The battle of Gog and Magog does not happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ

[TribulationSigns]

The word generation NEVER means "life expectancy", as I've showed him and he somehow thinks that's the only definition of the word. A definition he made up in his own mind. Unbelievable.

Sadly, this is how people privately interpret the Bible to force it to say what THEY want to believe in order to sell their false doctrines of Dispensationalism.

 

[Zao is life]

You took verse 19 out of context. Jesus and the disciples were returning to Jerusalem from over-nighting in Bethany.

In Matthew 23:39, Jesus said of Jerusalem

No you took verse 19 of Matthew 21 out of context. The context of Matthew 21 is Jesus and the priests, Pharisees and elders (leaders) of the people, and who has the authority: They, or Jesus?. And that's what the parables are about too. The context is not Matthew 23, nor "all the Jews" i.e the people, symbolized by Jerusalem.

Your failed attempt at changing the context of Matthew 21, and it shows that you can't recognize context even when it stares you in the face because you create a context that isn't the context of a passage in order to make every passage of scripture comply with all your theories.​

 

[Douggg]

Yes, you have. Several times. Why are you lying? That is the reason you think "this generation" lasts for 70 years because you think a generation refers to a human being's life expectancy and you base that on your understanding of Psalm 90:10. Why are you denying that now?

You are taking what I wrote and then reframing it with your words, to make it sound like something I said.

I did not say "this generation" lasts for 70 years.

I wrote:

"Every generation of human beings - the human beings of that generation have a certain life expectancy."

Stop misrepresenting what I wrote.

 

[Douggg]

No you took verse 19 of Matthew 21 out of context. The context of Matthew 21 is Jesus and the priests, Pharisees and elders (leaders) of the people, and who has the authority: They, or Jesus?. And that's what the parables are about too. The context is not Matthew 23, nor "all the Jews" i.e the people, symbolized by Jerusalem.

The parable of the fig tree is about the generation that will not pass away without witnessing what Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24:15-31, which includes His return.

 

[David in NJ]

True, "IF" you got the timing of the millennial kingdom correct. Not in the future as premillennialists believe. The 1,000 millennial kingdom is the church. Satan was bound by Christ at the Cross for 1,000 years (fullness of time of whatever is in view, not 1,000 literal years) so that Christ could build the church with people being born again by hearing the Gospel. Do you realize that being born again IS the First Resurrection in Christ - when we were made alive from the spiritual dead?

The battle of Gog and Magog comes at the end of the millennial kingdom when the church has become apostasy and desolation which is a prelude to the Second Coming. That's it!

JESUS says that satan is NOT yet bound and that he will not be bound in chains until Christ's Second Coming.

So you need to line yourself UP with the words of Christ and His Apostles and Prophets.

 

[TribulationSigns]

JESUS says that satan is NOT yet bound and that he will not be bound in chains until Christ's Second Coming.

Where in Scripture does it say that Satan will be bound at the Second Coming. Show us.

So you need to line yourself UP with the words of Christ and His Apostles and Prophets.

I did. Clearly, you did not read and understand Revelation 12.

Rev 12:7-11
(7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
(11) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Satan and his messengers was cast out of the kingdom of heaven (Old Testament congregation that was falling). He was bound at the Cross so that "Now is come salvation" when the NEW TESTAMENT Brethren have overcame him by the blood of the lamb and preach Gospel to he world. So tell me, do you believe that the SALVATION and the KINGDOM OF GOD did NOT come after the Cross (after Pentecost) but only occur after the Second Coming, humm? Else, we are not saved today, which is why Satan had to be bound FIRST, Selah! Read Matthew 12:28-29 yourself and THINK!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are taking what I wrote and then reframing it with your words, to make it sound like something I said.

I did not say "this generation" lasts for 70 years.

I wrote:

"Every generation of human beings - the human beings of that generation have a certain life expectancy."

Stop misrepresenting what I wrote.

I'm not misrepresenting what you wrote at all. Why are you lying about this? You said that you believe "this generation" began in 1967 and will end in 2037. Are you now denying that you said that? So, yes, you did indicate that you believe "this generation" lasts for 70 years. Why in the world are you trying to deny that now when you have said that multiple times?

You have said several times that you believe the word generation refers to the human life expectancy and you did it again here. You cite Psalm 90:10 as evidence for that despite the fact that the verse saying nothing about a generation and instead only refers to the human life span, which is not a synonym for the word generation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The parable of the fig tree is about the generation that will not pass away without witnessing what Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24:15-31, which includes His return.

No, the parable of the fig tree is directly related to how soon Christ's second coming would be when people saw certain things beginning to come to pass. Matthew 24:33 explains the context of Matthew 24:32.

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

You know that Jesus sometimes would tell a parable and then explain it, right? That's what He did here as well. The part of the parable where Jesus said "When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves" correlates with Him saying "when ye shall see all these things" which were the things He mentioned as occurring before His second coming like many false Christ and false prophets deceiving many and such. And saying "yet know that summer is nigh" correlates with Him saying "know that it is near, even at the doors" with "it" being His second coming.

