Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[JLB]

You reject Gods Word, because you have been deceived by the false Arminian theology. So you're unable to rightly divide the Word of God, you don't have any discernment. Your approach to Gods Word is to alter it to make it say what your Arminian theology dictates.

You're accusing God of being the author of confusion, just because of your ignorance of His Word. God doesn't contradict Himself as you're suggesting He does. There are many stupid persons who take Gods Word out of it's intended context and push their doctrine of Demons.

Now if you what to vindicate yourself, you need to list all the various Biblical meanings of terms, "ALL MEN" and "The WORLD". You can only see scripture through the distorted Arminian lens, you need to understand that Arminius can't override what Gods said.

You falsely claim that words are only used in a single context in the entire Bible, that alone condemns your theology as false, let alone all your other claims.

How does a "false convert" remain in Christ?

You are dangerously applying your own "understanding" to the words of Christ.

I find this to be the case more and more, people just making up their own doctrine rather than reading and believing the words of truth and applying them to their life.


Let's look at some context -


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

• “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit;

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

The contextual teaching here is about those who are in Christ.

No mention of false converts. Only those who are in Christ.

Here is how this same Apostle John instructs us to remain in Christ -


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24







JLB

 

[Christian Soldier]

lol. Again, no rebuttle only attack, Typical calvinist ploy. I can not actually defeat my enemy with the word of God so I have to attach them.

yeah good luck with that, when you have something come talk to me

I never correct anyone, by my private opinion. I always correct and refute false doctrine by what the Bible teaches about the matter. I can't help it if some chose to deny Gods Word and make Him a liar.

 

[Christian Soldier]

No he is not.

Yes, He is a God of justice. But it does not retract from the fact he is a God of love, He died for everyone because he loved them, and he will judge them if they do nto recieve his love gift.


Dude, stop it your making a fool of yourself.

There are no arminians that I know of in this chat room, if there are. they are well hiden..

You want to talk about the word. lets talk. You want to play this silly game I will ignore you.

I am not rejecting the god of the bible. you are..

What evidence do you have that the US does not refer to me?

No. Because I believe in OSAS or eternal salvation. So you just made a total and utter fool of youirself in falsly accusing me of somethign I am not.

I REJECT ARMINIAN THEOLOG AND CALVIN THEOLOGY>

Get that through your head dude.. Or go someplace e4lse. i am sure there are many calvinist chatrooms you can go and pounce on people all you want

YAWN. Nothing here to even give any heed to. all based on lack of knowledge and brainwashing..

yes, I am being strong in my words. because what you are doing is for the birds. i am calling you out for it.

You most certainly have created a fictitious God in your own mind. The god you describe is not found in the Bible, you blatantly deny what God said and you refuse to even acknowledge what He said. That leaves me no option but to consider you an enemy of the truth.

You refuse to cite and scripture to support your false claim that God is only love, or that He died for everyone. Most here subscribe to Arminian theology, just as the vast majority of the professing Christians believe in the works based (Arminian) gospel. You claim that you don't but then you show that you do by your theological assertions.

My evidence against your erroneous interpretation of the word "us", is that God's Word refutes your (Armenian) "Universalism" where everyone is saved no matter who or what they are or what they have done. The god who would save everyone is an evil monster, who loves sick child murderers and child rapists. So I hate that god you have invented in your mind because he's an enemy of the God of the Bible, who hates such scum gods.

 

[Christian Soldier]

To these I would add at least Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 2:14, and Ephesians 2:3, that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", "sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned", "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned," and "(all men are ) by nature children of wrath," respectively. This is what so many will not accept, what Calvin called the total depravity of man. If they were able to digest that, then the rest of the chips would surely fall... the U, L, I, and P would then ~ in order ~ be irrefutable. But, so it goes...

Grace and peace to you, CS.

I think the reason so many "Christians" reject what Gods Word says about His sovereignty in salvation, is that it leaves no room for their ride or boasting. They simply cannot embrace Gods Word as it was spoken, so God gave them over to serve sin and Satan.

2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

This is why so many, reject the sound Reformed interpretation of the Bible and invent different "seeker friendly" gospels, which pervert the truth and lead people to hell.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm only quoting Gods Word and you find that offensive.

If you were quoting Gods word I would comment on it, All i see is you attacking everyone who does not agree with you

I believe Reformed Theology is Biblically sound, you mock it but you have never ever found a single fault with it.

Thats because you’re a man follower.

You don't like it, because it exposes your false doctrine.

Oh really. Explain my false doctrine. (This should be good)

I can see any other reason as you haven't given any for your rejection of Gods Word.

