Amil can only be proved to be true if Amils accept all of the following terms and convincingly satisfy these terms.

[WPM]

No one denies, including Premils, that saints have been being martyred since the time of Christ's ascension back into heaven. That's not disputable. What is disputable, is that same past 2000 years meaning the millennium recorded in Revelation 20? If Amils have both the beast and satan in the pit this entire past 2000 years, who then are Amils claiming are behind all this martyring of saints over these past 2000 years? Are Amils claiming that while the beast and satan are locked in the pit, they are active outside of the pit at the same time? If that's true, prove your point per the locusts recorded in Revelation 9. Because, while they are depicted locked away in the pit, it's as if they don't even exist since there is not one sign of them doing anything on the earth while in the pit.

When you misrepresent Amil, you duck the rebuttals that forbid your speculation. I will repost:

Revelation 20:4 says, “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls [Gr. tas psychas] of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (aorist active indicative) and reigned (aorist active indicative) with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.”

Revelation 20:4 is simply talking about the dead in Christ that reign as kings and priests now with Christ in heaven. They have experienced their "part" in the "first resurrection in life (salvation) and now they rule with Him in glory. Simple!

This is a current event. Please note the tenses. Also, this is the dead in Christ reigning in glory now in heaven. We are looking at "souls" here (namely the disembodied saints) not bodied saints.

The tribulation period has been ongoing since Stephen. Many Christians have been martyred for the faith through the centuries. I would recommend you read Foxes Book of Martyrs which describes the 40 million believers that lost their lives to the Roman Catholic Church. Before the Roman Catholic Church you have the severe persecution of the Roman Empire. Over recent years you have had the onslaught of Islam. That is who Revelation 20 is speaking of – the dead in Christ now in heaven.

Anyway, thrones are always located within the heavenly domain – the place of authority and power. The scene that we observe in this symbolic passage is surely a heavenly one. The believers in view are deliberately described as “the souls” proving that we are looking at the great heavenly host of the redeemed of God in disembodied form. As yet they have not received their glorified bodies.

Revelation 6:9-10 similarly says, closely paralleling the scene portrayed in Revelation 20, “I saw under the altar the souls [Gr. tas psychas] of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”

Revelation 20:4-5 and Revelation 6:9-10 show the dead in Christ in a disembodied state now in heaven (until glorification). They do not receive new bodies upon death, but at the coming of the Lord. It is showing us that there is a victory over the grave for the believer. They are alive and kicking. They worshiping the Lord around His altar after death. .Few would have any difficulty in accepting that Revelation 6:9-10 – the fifth seal – is speaking (1) of the disembodied spirits of the “dead in Christ,” (2) that they are found in heaven and (2) at a time prior to the Second Advent and the day of God’s wrath – the sixth seal.

The very next verse of this narrative (6:11) confirms, “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”

Here these disembodied saints are described as resting before “the altar” in heaven “for a little season” until the arrival of their “fellowservants” and “brethren” that are still being persecuted and “dwell on the earth.” This verifies the fact that this group is speaking of the disembodied saints and that they are located in heaven. Those who would suggest that “the souls” outlined in Revelation 20:4 are anything other than the same heavenly saints described in Revelation 6:9-10 are sadly mistaken. The Premillennial argument that they are glorified believers reigning over the wicked on earth during a supposed future post-Second Advent millennium is surely unsound?

It is important to note, the same word in the same tense is used to describe both the righteous and the wicked during the millennium. Both parties remain in their current state until the one final future climactic Coming of Christ. Then they will receive their eternal reward. The word zaō in the Greek simply means to live. It is rendered “lived” in the King James Version. It is active, meaning the subject continues to exist in the state indicated by the verb. This proves we are currently in the millennium.

 

[WPM]

No one denies, including Premils, that saints have been being martyred since the time of Christ's ascension back into heaven. That's not disputable. What is disputable, is that same past 2000 years meaning the millennium recorded in Revelation 20? If Amils have both the beast and satan in the pit this entire past 2000 years, who then are Amils claiming are behind all this martyring of saints over these past 2000 years? Are Amils claiming that while the beast and satan are locked in the pit, they are active outside of the pit at the same time? If that's true, prove your point per the locusts recorded in Revelation 9. Because, while they are depicted locked away in the pit, it's as if they don't even exist since there is not one sign of them doing anything on the earth while in the pit.

