Amil can only be proved to be true if Amils accept all of the following terms and convincingly satisfy these terms.

[Rich R]

It appears to me Rich that it is yourself that has no clue as to what church is. Even after showing us how church is defined, you still don't understand! Just because a confused angry mob is assembled together does not negate the FACT the Church existed during the days of Moses when he led the full assembly/congregation/popular meeting/Jewish synagogue/or Christian community of members on earth/or saints in heaven or both. How the word "ekklēsía" is defined in Scripture is only confusing for those with an unbiblical preconceived doctrine to promote and defend. There seems to be some hope for you! At least you acknowledge others might think because of your unbiblical doctrines that you have trouble comprehending things!

If you recall I said in my post explaining ekklesia;

"I'm not sure why I bother telling you this. I have little doubt but that, instead of a cogent reply, I'll just get something like I am a heretic, or I have trouble comprehending things, blah, blah. Quite boring really."​

​

You are soooo predictable!

Anyway, you said, "the Church existed during the days of Moses." All you have to do is change the "the" to "a" as well as get rid of a "Jewish synagogue/or Christian community (what does that even mean?)" and you'd be getting close to the truth.

 

[Rich R]

What about the fact that God can keep things hidden in the OT and then reveal those hidden things in the NT? You know, such as the fact that Gentile believers are fellowheirs

Whoa...stop right there! Where does it say God told Abraham the Gentiles would be fellowheirs? He told him all nations would be blessed in him, but there that's not the same a being fellowheirs. Besides what's so complicated about:

Eph 3:5,

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;​

​

The "now" does not refer to Abraham's time. It refers to Paul's time. There were apostles in Paul's time but not in Abraham's time. Was Abraham around in "other ages" or in Paul's time?

Here's another that says the same thing:

Eph 3:9-10,

9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:​

​

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,​

of the promises He made to Abraham and his seed, which is Jesus Christ and those who belong to Christ (Galatians 3:16,29)? Why can't you accept that the inheritance God promised to Abraham expanded beyond just the promised land that Abraham called "a strange country" while desiring "a better country, that is an heavenly"?

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Abraham and his seed were promised to be "the heir of the world", not just a piece of land. Why can't you just accept this instead of not allowing the NT to interpret the OT for you?

All Romans 4:13 is saying is that the plan was by faith, not by the law. It certainly doesn't say that Abraham knew what wasn't revealed until it was revealed to Paul. He was looking at Isaac as his seed, i.e., the Jews. At the time Romans was written the mystery had been revealed.

 

[Rich R]

The beginning of their discourse cites:

"Reference: Jeremiah 31:31–34
Fulfillment: Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 7:22, 8:6–13, 9:15, 10:14-18, 12:24"

Obviously they affirm that those Scriptures fit in.

If you don't believe that those Scriptures fit in, you should contact Jews for Jesus directly. I've no doubt that they would be eager to answer your questions.

Not sure why I'd talk to them. Apparently they can't see the deserts aren't filled with rivers and blooms, lions laying with sheep, weapons made into plowshares, etc.

 

[covenantee]

Not sure why I'd talk to them. Apparently they can't see the deserts aren't filled with rivers and blooms, lions laying with sheep, weapons made into plowshares, etc.

Are you afraid that they'd explain the New Covenant to you?

 

[Rich R]

Are you afraid that they'd explain the New Covenant to you?

You mean that they might explain how there are rivers and blooms in the desert, lions laying with sheep, weapons into plowshares, etc? The idea is ludicrous!

 

[covenantee]

You mean that they might explain how there are rivers and blooms in the desert, lions laying with sheep, weapons into plowshares, etc? The idea is ludicrous!

Try them, if you're not afraid.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Whoa...stop right there!

LOL. Too late. I already said what I said.

Where does it say God told Abraham the Gentiles would be fellowheirs? He told him all nations would be blessed in him, but there that's not the same a being fellowheirs.

Rich. Goodness sakes, man. Have you ever read the New Testament? Paul said it was a mystery in Old Testament times. Hello? It's not a mystery anymore that the Gentiles are fellowheirs. Why is it still a mystery to you?

Besides what's so complicated about:

Eph 3:5,

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;​

​

The "now" does not refer to Abraham's time.

LOL! When did I say it was revealed in Abraham's time? I didn't. You're talking to a strawman here.

It refers to Paul's time.

No kidding. Didn't say otherwise. It was a mystery in OT times and was revealed in NT times. Very simple.

There were apostles in Paul's time but not in Abraham's time.

My goodness. No kidding! Anything else obvious you'd like to share that everyone already knows?

Was Abraham around in "other ages" or in Paul's time?

Stop the ridiculous questions already! What is your point?

Here's another that says the same thing:

Eph 3:9-10,

9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:​

​

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,​

Yeah, so your point is? Why is is this all still a mystery to you? You should be celebrating that the mystery has been revealed, but you want to act like it's still hidden.

All Romans 4:13 is saying is that the plan was by faith, not by the law. It certainly doesn't say that Abraham knew what wasn't revealed until it was revealed to Paul. He was looking at Isaac as his seed, i.e., the Jews. At the time Romans was written the mystery had been revealed.

Yes, it was. Why is it still a mystery to you? Gentile believers are fellowheirs with Israelite believers of the promises God made to Abraham. What is hard to understand about this?