It would be interesting to find out what you actually believe, you have never stated it. You just slander what others believe, without providing any counter argument and that does nothing for your credibility.

Lol. Thats because you have been too busy attacking me and calling me an arminian to hear what I believe.

once again, Put your calvinist books down and open the word of God and listen to people. Then you may stop attacking them for being something they are not

 

[Eternally Grateful]

My purpose is to share the gospel with everyone. I must defend the truth of the gospel, when someone denies the truth. I appreciate the gospel is highly offensive to many professing Christians, but I don't think we should pretend to agree with those who pervert the gospel and preach a different gospel.
The gospel message shouldn't be perverted for the sake of unity and harmony, as that would dishonor the Lord. I would rather be loved by God, then wicked man.

I have not heard the gospel from you. Once again all I have heard is you attack everyone and call them arminian.

I agree, the gospel message should not be perverted. And we should not be follower of men but followers of God..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I never correct anyone, by my private opinion. I always correct and refute false doctrine by what the Bible teaches about the matter. I can't help it if some chose to deny Gods Word and make Him a liar.

Still

All pop and not a lick of scripture.

Your a master in your own head..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You most certainly have created a fictitious God in your own mind. The god you describe is not found in the Bible, you blatantly deny what God said and you refuse to even acknowledge what He said. That leaves me no option but to consider you an enemy of the truth.

You refuse to cite and scripture to support your false claim that God is only love, or that He died for everyone. Most here subscribe to Arminian theology, just as the vast majority of the professing Christians believe in the works based (Arminian) gospel. You claim that you don't but then you show that you do by your theological assertions.

My evidence against your erroneous interpretation of the word "us", is that God's Word refutes your (Armenian) "Universalism" where everyone is saved no matter who or what they are or what they have done. The god who would save everyone is an evil monster, who loves sick child murderers and child rapists. So I hate that god you have invented in your mind because he's an enemy of the God of the Bible, who hates such scum gods.

Here you go again, Attack and falsly accuse and not one lick of scripture

I am not a universalist,I am not an arminian (I more closely follow your OSAS doctrine then an arminian legalistic doctrine)

but yu are too hard headed. You are told what to believe yiu are told what everyone else believes, and no one can convince you otherwise. So until you are ready to actually discuss the word. i am going to back out..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think the reason so many "Christians" reject what Gods Word says about His sovereignty in salvation, is that it leaves no room for their ride or boasting. They simply cannot embrace Gods Word as it was spoken, so God gave them over to serve sin and Satan.

2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

This is why so many, reject the sound Reformed interpretation of the Bible and invent different "seeker friendly" gospels, which pervert the truth and lead people to hell.

Who is boasting, but the calvinist who thinks he or she is special that God chose them and did not chose many other people.

Reformed theology is not sound, it is no more sound than Arminian theology or Roman Catholic theology. They are all flawed to the tooth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Wrong. They are not connected. God is obligated to keep every one of them, He even kept the mosaic (one we did not and could not keep)


Again, you would be wrong.

What does God giving a nation of people a plot of land, and saying as long as you obe me, I will bless you. But if you disobey, I will punish you, 7 times more each time, up to and including national defeat and total destruction of their cities. But if they repent God will remember the land and his covenant with the fathers have to do with the salvation of any person on earth? Nothing!!!

I do not see how you can look at each covenant and even come to this conclusion.


Your first error is saying it is immediate. God said forever. In all generations, as an eternal covenant, it is still binding today. Only the final form of disciplin in Lev 26 is in effect. Until Israel repents. which many OT prophets,

1. Is 11 says it will happen for the second time (it has only happened once in the past)
11. It shall come to pass in that day That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people who are left, From Assyria and Egypt, From Pathros and Cush, From Elam and Shinar, From Hamath and the [d]islands of the sea.
12 He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth.

2. Jeremiah says he will regather the remnant from where he scattered them, and they will return and he will lead them as a Shepperd

7 For thus says the Lord: “Sing with gladness for Jacob, And shout among the chief of the nations; Proclaim, give praise, and say, ‘O Lord, save Your people,
The remnant of Israel!’
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, And gather them from the ends of the earth, Among them the blind and the lame, The woman with child And the one who labors with child, together; A great throng shall return there.
9 They shall come with weeping, And with supplications I will lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters,
In a straight way in which they shall not stumble; For I am a Father to Israel, And Ephraim is My firstborn.
10 “Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, And declare it in the [c]isles afar off, and say, He who scattered Israel will gather him, And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.’
11 For the Lord has redeemed Jacob, And ransomed him from the hand of one stronger than he.
12 Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion,

3. Ez 37 says he will regather both the northern and southern kingdoms (the norther - Israel- was destroyed by Assyria, the southern - Judah was last scattered by Rome in 70 AD. And he will make them one nation again, Never to be torn into two again, And they will cease from their sins and worshiping their idols. and he will rule over them.