Again you are deliberately twisting the Amillennial position. You are judging it by your faulty understanding of what the binding and imprisonment of Satan and the beast looks like. In reality, we are looking at spiritual entities. We're not looking at human beings. We are therefore not looking at a brick penitentiary. We are not looking at metal chains.

The devil has been under spiritual restraint since the first resurrection. That does not mean he cannot perpetrate his evil within the boundaries God has given him. That's spiritual prison is on the earth. It involves divine boundaries that he cannot overstep.

The wicked are depicted throughout Scripture as being in a spiritual prison, and bound by spiritual chains. Do you take that literal?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's IS a problem for amils, but not a fatal one. It basically forces them (us?) to go identify some historical person as the false prophet and/or beast.

It's not a problem for amils at all. The false prophet is the beast that rises from the earth (Revelation 13:11). Prophetic beasts are kingdoms (Daniel 7:23). Nothing can force us to conclude that the beast is a person or that the false prophet is a person.

 

[Wick Stick]

Lol. How about a biblical one?

Uh... doesn't exist? As far as I know, the Bible doesn't use plain language to talk about this. We only have the bits in Revelation, and they are not easy to understand. Like, how literal is any bit of Revelation? It's open for any number of interpretations

The beast, mystery of iniquity, and antichrist, were on the go during and before NT times. The mark is the spiritual mark of reprobation upon the wicked. The false prophet is false religion.

Well, you seem to have some definite opinions... not sure what you're looking at to arrive at that. Feel free to share

 

[Wick Stick]

It's not a problem for amils at all. The false prophet is the beast that rises from the earth (Revelation 13:11). Prophetic beasts are kingdoms (Daniel 7:23). Nothing can force us to conclude that the beast is a person or that the false prophet is a person.

Nothing can force any conclusion when Revelation is so nebulous, but...

Throughout the Bible, kingdoms and their kings are synonymous. When the prophets write, they use them interchangeably. If you're putting a difference between them... well, the Bible doesn't.

 

[Davidpt]

but I do consider amil to be a reasonable position

If they ever get around to providing the Scripture that shows when and how these in Revelation 20:4---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands--and then show how it supports Amil, in the meantime it's hard to see their position as reasonable. Because, in my mind, Revelation 13 and the 42 month reign of the beast is the only era of time that could possibly explain this in Revelation 20:4---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands. And that this means the 42 month reign can't be after the thousand years.

Per Amil satan's little season precedes the 2nd coming. Per the NT, the 42 month reign of the beast precedes the 2nd coming. Therefore, Amil can't work because the 42 month reign of the beast can't fit after the thousand years. And Amil needs it to fit after the thousand years in order for Amil to be the correct position.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nothing can force any conclusion when Revelation is so nebulous, but...

Throughout the Bible, kingdoms and their kings are synonymous. When the prophets write, they use them interchangeably. If you're putting a difference between them... well, the Bible doesn't.

Of course, kingdom have kings. I didn't say otherwise. But, prophetic beasts themselves refer to kingdoms.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

 

[WPM]

Uh... doesn't exist? As far as I know, the Bible doesn't use plain language to talk about this. We only have the bits in Revelation, and they are not easy to understand. Like, how literal is any bit of Revelation? It's open for any number of interpretations


Well, you seem to have some definite opinions... not sure what you're looking at to arrive at that. Feel free to share

I beg to differ. Most Bible scholars of whatever persuasion identify “the beast” with “antichrist” and the “mystery of iniquity”. They believe that they all refer to the same entity. Other titles include, “that man of sin,” “the son of perdition,” and “that Wicked” one.

The reason why many good Bible scholars have held that the “man of sin” is not a lone human being is because he has been alive and kicking for a lot longer than the lifetime of any human. In fact, the beast/antichrist/the mystery of iniquity/the son of perdition/that Wicked one has been about for 2,000 years+.

The Beast

Revelation 17:8 states, “The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”

This passage strongly shows that the beast existed prior to the day of John, stating, “the beast that was.” Notwithstanding, the terminology that follows appears slightly contradictory – “is not, and yet is.” One could be tempted to reason: it either is or else it isn’t, notwithstanding, this reading plainly says that it both “is” and “is not.” The import of the reading appears to demonstrate that the beast did exist in John’s day, and in fact, before John’s day, but that it had not fully developed into what it would eventually become. There is a saying in Northern Ireland that appears to explain this reading – ‘He is a big fellow, but a wee jacket fits him’ i.e. ‘he is not as big as he thinks he is’. This appears to be the meaning.

