Video: Preacher Deception Faith Alone No Works?

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you sister... People are so very often complaining about Catholics, but I have seen no groups as a whole serving God better.

What?????

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's not easy to find a good church.
I keep away from independent churches.
I think the Catholic Church is a good church although they do teach some incorrect doctrine.

They are the most legalistic church in the world. They are modern day jews.

Now granted, if I was going to try to earn my salvation, I would be catholic. They have the most ways, and just in case they did nto do enough while they are alive, they have purgatory.

But they are leading people to hell. Just like the jews were

I also like the Assembly of God church if you can get over their insistence on speaking in tongues.
The Nazarene is also good....I don't think they teach sinless perfection anymore - they used to.

Each church will have a problem.
The perfect one doesn't exist.

Now this I agree, there is no perfect church, but we have to find one that leads people to heaven.. otherwise, it is no church at all

Let's hang on to God, read the bible with an open mind like you said, and have fellowship in some manner.

But having a home church IS important...

(Presbyterians are calvinist )

Can you do this? Read with an open mind? I would look forward to this

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well PS95, I've told posters that we're discussing AFTER SALVATION till I'm blue in the face....
makes no difference.

They mean that they don't believe works are necessary at all....
not even after salvation.

The word WORKS is a dirty word to some Christians.
They want Jesus to do all the work and they JUST HAVE FAITH.....

Well, that's not what the NT teaches and Jesus didn't die on that cross so we could spread misinformation.

Abraham and Isaac ---- right. But we get tested all the time.

I don't believe one thing has to do with another.
Abraham was justified the moment he listened to God and obeyed Him and left Ur.

He also OBEYED God when he climbed Mt. Hebron with his son, ready to sacrifice him.

Those who speak as you've posted cheapen what Abraham did and cheapen Jesus' sacrifice and also all of Christian ideals.

Once again

Works are not required.

they are a bypriduct. They will happen

when you use the word required. You take the power of God away, and insert the power of self. And you have a bunch of foolish people who are being good only because they are trying to stay saved, not because they appreciate what God has done for them

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is also true. I get sick of it.

Amen

I also get sick of works as required to keep oneself saved, taking focus off God and putting it on the believer.

Paul hated it also. He wrote half the NY tryign to defeat it. It’s sad here almost 2000 years later. it is still as powerful an argument as it was in Pauls day

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The term FAITH ALONE is found in the bible.
Here it is:

James 2:24
24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Please read it.
It states that man is NOT justified by faith alone.

Faith by God's grace saves us.
But FAITH ALONE will not keep us saved.

It requires action on our part....
the action is to obey God.

John 3:36
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

It states that if we believe in the Son we have eternal life....
but IF we do NOT OBEY the Son the wrath of God aides on us.

No

it says that WHOEVER believes is not condemned, they will NEVER DIE, and they will LIVE FOREVER

it says WHOEVER does not believe is condemned already, Or whoever does not obey (the gospel) is condemned already and the wrath of God abides.

it does not say if we believe, but then if we disobay.

 

[amadeus]

What?????

In my experience... I am not speaking for anyone else.

 

[AW Bowman]

Again what is the motivation

a work is a work is a work. Paul said in romans 4 as well as eph 2. It is something in which you can boast of. What about works enables us to boast?

I think doing the works of Christ could very well lead on to boast. See Matt 7;21-23. A Christian who love God and His Son will exercise self control and forgo boasting (pridefully) about what was accomplished through him. Expressed pride in oneself often leads to personal and even spiritual disaster. Best to remain humble - agreed?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think doing the works of Christ could very well lead on to boast. See Matt 7;21-23. A Christian who love God and His Son will exercise self control and forgo boasting (pridefully) about what was accomplished through him. Expressed pride in oneself often leads to personal and even spiritual disaster. Best to remain humble - agreed?

See it this way

a person who works hard for a reward will boast of that work, they earned it. They did all the hard work

a person who works hard to save himself will boast of it. They saved themselves

A person who became like the tax collector will boast in christ. Because they did not work for it. All they did was call out to God to show mercy on them a sinner. God gets all the credit.

remember, Salvation is the focus here. Who or what saved us, or do we save ourselves by our works.

 

[AW Bowman]

See it this way

LOL I think we are in agreement.

 

[Rockerduck]

James is Not tryign to define works

He is tryign to define faith.

What does it PROFIT a person if he says he has faith but has no works, CAN THIS FAITH SAVE HIM.

its not about works, its about faith

and he is telling his readers to test their own faith - I will show you my faith by my works, You prove to me your faith without your works

Abraham was considered righteous decades before he offered his son.. He was completely saved before his son was even born. His works proved to abraham he was saved.

James did not tell us to be fruit inspectors to determin who is saved or not. Thats Gods job. Not ours

Paul is for the Gentiles. James is for the Jews.

2 Timothy 1:9 - who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul is for the Gentiles. James is for the Jews.

2 Timothy 1:9 - who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Paul taught religious jews trying to add works to salvation. he also caught pagan gentiles who also believed we are saved by what we do. Not by What God did

I agree, James is for Jews But we can apply his words to ourselves also.

 

[Wynona]

Again, Paul answers this question.

for it is by GRACE we have been saved (A completed action) through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 Not of works lest anyone should boast (take credit for saving themselves by their works)


10 For we (those who are saved by Grace alone) are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Those who are saved by Grace alone are created anew. Created for good works. it is their new nature. Unlike the old nature which wanted nothing to do with Gods will. Our new nature is changed, it comes naturally.