12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”

21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

4. In Hosea, God says Israel will suffer many days without a king or ruler. Without a religion or a place to worship and without true or false religious practices. but after this, God will return them, when they return (repent) and seek the lord..

4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They shall fear the Lord and His goodness in the latter days.

5. Zech tells us he will regather them after he redeems them, He will bring them back, because he has mercy on them, Because they shall remember him (literally they repent)

Zech 10: 6“I will strengthen the house of Judah, And I will save the house of Joseph. I will bring them back, Because I have mercy on them. They shall be as though I had not cast them aside; For I am the Lord their God, And I will hear them.
7 Those of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, And their heart shall rejoice as if with wine. Yes, their children shall see it and be glad;
Their heart shall rejoice in the Lord.
8 I will whistle for them and gather them, For I will redeem them; And they shall increase as they once increased.
9 “I will sow them among the peoples, And they shall remember Me in far countries; They shall live, together with their children, And they shall return.
10 I will also bring them back from the land of Egypt, And gather them from Assyria. I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon, Until no more room is found for them.

6. even in the NT. Jesus Says they will be scattered, and this scattering will come to an end. Until the time of the gentiles is fulfilled.

Luke 21: 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

7. Paul in romans 11. says this same thing, that blindness of Israel has happened until the fullness of the gentile shall come. THEN All Israel will be saved. Just as all the prophets and even Jesus himself said they would.

I am sorry bor. I can not look at everything above (and there is alot more) and believe any different. The church was never scattered because of her sins, The church was never dispersed or broken up into 2 nations. The church was never given a plot of land it could call its own. There is just no way to try to insert the church into the above prophecies.



I have gone to long again so will cut this up.

@PinSeeker odd you did not respond to these lovely OT passages about the return of Isreal

 

[One 2 question]

The god who would save everyone is an evil monster, who loves sick child murderers and child rapists. So I hate that god you have invented in your mind because he's an enemy of the God of the Bible, who hates such scum gods.

If we fill a prison with people who have done wrong and are deserving of incarceration, but during their life sentence one person remembers something someone had spoken to them years prior about a Person who can forgive them of their wrongdoing and provide freedom from their imprisonment. This person repents and is born again. He shares his experience which impacts more and more inmates until every person is born again and their lives show a change in them to the point that the prison warden makes a case to the High Court that all these prisoners are reformed and fit to re-enter the wider community. More than that, that these people have a lot to contribute to the wider community.

Would you be in favour of the wardens proposal or would you think that they are beyond reform and should suffer without mercy? Be it a child who dies at 3 months or Hitler or Satan. That never ending torture and suffering is fit for all regardless of their offence, (in the case of a person dying as a baby, the offense is being born in Adam) or the many offences of the Devil.

 

[Christian Soldier]

How does a "false convert" remain in Christ?

You are dangerously applying your own "understanding" to the words of Christ.

I find this to be the case more and more, people just making up their own doctrine rather than reading and believing the words of truth and applying them to their life.


Let's look at some context -


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

• “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit;

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

The contextual teaching here is about those who are in Christ.

No mention of false converts. Only those who are in Christ.

Here is how this same Apostle John instructs us to remain in Christ -


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24







JLB

A false convert was never in Christ, so the question is nonsensical. You can't remain in Christ if you never were in Christ in the first place. Not sure why you couldn't figure out that simple equation.

 

[JLB]

A false convert was never in Christ, so the question is nonsensical.

Thank you for seeing the point I was making... A false convert was never in Christ.

Now that we have that point out of the way, there is no need to bring it up again since we both agree,


My point that I am making is about people who are "in Christ", and then they are no longer in Christ, having been removed from Christ.


Let's look at some context -


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

These people were in Christ then removed from Christ by God the Father who Jesus describes as the Vinedresser.

• “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit;

Those who remain in Christ will bear much fruit, however the point is to remain in Christ. As I have shown.



Here is how this same Apostle John instructs us to remain in Christ -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

The contextual teaching here is about those who are in Christ.

No mention of false converts. Only those who are in Christ.




JLB

 

[Christian Soldier]

How does a "false convert" remain in Christ?

You are dangerously applying your own "understanding" to the words of Christ.

I find this to be the case more and more, people just making up their own doctrine rather than reading and believing the words of truth and applying them to their life.


Let's look at some context -


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

• “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit;

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

The contextual teaching here is about those who are in Christ.

No mention of false converts. Only those who are in Christ.