Revelation 17:11-13 further enlarges, “the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.”

A plain reading of these passages proves that, whatever the beast truly represents, he/it was expressly in existence before the time that John received this symbolic revelation. The beast cannot therefore merely be a last few years end-time phenomenon, as some would have us believe. After all, he existed before John wrote Revelation. We learn through the apostle’s first century testimony that the beast expressly “was” (past tense). In fact, the passage mentions this fact three times (twice in verse 8, and once in verse 11). Therefore, he existed before John. He also existed at the time of John – who said of his day, the beast “is” (present tense). John then explained that the beast would continue after his day, saying it “shall” be (future tense). In fact, Scripture tells us that the beast, and the false prophet, will only finally be destroyed at the all-consummating second coming of the Lord, where they will be “cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone” (Revelation 19:20). Why would this world system be destroyed at Christ’s coming and then re-emerge in a future millennium as the sand of the sea?

Having said all this, the terminology that follows is strange and appears contradictory, saying, “is not, and yet is.” One could naturally be tempted to reason: the beast either is or else it isn’t, although, this reading plainly says that the beast both “is” and “is not” at the same time. Whilst the import of the reading indicates that the beast existed in John’s day, it would seem to suggest that it did so in a restrained or restricted manner. How else can we marry the two facts that the beast “is” and “is not” at the same time. The system represented by the beast must have been around in John’s day, albeit in a curtailed manner – a bit like a prisoner that has full movement within a prison, although, he is restricted to particular areas at given times and must continually abide by the careful rules and guidelines that govern his movements within the penitentiary. He has freedom – to a degree, but in another hand he is not free to do as he wishes. The bottom line is: the prisoner would be viewed by every sane observer as bound.

The beast “was” because Satan and his kingdom operated long before Christ ever invaded his territory at the first Advent. He is deemed “is not” because, through Christ's successful completion of His Father’s assignment on earth He roundly defeated Satan in his own backyard and spiritually spoiled his goods and influence. Christ instigated the great triumphant global advance upon the kingdom of darkness. This has inflicted great injury and damage upon the antichrist spirit for near 2,000 years. Christ went forth conquering and to conquer through the successful spread of the Gospel to the nations. The fact is the gates of hell can never prevail against the Church of Jesus Christ.

The beast “is not” because Satan no longer exercises complete unchallenged control over the nations as he once did before the cross. Revelation 13:1-4 shows that at some stage in history one of the beast’s heads were “wounded” thus incapacitating this evil ogre. This can only refer to the cross and Christ’s great victory over the kingdom of darkness. This transaction placed chains upon the rebellious principalities and powers which remain until Satan’s little season.

The beast “is” (at the time of John's writing) because even though Christ spiritual bound him at the cross, he was allowed to continue to operate for a prescribed period, albeit under very definite limits which God has divinely set. These cannot be penetrated.

 

[WPM]

Uh... doesn't exist? As far as I know, the Bible doesn't use plain language to talk about this. We only have the bits in Revelation, and they are not easy to understand. Like, how literal is any bit of Revelation? It's open for any number of interpretations


Well, you seem to have some definite opinions... not sure what you're looking at to arrive at that. Feel free to share

That spirit of antichrist

1 John 2:18-23: “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”

This passage supports the idea that antichrist has existed throughout the intra-Advent period. John describes that time as the last days.

1 John 4:1-3, 5-6: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world … They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”

Here is more proof that antichrist existed back in Bible times. This fits with what Revelation says of the beast. John testifies: “even now already is it in the world.” Antichrist cannot obviously be some wicked leader that is raised up to reign in the last 7 years, last 3 ½ years or last few years before the Lord's return. He must be an influence or agency that has been working in the hearts of evil men for many centuries. Evidently, no wicked human has survived since John's day!

2 John 1:7: “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”

Antichrist is clearly not limited to one man at the end as Futurists argue. Antichrist covers the full gamut of those belonging to the devil.