 

[Keraz]

The Heirs of the Gods Promises to His peoples:

Ephesians 1:11-14 In Christ, indeed, we have been given the heritage, as was decreed in God’s purpose. For it was His will that we who set our hopes in Jesus, should be the ones to make His glory known and praised.

We Christians have the Seal of the Holy Spirit, which is the pledge of the inheritance that will be ours when God has redeemed what is His own.
........cleared and cleansed His holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43

Romans 8:16-18 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God…..it is the Spirit of adoption, so we can call Him ‘Father’. This affirms that we are God’s children and if children, then heirs, heirs of God’s promises through Christ.
But we must share His suffering, if we are also to share His glory.

Ephesians 3:6 Through the Gospel, Gentiles are joint heirs with the Jews, part of the same body, sharers together in the promises of God through Jesus.
Galatians 3:29 So if you belong to Christ, then you are the issue of Abraham and heirs of God’s promises. [to the Patriarchs]
Colossians 1:12 We give thanks to the Father who has made us fit to share in the heritage of God’s people in the Kingdom of light.

It is quite evident that the vast multitude seen in Jerusalem, Revelation 7:9, soon after the Sixth Seal event that will clear all of the holy Land, is far more that the remnant of the Jewish people. Romans 9:27

Many prophesies make it plain that in the end times there will be a people in God’s holy Land, who will be His people, those who seek the Lord and who know what is right. Isaiah 51:1 Every faithful Christian person.

 

[Keraz]

Of course we spiritualize Israel, making them into Christians, then anybody can say whatever they want about God's plan. I suppose there could be as many covenants as one could imagine.

The new Covenant has nothing to do either with ethnic Israel, nor with mankind in general, but is only for the Spiritual Israelite individuals; the true Overcomers, who are born again faithful Christian believers; the ones who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43

The Bible’s restoration prophesies do not belong to those who call themselves Jews, or to the citizens of the State of Israel, for they are a part of the world that Jesus spoke about in Revelation 2:20-23, John 15:6, Matthew 21:33-46

Bible teaching could not be clearer: it is we Christians who are the inheritors of God’s Promises to the Patriarchs, Galatians 3:26-29, and it cannot be that God will give His holy Land to anyone who rejects His Son and fails to obey the Commandments.

 

[Rich R]

LOL. Too late. I already said what I said.


Rich. Goodness sakes, man. Have you ever read the New Testament? Paul said it was a mystery in Old Testament times. Hello? It's not a mystery anymore that the Gentiles are fellowheirs. Why is it still a mystery to you?


LOL! When did I say it was revealed in Abraham's time? I didn't. You're talking to a strawman here.


No kidding. Didn't say otherwise. It was a mystery in OT times and was revealed in NT times. Very simple.


My goodness. No kidding! Anything else obvious you'd like to share that everyone already knows?


Stop the ridiculous questions already! What is your point?


Yeah, so your point is? Why is is this all still a mystery to you? You should be celebrating that the mystery has been revealed, but you want to act like it's still hidden.


Yes, it was. Why is it still a mystery to you? Gentile believers are fellowheirs with Israelite believers of the promises God made to Abraham. What is hard to understand about this?

Apparently, you and I are in fact in total agreement concerning the mystery. I've been very clear on how I see it, that Abraham did not know the mystery, that it was a secret until revealed to Paul. Given that, why do you keep asking me if I understand the mystery (in a very snarky manner at that)? Obviously I do. It's you I don't understand.

You, Covenantee, and rwb are apparently unable to carry on civil discourse. You seem to enjoy every chance you get to employ bullying tactics, as unsuccessful as they may be. It just reflects bad on you guys.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Apparently, you and I are in fact in total agreement concerning the mystery. I've been very clear on how I see it, that Abraham did not know the mystery, that it was a secret until revealed to Paul.

That's obvious to everyone. What Abraham did know is that the promised land he was in was "a strange country" so he desired "a better country". He just didn't know exactly what that would be and he didn't know back then that Gentile believers would be fellowheirs, but that mystery is revealed in the NT. He, along with all believers, will inherit new heavens and a new earth where righteousness dwells. That's what Peter said we should be looking forward to inheriting. Is that what you're looking forward to inheriting?

Given that, why do you keep asking me if I understand the mystery (in a very snarky manner at that)? Obviously I do. It's you I don't understand.

You continue to insist that God has a separate plan for Israel than he does the church, do you not? And that He is going to give Israel alone the promised land? Or do you say that Gentile believers also will inherit the promised land since they are fellowheirs? It's hard to tell what you believe at times since you are not always clear about what you believe. I've been trying to tell you that all believers from all time, Jew and Gentile, will be inheriting far more than just the promised land, but you don't seem to understand that. The promised land is just "a strange country". It's meaningless. It's the new heavens and new earth you should be looking forward to instead.

You, Covenantee, and rwb are apparently unable to carry on civil discourse.

Do I need to provide you a list of your own comments that could be considered less than civil? You are the one who created a thread that blatantly misrepresented the interpretive approach of Amillennialism and you have misrepresented Amil at other times as well. So, please spare me the holier than thou act.

You seem to enjoy every chance you get to employ bullying tactics, as unsuccessful as they may be. It just reflects bad on you guys.

I"m making light of your nonsense. Maybe try not posting so much nonsense. Take responsibility for yourself and the way you're making yourself look.