Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
We are saved by faith alone. We have to do no work in order to be saved. Works follow one being saved and are a result or by-product of one being saved, but have no cause in one getting saved.
Video: Preacher Deception Faith Alone No Works?
- Thread starter Wynona
- Start date
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I agree that we do no works in order to be saved and that they are a result of salvation.
The term "faith alone" is not found in Scripture and I have seen this used to justify works-less faith, which is really not faith at all.
II hope people watch the video. Arguing is something I personally need to detach from, since no one sees me as authoritative on doctrine nor should they.
I hope we all search Scripture and aren't misled by tradition or empty philosophy. I hate how strongly I was misled about works and their importance but I think there is deep resistance to all works today, even the ones Christ followers are supposed to be zealous for. I love to talk about it. But being quarrelsome can do more harm than good.
Ill see if others want to chime in.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
But Scripture does show it is by faith alone apart from anything else.
What you are doing is not arguing against Scriptural truth, but what some have done to abuse Scripture.
I think Ive said what I wanted on that front. At the moment Im tempted to be quarrelsome so I need to zip it. Hopefully others can engage better on this.
Without God's Word, I wouldve ruined my life a long time ago.
Maybe you don't Ronald Nolette.
You didn't even know that the words FAITH ALONE are found in the NT.
With a negative connotation, of course.
Which the OP brought to your attention and to which you do not have a good response.
Hey Amadeus
Nice to see you again!
I'm back.
Maybe I'll stay but sometimes this tires me.
We'll see.
Thank you! Are you new? If so, Welcome and greetings from the U.S! If not good to see you!
Welcome back dear Sister in Christ...Hey Amadeus
Nice to see you again!
I'm back.
Maybe I'll stay but sometimes this tires me.
We'll see.
It tires me a whole lot. I don't read most of the threads and of the threads in which I do read I respond only to a very few posts. Too much arguing and repeating the same old thing over and over again.
Agreed 100%
I mean, don't we all read the same bible?
Maybe those Catholics have something going for them....!
God bless you Amadeus...
You're one of the best!
Thank you sister... People are so very often complaining about Catholics, but I have seen no groups as a whole serving God better.
PS95
Active Member
Hi Wynona,
I know what you are trying to say. this may help.
When someone says, saved "by faith alone", it can sound like they are ignoring James.
I agree with you, but 9 times out of 10 with people who say that phrase-- when asked further, they know full well that works come as a result of true faith. They just hesitate to say it as---" faith plus works saves"-- because they don't want to lead anyone into thinking that they must do works TO BE saved to begin with. Make sense? Works come after accepting the free gift-- Paul was also accused of teaching grace without works. I have to find where that is.. Anyone know where I mean?
James was just saying that it's not true faith if it stays ALONE. IOW- if you say you have faith, and then don't help someone in need. What kind of faith is that? It's a dead faith- no love. YES! Jewish converts back then obvioulsy were claiming faith and denying it by being greedy and unloving toward others. that is the context. Also, know that James speaks to Abraham's/Isaac sacrifice story, and that occured many many years after Abraham was deemed righteous for believing God. It was a test. many yrs later of his faith. Same is true today. That's what James was saying.
Paul taught the same as james.. true faith results in good works that God has prepared for us.
True faith walks in love and our works flow from the love in us. That love is because we love Him because he first loved us!
I know I didn't type that very clearly, so I hope you can make sense of it!!
It does. I know now that I tend to take out my frustration with past false teachings in church and other Christian settings by arguing about the importance of obedience and how we need to affirm works constantly like Paul told Timothy to do.
This frustration is another reason I don't feel qualified to teach or even argue too much on salvation doctrine. Not that being lied to shouldn't make me angry. It's just not going to be fruitful.
I have looked for churches to teach biblical truth since I was 14. Im 29 now. Ive been to Presbyterian, Baptist, and Pentecostal churches. None of them taught me close to what I learned by reading the Bible with an open mind in context.
The video I lead with is by a guy who backs up every statement with Scripture and who mainly teaches with direct Scripture quotes. No commentary. No nonsense. I really appreciate it because Id rather someone tell me an uncomfortable truth than a comforting lie.
Why did the churches I tried soften and leave out so many important things? The fear of the Lord saved my marriage and blessed my walk with Christ---why do so many dismiss this today?
It's not easy to find a good church.
I keep away from independent churches.
I think the Catholic Church is a good church although they do teach some incorrect doctrine.
I also like the Assembly of God church if you can get over their insistence on speaking in tongues.
The Nazarene is also good....I don't think they teach sinless perfection anymore - they used to.
Each church will have a problem.
The perfect one doesn't exist.
Let's hang on to God, read the bible with an open mind like you said, and have fellowship in some manner.
But having a home church IS important...
(Presbyterians are calvinist )
Well PS95, I've told posters that we're discussing AFTER SALVATION till I'm blue in the face....
makes no difference.
They mean that they don't believe works are necessary at all....
not even after salvation.
The word WORKS is a dirty word to some Christians.
They want Jesus to do all the work and they JUST HAVE FAITH.....
Well, that's not what the NT teaches and Jesus didn't die on that cross so we could spread misinformation.
Abraham and Isaac ---- right. But we get tested all the time.
I don't believe one thing has to do with another.
Abraham was justified the moment he listened to God and obeyed Him and left Ur.
He also OBEYED God when he climbed Mt. Hebron with his son, ready to sacrifice him.
Those who speak as you've posted cheapen what Abraham did and cheapen Jesus' sacrifice and also all of Christian ideals.
I like aspects of each denomination you mentioned. Catholics, I see as outdoing most in service and charity. I like speaking in tongues, though I doubt any church does it the way described in 1st Corinthians. They usually have everyone do it at once. Sinless perfection, I actually support as a goal we can and should go for. It may take practice and years but I believe Jesus can help us stop sinning completely when we abide in Him and are willing to suffer for His name.
I continue to look for a church, but I won't go to one that my husband doesn't respect. I see submitting to him in this area as the higher principle. Plus, I trust his judgement. He is a better person than me.
This is also true. I get sick of it.
I am encouraged though. I did find an awesome church an hour away. Ive visited but my husband will go with me likely tomorrow.
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