The mystery of iniquity (or lawlessness)

Paul explains in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-12 of his day, “For the mystery of iniquity [Gr. lawlessness] doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

The first thing we here is that “the mystery of iniquity” was alive and kicking 2000 years ago. Paul confirms what Revelation 17:8 and Revelation 17:11-13 is expressing that this entity was functioning in his day. This baleful influence is not some has evidently been around for a long time. Saying all this, he is depicted as being restrained in this New Testament age up until the end when the restraint will be taken off him. This is clearly talking about his ongoing existence throughout the new covenant era albeit in a curtailed manner. This must confirm the restrained consequences that enveloped the whole kingdom of darkness as a result of the earthly ministry of Christ.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 20:4 is simply talking about the dead in Christ that reign as kings and priests now with Christ in heaven. They have experienced their "part" in the "first resurrection in life (salvation) and now they rule with Him in glory. Simple!

No, the resurrected martyred great tribulation saints, who refused to worship the beast (who will rule for 42 months) and his image (the abomination of desolation setup 1335 days before Jesus Returns) are brought back to life as the first resurrection (of the millennium period) and will reign with Christ one thousand years here on earth - while Satan is in the bottomless prison for 1000 years in Revelation 20:1-3

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If they ever get around to providing the Scripture that shows when and how these in Revelation 20:4---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands--and then show how it supports Amil, in the meantime it's hard to see their position as reasonable. Because, in my mind, Revelation 13 and the 42 month reign of the beast is the only era of time that could possibly explain this in Revelation 20:4---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands. And that this means the 42 month reign can't be after the thousand years.

Per Amil satan's little season precedes the 2nd coming. Per the NT, the 42 month reign of the beast precedes the 2nd coming. Therefore, Amil can't work because the 42 month reign of the beast can't fit after the thousand years. And Amil needs it to fit after the thousand years in order for Amil to be the correct position.

There's more than just one way to look at Revelation 20. You try to force amils to prove something about Revelation 20 using your terms, which is ridiculous. You want us to prove amil with YOUR futurist understanding of the beast, a literal 42 months, the binding of Satan and so on, which is completely unreasonable.

Why not look at verse 6 to help understand the context and timing of the chapter, overall, instead of focusing only on verse 4? I'll repeat what I said earlier for your consideration.

Another thing we can do to show the timing of Revelation 20 is to compare these two passages:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first thing to notice here is that it says Jesus Christ is "the first begotten of the dead". That means He was the first to rise from the dead. His resurrection unto bodily immortality made it possible for the dead in Christ to also be resurrected unto bodily immortality when He comes (1 Cor 15:22-23).

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

The next thing to notice is that it calls Jesus "the prince of the kings of the earth" and "to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever". Present tense. He reigns now, as other scriptures in indicate as well (Matt 28:16-18, Eph 1:19-23, Col 1:12-13).

The next thing to notice is that having part in the first resurrection, which is Christ's resurrection, results in the second death having no power over someone. At what point does the second death no longer have power over someone? Surely, it doesn't have power over the dead in Christ whose souls are in heaven with Jesus right now. Surely, a bodily resurrection is not necessary in order to avoid the second death or else those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord would not avoid the second death. Spiritually having part in Christ's resurrection and having your sins washed away by His blood is how the second death no longer has power over someone.

Finally, notice when people are made priests of God and of Christ. That had already occurred at the time John was writing the book. Peter wrote that those in the church ARE a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9). So, that again shows how Revelation 20 has been a reality for a long time already. All of the things written in Revelation 20:6 have been true about Christ and for believers since the resurrection of Christ.

 

[WPM]

If they ever get around to providing the Scripture that shows when and how these in Revelation 20:4---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands--and then show how it supports Amil, in the meantime it's hard to see their position as reasonable. Because, in my mind, Revelation 13 and the 42 month reign of the beast is the only era of time that could possibly explain this in Revelation 20:4---which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands. And that this means the 42 month reign can't be after the thousand years.

Per Amil satan's little season precedes the 2nd coming. Per the NT, the 42 month reign of the beast precedes the 2nd coming. Therefore, Amil can't work because the 42 month reign of the beast can't fit after the thousand years. And Amil needs it to fit after the thousand years in order for Amil to be the correct position.

Address Amil posts instead of constantly avoiding them; and stop talking on behalf of us. You do not understand Amil.

 

[Davidpt]

The false prophet is false religion.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Now you need to convincingly explain how false religion can be taken, then cast alive into the LOF, to then be tormented day and night for ever and ever according to Revelation 20:10.

 

[WPM]

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Now you need to convincingly explain how false religion can be taken, then cast alive into the LOF, to then be tormented day and night for ever and ever according to Revelation 20:10.