The parable itself has nothing to do with "this generation" because it only has to do with the nearness of His return when the things He had talked about start coming to pass. In contrast to that, "this generation" will not pass away not only after "these things" that happen before His return come to pass but after His return and the gathering of the elect come to pass as well. Then "this generation" will pass away and even "heaven and earth will pass away" as He mentioned in the very next verse after indicating when this generation will pass away. So, "all these things" in verse 33 refer to the things that happen just before His return and gathering of the elect, which is what the parable is about, and then "all these things" in verse 34 include "these things" of verse 33 AND His coming and gathering of the elect as well. So, verse 34 does not fit the context of the parable, but verse 33 does.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where in Scripture does it say that Satan will be bound at the Second Coming. Show us.


I did. Clearly, you did not read and understand Revelation 12.

Rev 12:7-11
(7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
(11) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Satan and his messengers was cast out of the kingdom of heaven (Old Testament congregation that was falling). He was bound at the Cross so that "Now is come salvation" when the NEW TESTAMENT Brethren have overcame him by the blood of the lamb and preach Gospel to he world. So tell me, do you believe that the SALVATION and the KINGDOM OF GOD did NOT come after the Cross (after Pentecost) but only occur after the Second Coming, humm? Else, we are not saved today, which is why Satan had to be bound FIRST, Selah! Read Matthew 12:28-29 yourself and THINK!

Exactly. How can anyone think that salvation comes at any time except when Jesus died and rose again? How can anyone think that the kingdom of God did not come yet when it clearly came in power on the day of Pentecost? There is no excuse for this ignorance. People are interpreting the book of Revelation in isolation from the rest of scripture and they end up with interpretations that contradict many other scripture passages. And they don't seem to even care about that. Sad.

 

[Douggg]

The parable itself has nothing to do with "this generation" because it only has to do with the nearness of His return when the things

Then why did Jesus say in verse 34...

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

...?

Why do you truncate verse 34 from the parable ?

 

[Douggg]

I'm not misrepresenting what you wrote at all. Why are you lying about this? You said that you believe "this generation" began in 1967 and will end in 2037. Are you now denying that you said that? So, yes, you did indicate that you believe "this generation" lasts for 70 years. Why in the world are you trying to deny that now when you have said that multiple times?

You are doing it again....using your words as though they were mine.

Copy and paste my words, without restating what I wrote with your words.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then why did Jesus say in verse 34...

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

...?

Why do you truncate verse 34 from the parable ?

I already explained this in my post #208. Did you read all of it?

 

[Zao is life]

No, I am saying that every generation has a life expectancy.

Therefore the sons of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their life expectancies (generations), for an everlasting [olam] covenant. Exo 31:16.

Not make sense Lo. לא . Nicht. Nao. Niet

 

[Zao is life]

The parable of the fig tree is about the generation that will not pass away without witnessing what Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24:15-31, which includes His return.

Is that why it was cursed forever by Christ?

How did the authority of the priesthood pass from the Mosaic priesthood to Christ (Galatians 3:13; Hebrews 7:12)?

Was it temporary or forever?

15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things which He did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David, they were angry.
16 And they said to Him, Do you hear what these say? And Jesus said to them, Yes, have you never read, "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings You have perfected praise?"
17 And leaving them, He went out of the city to Bethany, and spent the night there.
18 And returning early to the city, He hungered.
19 And seeing a fig tree in the way, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only. And He said to it, let no fruit grow on you forever. And immediately the fig tree withered away.
20 And when the disciples saw, they marveled, saying, How quickly the fig tree has withered away!

23 And when He had come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to Him as He was teaching, and said, By what authority do you do these things? And who gave you this authority?
24 And Jesus answered and said to them, I will also ask you one thing; which if you tell Me, I likewise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
25 The baptism of John, where was it from? From Heaven or from men? And they reasoned within themselves, saying, If we shall say, From Heaven, he will say to us, Why then did you not believe him?
26 But if we shall say From men, we fear the people; for all consider John as a prophet.
27 And they answered Jesus and said, We cannot tell. And He said to them, Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things.

The rest of the chapter consists of Jesus telling parables about the priesthood and the kingdom and the authority of the Kingdom being taken from them and given to a nation bearing the fruits thereof.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that He spoke of them.

43 Therefore I say to you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing out its fruits.

19 And seeing a fig tree in the way, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only. And He said to it, let no fruit grow on you forever. And immediately the fig tree withered away.

43 Therefore I say to you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing out its fruits.

"But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for possession, so that you might speak of the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; you who then were not a people, but now the people of God, those not pitied then, but now pitied." -- 1 Peter 2:9-10

43 Therefore I say to you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing out its fruits.

11 Therefore if perfection were by the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the Law), what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change made in the law also.
13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man gave attendance at the altar.​

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is still far more evident, since there arises a different priest after the likeness of Melchizedek,
16 who is made, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.
17 For He testifies, "You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek."
18 For truly there is a putting away of the commandment which went before, because of the weakness and unprofitableness of it.
19 For the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did, by which we draw near to God.
20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath
21 (for those priests were made without an oath, but this one was made with an oath by Him who said to Him, "The Lord swore and will not repent, You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek,")
22 by so much was Jesus made a surety of a better covenant.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not allowed to continue because of death;
24 but He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.