James is literally telling those who are hearers and not doers. If you claim you have faith, But do not have the works paul said YOU WILL HAVE, can that faith save you? The answer is no. Why? it is no faith at all, it is what James called a dead faith. No power to saved.

They did not do works because they were not created into a new creature. They still acted like themselves. Because they are not saved.

Ive said several times that were not saved by works and that I agree with Ephesians 2:8-10.

Good works ought to be encouraged and I don't think they are automatic because we have to abide in Christ to bear any fruit.

 

[GodsGrace]

I am not saying this and I do not use words that imply this. I simply said we are saved by grace through faith and that saving faith produces good works as a result of us being saved.

Good works do not save, do not keep us, nor maintain our salvation. They are simply what we are commanded to do and we have been empowered by god to do them as a result of us being eternally saved.

Sin is no longer the issue. when a person receives Christ by grave through faith-ALL sins, past present and future have been removed from their account.

They are not bound over to teh church. As Paul called them, they are a ministry of death!

The law was given as a school master until faith came as Paul wrote in Ephesians.

But they do not save.

Works do not save.
Only Faith saves.

We're not speaking here of salvation...I wasted posts on this with another member.
We're speaking of persons that ARE ALREADY saved.

So let's get that out of the way.

Could we use scripture....since I think I can assume you're basing your ideas on scripture....

This is what Paul said about the law:
He said this about the commandment,
Romans 7:12
12So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be!


Where, in the above verses, does it state that a commandment is a ministry of death?
It states exactly the opposite.

See
Matthew 5:19-20 JESUS said:
19Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


I think we're getting THE LAW, law (of Chrsit) and commandments all mixed up without differentiating between them.

God does not suggest.
We MUST obey His commandments.
AFTER we're saved.

The unsaved need not obey God....they're already lost.

 

[GodsGrace]

And here she is..

And here you are.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ive said several times that were not saved by works and that I agree with Ephesians 2:8-10.

Good works ought to be encouraged and I don't think they are automatic because we have to abide in Christ to bear any fruit.

Amen!
If they were automatic it would not be necessary for Paul to admonish good behavior in us in all of his letters.

The Holy Spirit is our helper....
but He will never force us to obey God.

 

[GodsGrace]

They are the most legalistic church in the world. They are modern day jews.

Now granted, if I was going to try to earn my salvation, I would be catholic. They have the most ways, and just in case they did nto do enough while they are alive, they have purgatory.

But they are leading people to hell. Just like the jews were

Now this I agree, there is no perfect church, but we have to find one that leads people to heaven.. otherwise, it is no church at all

Can you do this? Read with an open mind? I would look forward to this

The CC leads people to hell?

You say funny things EG,,,,without ever backing them up.

And you think all the Jews were going straight to hell?
I have no comment.

 

[GodsGrace]

No

it says that WHOEVER believes is not condemned, they will NEVER DIE, and they will LIVE FOREVER

it says WHOEVER does not believe is condemned already, Or whoever does not obey (the gospel) is condemned already and the wrath of God abides.

it does not say if we believe, but then if we disobay.

Right.
OSAS.
Just like I thought after a few posts of yours.

Persons that believe in OSAS are terrified that they might be sinning....
so they twist the NT to say what they THINK it says.

But, alas, again, you offer no verses.
So, nothing to discuss.

 

[Wynona]

See it this way

a person who works hard for a reward will boast of that work, they earned it. They did all the hard work

a person who works hard to save himself will boast of it. They saved themselves

A person who became like the tax collector will boast in christ. Because they did not work for it. All they did was call out to God to show mercy on them a sinner. God gets all the credit.

remember, Salvation is the focus here. Who or what saved us, or do we save ourselves by our works.

Avoiding works to only boast in God is false humility. God gave us the faith and he gave us the grace that enables us to do works for His glory. No boasting in ourselves. We are only giving what we owe God ---our bodies as living sacrifices and instruments of righteousness. Doing good works is what He commands and we can only do them by abiding in Christ.

I know people don't read Scriptures I post but I still would welcome folks to read this passage from the Lord out loud because faith comes through hearing. Im not sure how OSAS can square with this...

John 15​

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King James Version​

​

​

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 *If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned*.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 *If ye keep my commandments*, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The CC leads people to hell?

You say funny things EG,,,,without ever backing them up.

And you think all the Jews were going straight to hell?
I have no comment.

1. did I say ALL jews are going to hell? Of course not. So here you are bearing false witness
2. Backing them up? I think I did quite well. Like the jews, who wanted to add works of the law to the Gospel and Paul said they are to be anathema for teaching a different gospel. The Catholic Church teaches we add works of the church (they call them sacraments - which is literally a again term) added to grace (grace plus works) which is no different than the different Gospel the jews taught.

If the jew adding works was to be anathema, The Catholic Church just gets a pass? Why? Becaus you said so?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Right.
OSAS.
Just like I thought after a few posts of yours.

Well yeah, When God says you will NEVER DIE.. that OSAS, WHen God says you will LIVE FOREVER, well yeah, thats OSAS

do you think God lied?

Persons that believe in OSAS are terrified that they might be sinning....

No. I am not terrified at all. I know I am a sinner, But I keep focused on God and do not let my sin get me down.

Now A person who believes is NOSAS should not only be terrified but horrified that they might be sinning, because they have no hope.. except in self.. And good luck with that

so they twist the NT to say what they THINK it says.

No we actually take the NT as what it says God gives

eternal life, Will never die, Will never hunger or thirst, Will be raised Ont he last day, Has passed from death to life. Will not be judged, Is spared from the wrath of God.

We have tghe peace that surpasses all understanding.

But, alas, again, you offer no verses.
So, nothing to discuss.

Yawn..