is Truly a Day of LIGHT shining in the darkness.
Just as a newborn baby exits the dark of a mother's womb.

the Second Coming is also a Day of LIGHT, but ONLY for the saints who are waiting for His Return.
For the world, it is the Day of the LORD = JUDGEMENT

One Second Coming with TWO outcomes = One GOOD and the other VERY BAD

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, not a mistake.

Brother John Wycliffe declares that it's a deliberate misrepresentation.

religion: proven methods of misrepresentation of God's words to collect souls unto obedience to men

 

[David in NJ]

Will you believe these things I've shown you so plainly? Will you at the very least consider whether this could be true?

Much love!

Good Morning @marks
i have to work now so i wanted to remind you of our fellowship in the Truth of God's word.

there was an error in my post #

The message isn't "the rapture already happened", the message is, the day of Christ/Lord is here, with "here" to be understood as, it's come, and it's staying. That day, it's come, to stay. It's in the perfect tense, that's what that tense means.

This is one reason why your interpretation simply doesn't fit with the wording and the syntax of the passage. Your interpretation has them being told, "Rapture day is here to stay", which doesn't make sense, considering the rapture is an event that occurs and then it's over. So these terms, "the gathering to our Lord"/"rapture"/harpadzo, and, "the day of Christ/day of the Lord" are not equivalent.

Again, this isn't from an interpetation, I'm relaying the syntax of the passage.

Much love!

The message isn't "the rapture already happened", the message is, the day of Christ/Lord is here

@Ronald D Milam @ewq1938 @Spiritual Israelite

the MESSAGE is the SAME:
If the DoL is here, then Judgment is about to fall from Above and you have NOT been raptured

There was great tribulation upon the saints as Paul was writing to them to ENDURE in the FAITH.

False letters and false prophecies of 'pre-trib' rapture was circulating(like today) and the HOLY SPIRIT put His 'KABOSH' on it and quick = just as HE is doing now and will grow louder as we approach the impending Day of the LORD for the world = His Glorious Second Coming for His Saints.

 

[IndianaRob]

When we are Born-Again by the Spirit of God, is Truly a Day of LIGHT shining in the darkness.
Just as a newborn baby exits the dark of a mother's womb.

the Second Coming is also a Day of LIGHT, but ONLY for the saints who are waiting for His Return.
For the world, it is the Day of the LORD = JUDGEMENT

One Second Coming with TWO outcomes = One GOOD and the other VERY BAD

The day of the Lord is darkness and there is no light in it.

Amo 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

The day of the Lord IS NOT the second coming.

The day of Christ IS light and IS NOT the day of the Lord.

 

[David in NJ]

@Ronald D Milam @marks

If we, as Blood Washed Saints of the Most High God refuse to be under the words of Christ and the Apostles then we divide the Body of Christ with our own conjectures = same as the Serpent

the Apostle John is the 3rd Witness along with JESUS and Paul:

JESUS, the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John said it LOUD & CLEAR - 1 John 2:18

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
DEPARTURE = They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

 

[David in NJ]

The day of the Lord is darkness and there is no light in it.

Amo 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

The day of the Lord IS NOT the second coming.

The day of Christ IS light and IS NOT the day of the Lord.

ONLY for the world is it a day of darkness.

You fail to understand who CHRIST is in relation to His Body and in relation to the world.

OPEN your EYES to SEE

This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[KUWN]

You don't know how to read the entry properly. The meaning of apostasia is found in the last one: 2. In the church, a separation, schism (eccl. Lat.), Vulg. Act. 21, 21; id. 2 Thes. 2, 3.


As you can see, they give the meaning of the word and where it has that meaning. You cannot take the meaning from any other part and apply it to 2 Thes. 2, 3

Do you know why 2 Thes 2.3 is listed in this Lexicon? It is the contributor's opinion. I hardly think a person's opinion (just like you have) is something to cite as proof of one's position.

 

[Johann]

@Ronald D Milam @marks

If we, as Blood Washed Saints of the Most High God refuse to be under the words of Christ and the Apostles then we divide the Body of Christ with our own conjectures = same as the Serpent

the Apostle John is the 3rd Witness along with JESUS and Paul:

JESUS, the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John said it LOUD & CLEAR - 1 John 2:18

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
DEPARTURE = They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

What exactly is the topic of discussion and the -isms and schisms and diverse answers?

2. [select] In the church, a separation, schism (eccl. Lat.), Vulg. Act. 21, 21; id. 2 Thes. 2, 3.

J.