We will never go back to the Levitical priesthood. The fig tree was cursed by Jesus forever.

Understand the meaning of the cursing of the fig tree instead of trying to force scripture to comply with your own theories.​

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are doing it again....using your words as though they were mine.

Copy and paste my words, without restating what I wrote with your words.

LOL. You are quite a character, Doug. Look at you trying to backtrack on what you said.

You said "Jay, another approach is the parable of the fig tree generation. 1967 + 70 years =2037. The 1000 years of Revelation 20 will begin by the end of 2037.".

Here is the post: The battle of Gog and Magog does not happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ

Then there is this post as well: The battle of Gog and Magog does not happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ

In that post you said this:

how long is a generation. Psalms 90:10, three score and ten. 70 years.
1967 +70 = 2037 Not later than end of 2037, the 1000 years of Revelation 20 will begin. The parable of the fig tree generation is what Jesus gave as the indicator of His Return.
The fig tree cannot represent Israel in the parable because those numbers have expired.

1948 +70 = 2018

 

[Douggg]

@Spiritual Israelite

Douggg said:

how long is a generation. Psalms 90:10, three score and ten. 70 years.
1967 +70 = 2037 Not later than end of 2037, the 1000 years of Revelation 20 will begin. The parable of the fig tree generation is what Jesus gave as the indicator of His Return.
The fig tree cannot represent Israel in the parable because those numbers have expired.

1948 +70 = 2018

Yes, I was replying to Jay about the fundamental two factors in determining when the deadline could be determined for Jesus's return to begin the 1000 year millennium.

I was speaking in very concise terms. - which you are interpreting as me defining a generation, and not how long it would be before the people making up that generation would pass.

The numbers I posted of 1948 +70 = 2018 have expired, meaning that the fig tree cannot represent Israel.

But the fig tree representing Jerusalem, 1967 +70 = 2030 is still valid. Which also indicates that Gog/Magog should take place before the end of 2030.

Why aren't you talking about the topic of this thread - of when Gog/Magog will take place ?

 

[Lizbeth]

I disagree the battle of Armageddon happens before the thousand year reign of Christ, and the battle of Gog and Magog happens after the thousand years is completed.

We haven't been interpreting Revelation properly. We are in the "thousand year" reign of Christ NOW. 2Peter 3 shows that the thousand years as a day (while it is still called toDAY) is the time of His longsuffering which we are to account as salvation (this age of grace which when souls may be saved...again while it is still called toDAY as the bible says elsewhere) .

And Jesus said His kingdom comes not with our careful observation that you may say lo here or lo there, but it is within/among us. On the contrary, those who would say lo here it is, or lo there, as if it is a kingdom to be seen with our physical eyes are not to be followed or believed.

Read Luke 17:20-30 carefully. Looking for a utopian kingdom on this earth is what tripped up the Jewish leaders and Pharisees concerning what they expected their Messiah to accomplish. Jesus in the passage below attempted to correct them on this. No earthly utopian kingdom is to be expected at the coming of Christ because this world is all going to be destroyed at His coming, which 2 Peter 3 also says.

Luk 17:20-30

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Lizbeth]

It isn't hard to disprove the AMill theory:
1/ Jesus is not reigning now, that is glaringly obvious. He does have the authority, but just as David waited many years before becoming King, so is Jesus.
2/ The scriptures you post to refer to the second coming, are not for that glorious event at all. They refer to the coming Sixth Seal - the Lords Day of vengeance and wrath, years before the Return.
3/ ALL the dead will be resurrected for Judgment at the final Judgment, after Jesus has reigned on earth for the final 1000 years of Gods 7000 year plan for mankind.
Note; that there will be living people there too and if their names are found in the Book of Life, they will receive immortality without dying. 1 Corinthians 15:50-56

It is foolishness to think Jesus will Return just to destroy everything.
The clear description of things to happen at the glorious Return, do not match with the vivid Prophesies about the terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath. There is no fire or worldwide destruction at the Return, even those killed at Armageddon are nor burned, Rev 19:21

The great Reset of our Civilization, Isaiah 66:15-17, +, will be the event which will commence all the Prophesied end times things.

In addition to what Spiritual Israelite pointed out, that all authority in heaven and earth was already given to Jesus , please consider also that at His coming, Jesus is going to hand the kingdom back over to the Father, ending His "thousand year reign"....so how can He rule and reign after that?


1Co 15:23-28

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[marks]

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

When does the Bible say that death is destroyed?

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

When does the Bible say that death is destroyed?

Much love!

As far as I can see it is at the judgment which is at the return of Christ....Rev. 20:13-14