Here is how this same Apostle John instructs us to remain in Christ -


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24







JLB

John 15:1-6 was spoken in parabolic language, but you took it literally and that's why you're so confused about it's meaning. "Every branch in Me" are the professing believers AKA the Church, now I'm sure you have heard that the Church has some false converts or not true believers. They might be among the assembly for evil purposes, but they will be exposed when it becomes evident that they were not true believers because they didn't bare good fruit.

The parable is an observation, demonstrating that false converts won't fool God, He will cast them into the lake of fire. You Arminians falsely claim that a born again believer can be cast into the lake of fire, while the truth is, only false converts will be.

John 3:24 says "He abides in us by the Spirit He has given us" So again, false professors of faith of false Christians or goats or whatever you want to call them are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit so they never abide in Him. They just pay lip service as false Christians, but He is not in them and they don't abide in Him.

I know Arminian theology teaches you that we can abide sometimes and then go back to serving Satan and then go back and abide in The Lord. But that theology makes Jesus look like a fool, who is unaware of the persons infidelity. Do you believe that an adulterer can abide in Christ while whoring around with Devils.

The Bible says, "they went out from us, because they were never truly of us". Only truly converted people can abide in Him. The Judas Iscariot types, appear to be believers but they will all be exposed and cast into the lake of fire.

 

[JLB]

John 15:1-6 was spoken in parabolic language, but you took it literally and that's why you're so confused about it's meaning. "Every branch in Me" are the professing believers AKA the Church, now I'm sure you have heard that the Church has some false converts or not true believers. They might be among the assembly for evil purposes, but they will be exposed when it becomes evident that they were not true believers because they didn't bare good fruit.

The parable is an observation, demonstrating that false converts won't fool God, He will cast them into the lake of fire. You Arminians falsely claim that a born again believer can be cast into the lake of fire, while the truth is, only false converts will be.

John 3:24 says "He abides in us by the Spirit He has given us" So again, false professors of faith of false Christians or goats or whatever you want to call them are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit so they never abide in Him. They just pay lip service as false Christians, but He is not in them and they don't abide in Him.

I know Arminian theology teaches you that we can abide sometimes and then go back to serving Satan and then go back and abide in The Lord. But that theology makes Jesus look like a fool, who is unaware of the persons infidelity. Do you believe that an adulterer can abide in Christ while whoring around with Devils.

The Bible says, "they went out from us, because they were never truly of us". Only truly converted people can abide in Him. The Judas Iscariot types, appear to be believers but they will all be exposed and cast into the lake of fire.

These are the words of Jesus Christ.

Again, this same John plainly and clearly teaches us how to remain in Christ.

Here is how this same Apostle John instructs us to remain in Christ -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Jesus then explains the parabolic language with this literal statement of explanation.

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Plainly this refers to "ANYONE" who does not remain in Christ.





JLB

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you for seeing the point I was making... A false convert was never in Christ.

Now that we have that point out of the way, there is no need to bring it up again since we both agree,


My point that I am making is about people who are "in Christ", and then they are no longer in Christ, having been removed from Christ.


Let's look at some context -


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

These people were in Christ then removed from Christ by God the Father who Jesus describes as the Vinedresser.

• “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit;

Those who remain in Christ will bear much fruit, however the point is to remain in Christ. As I have shown.



Here is how this same Apostle John instructs us to remain in Christ -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

The contextual teaching here is about those who are in Christ.

No mention of false converts. Only those who are in Christ.




JLB

This passage talks about bearing fruit.

Not about keeping oneself saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

These are the words of Jesus Christ.

Again, this same John plainly and clearly teaches us how to remain in Christ.

Here is how this same Apostle John instructs us to remain in Christ -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Jesus then explains the parabolic language with this literal statement of explanation.

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Plainly this refers to "ANYONE" who does not remain in Christ.





JLB

A child of God keeps his commands (though not perfectly) He cannot live in sin, because he has been born of God (1 John 3 I believe)

This is a descriptive passage not a prescriptive

 

[Eternally Grateful]

John 15:1-6 was spoken in parabolic language, but you took it literally and that's why you're so confused about it's meaning. "Every branch in Me" are the professing believers AKA the Church, now I'm sure you have heard that the Church has some false converts or not true believers. They might be among the assembly for evil purposes, but they will be exposed when it becomes evident that they were not true believers because they didn't bare good fruit.

The parable is an observation, demonstrating that false converts won't fool God, He will cast them into the lake of fire. You Arminians falsely claim that a born again believer can be cast into the lake of fire, while the truth is, only false converts will be.