It is the spirit behind false religion, just like antichrist is a secular spirit.

 

[Marty fox]

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Now you need to convincingly explain how false religion can be taken, then cast alive into the LOF, to then be tormented day and night for ever and ever according to Revelation 20:10.

Because its a demon behind and influencing it

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No one denies, including Premils, that saints have been being martyred since the time of Christ's ascension back into heaven. That's not disputable. What is disputable, is that same past 2000 years meaning the millennium recorded in Revelation 20? If Amils have both the beast and satan in the pit this entire past 2000 years, who then are Amils claiming are behind all this martyring of saints over these past 2000 years? Are Amils claiming that while the beast and satan are locked in the pit, they are active outside of the pit at the same time?

Yes, of course! Why are you acting as if you've never talked to Amils about this before? We don't see his binding as you do. How can you not know that by now? You interpret a dragon being bound with a chain in a bottomless pit/prison literally as if Satan, a spirit being, can be literally chained up. We see his binding as a restraint on what he was able to do in OT times compared to NT times.

This is my understanding of Satan's binding which is completely different than yours. You're always wanting Amils to prove things based on YOUR understanding of things, which is ridiculous.

You do not understand why Satan was bound. It has nothing to do with completely incapacitating Satan as you believe, it has to do with Jesus destroying his works (1 John 3:8) and taking the power of death away from him (Hebrews 2:14-15) in order to make the way for the gospel of Christ to shine light to the world that was formerly almost completely in spiritual darkness because they had "no hope, and were without God in the world" (Ephesians 2:11-13).

I believe all of the following passages relate to Satan's binding and all of them talk about the impact that Jesus and the preaching of His gospel has had on the world for the past almost 2,000 years. An impact that premils like yourself do not acknowledge.

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Acts 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

All of the above passages relate to the binding of Satan which has to do with Jesus coming to "destroy the works of the devil" by way of taking "the power of death" away from him which he formerly used to keep the world (especially the Gentiles) in spiritual darkness and in slavery to the fear of death (due to previously having no hope of eternal life). Before He came very few Gentiles in the world had been saved, but after that a multitude has been saved. That was made possible by way of Jesus binding Satan and restraining the power he once held over the world to make it possible for people to be delivered "from the power of Satan unto God".

The binding of Satan has nothing to do with making Satan completely powerless as premils imagine. It has to do with spoiling his house, destroying his works, taking the power of death away from him and keeping him from deceiving almost the entire world awhile keeping them in spiritual darkness as slaves to the fear of death as he was able to do in OT times.

If that's true, prove your point per the locusts recorded in Revelation 9. Because, while they are depicted locked away in the pit, it's as if they don't even exist since there is not one sign of them doing anything on the earth while in the pit.

LOL. Why do you want to interpret everything in the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible so literally? Is it talking about literal locusts? Do literal locusts have an angel as their king? No. So, the whole thing is symbolic. It's not talking about literal locusts being literally locked away in a literal pit. That's ridiculous. That is all symbolic for how the fallen angels are in chains of darkness awaiting their judgment. But, they and their king Satan get one last little season to wreak havoc on the earth before they are cast into the lake of fire forever.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

These verses talk about the fallen angels being in "chains of darkness" while being reserved unto judgment. Is that supposed to be understood as them being literally chained up? That's ridiculous. they are spirit beings and are not literally chained up. It's a figurative description of the fact that their eternal destiny is already set in stone and there's nothing they can do about it. I understand their binding in chains the same way as Satan's. It has nothing to do with them being incapacitated.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Now you need to convincingly explain how false religion can be taken, then cast alive into the LOF, to then be tormented day and night for ever and ever according to Revelation 20:10.

LOL. You are always trying to find a way around things. Are death and hell going to be tormented forever in the lake of fire?

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[WPM]

LOL. You are always trying to find a way around things. Are death and hell going to be tormented forever in the lake of fire?

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Don't expect a response on this. Every time his argument is refuted he moves unto another subject.

 

[Davidpt]

Address Amil posts instead of constantly avoiding them; and stop talking on behalf of us. You do not understand Amil.

First of all, I haven't gotten around to reading every post yet. Still working on that. Some of these posts you might be meaning, there is a chance I haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

 

[WPM]

First of all, I haven't gotten around to reading every post yet. Still working on that. Some of these posts you might be meaning, there is a chance I haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

Ok. understand.