John 3:24 says "He abides in us by the Spirit He has given us" So again, false professors of faith of false Christians or goats or whatever you want to call them are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit so they never abide in Him. They just pay lip service as false Christians, but He is not in them and they don't abide in Him.

I know Arminian theology teaches you that we can abide sometimes and then go back to serving Satan and then go back and abide in The Lord. But that theology makes Jesus look like a fool, who is unaware of the persons infidelity. Do you believe that an adulterer can abide in Christ while whoring around with Devils.

The Bible says, "they went out from us, because they were never truly of us". Only truly converted people can abide in Him. The Judas Iscariot types, appear to be believers but they will all be exposed and cast into the lake of fire.

Good God. John 15 is not about false converts, it’s about producing fruit. People who do not produce fruit he lifts up (chastens) or prunes (cuts some bad parts off) so they produce fruit. If they have stopped being of any help o God, he takes the home

its sad we would twist the word of God to help our belief come true

 

[Christian Soldier]

I have not heard the gospel from you. Once again all I have heard is you attack everyone and call them arminian.

I agree, the gospel message should not be perverted. And we should not be follower of men but followers of God..

The problem with following God are the 45,000 different denominational views about what it means to follow God. You can't simply claim that you follow God when all the evidence shows you don't follow the God of the bible. You have done what all those 45,000 denominations did, you all reject Gods Word and insert your word over His.

If everyone accepted Gods Word as it is, we would have One Church, and not 45,000 opposing each other as we see happening right here.
Everyone claims their interpretation of Gods word is the only correct one, that's why the Church is the laughing stock of the world. The world looks at Christians slandering each other and all they see are hypocrites and that does untold damage to the Gospel of the Lord. It turns the world off, but because of pride Christians don't care about honoring God, it's all about their pride.

Everything you know about the Bible was taught to you by men, so stop pretending that you formed your own theology. Given that we all rely on men to teach us, it's really a question about ones Shepherd. As sheep we all rely on our Shepherd to teach us the truth of the gospel.
It's foolish for a Sheep to usurp authority from the Shepherd. God gave us Shepherds to teach us dumb Sheep about Himself, but when a Sheep runs of from the flock it is devoured by the hungry lion.

God punishes those who reject His Son, by handing them over to Satan, to serve their sin and then they fall victim to false doctrine which makes them comfortable in their sin and damns them to hell. But God appoints faithful Shepherds to teach ad lead His elect.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The problem with following God are the 45,000 different denominational views about what it means to follow God. You can't simply claim that you follow God when all the evidence shows you don't follow the God of the bible. You have done what all those 45,000 denominations did, you all reject Gods Word and insert your word over His.

Typical Roman Catholic logic.

You left the church, but sadly you kept a lot of her arguments

If everyone accepted Gods Word as it is, we would have One Church, and not 45,000 opposing each other as we see happening right here.

True.

But if you look at it, there are really not 45000 different churches, thats a ploy. There are only three gospels.

Licentiousness
Grace
Legalism

All churches fall into one of these three categories.

Everyone claims their interpretation of Gods word is the only correct one, that's why the Church is the laughing stock of the world. The world looks at Christians slandering each other and all they see are hypocrites and that does untold damage to the Gospel of the Lord. It turns the world off, but because of pride Christians don't care about honoring God, it's all about their pride.

The church is the laughing stock because it has th most arrogant, prideful people claiming to be like God and trying to make everyone believe and act like they do. As if they are something special.

Then again, Thats how satan works, He did it to the jews, and he did it with the church

Everything you know about the Bible was taught to you by men,

Actally, I grew up a baptist. And most of the stuff I was taught I now reject. Because I put aside my pride, and my arrogance. And started to actually study the word for myself.

so stop pretending that you formed your own theology.

I never said i did Stop your arrogant attack on a person you do not even know..

Given that we all rely on men to teach us, it's really a question about ones Shepherd. As sheep we all rely on our Shepherd to teach us the truth of the gospel.
It's foolish for a Sheep to usurp authority from the Shepherd. God gave us Shepherds to teach us dumb Sheep about Himself, but when a Sheep runs of from the flock it is devoured by the hungry lion.

We all should test every spirit, If your putting your eternity in the hands of any man, you are but of most pitiful. Your faith is in them, and the fact they got it right. And your eternal destiny is based on if that man got it right or not

let me tell you. Eternity is far too long to make that mistake.

God punishes those who reject His Son, by handing them over to Satan, to serve their sin and then they fall victim to false doctrine which makes them comfortable in their sin and damns them to hell. But God appoints faithful Shepherds to teach ad lead His elect.

They can;t all be right, So many shepherds claim they are leading people to God when in reality they are leading them right to hell