As I’ve mentioned to you previously, I seldom read or respond to long posts. Answering a tome with a tome isn’t what I’m here for. Even the prospect of it is wearying to me.
O, yes.
The “Return” of Christ: What Does it Mean?
- Thread starter Matthias
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As I’ve mentioned to you previously, I seldom read or respond to long posts. Answering a tome with a tome isn’t what I’m here for. Even the prospect of it is wearying to me.
O, yes.
PS95
Well-Known Member
Do you, Jane?
Romans 6 matters. Picking 1.5 verses out of 23 verses, while ignoring the context is your big picture.
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Well, Jesus is invisible, inaudible and intangible to you as such.
However, He is highly visible, audible and tangible to you... in each of your brothers and sisters.
The "sheep on the right" in Matthew 25 were saved because they were willing to see the "invisible Jesus" in their visible fellows.
--- "Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? And when did we see You sick or in prison and come to You?"
--- "Truly I say to you, as you have done it for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you have done it for Me."
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PS95
Well-Known Member
That's beautiful, and yes it's what we try to do as believers. but, we also bring them spiritual food.. the true gospel of our Lord Jesus!!
After all, food without His truth is just tomorrow's waste.
I hear the beating of the drums, the tearing of the insignia, the yielding threads, the breaking sword, ringing in my ears.
Origen. He died c. AD 253. Dead and buried, but his influence lives on.
I feel a little like General Patton talking about the Carthaginians. (The General, however, believed in reincarnation. I don’t.)
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
I agree with the importance of spiritual food.
In Mathew 25 Jesus used for his story examples of material needs.
He didn't praised the sheep on the right for having preached, nor rejected the goats on his left for not having preached.
James understood that and let us know that "true religion" is about taking care of the poor widows and fatherless (James 1:27)
Material help, given with genuine love, is a powerful testimony of Christ to those who receive it, and a strong spiritual confirmation from God to those who give it.
If we don't want to "spiritualize" the Bible too much, the best antidote, I guess, is to keep in contact with the daily material needs of our neighbors.
He wasn’t invisible, inaudible and intangible between his bodily resurrection and his bodily ascension into heaven. His disciples attest to that. That attestation is what I stand on. I’m constrained by the history of primitive 1st century Christianity.
By spiritualizing, we can make scripture say just about anything that we want it to.
PS95
Well-Known Member
PS95
Well-Known Member
Ok so what is your point? Many times I have had the opportunity to help someone without the opportunity to share Jesus' love in words too. But faith comes by hearing, so I don't see a problem with doing both! Do you?
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
One of the big problem of Gnostics... perhaps their worst, is that they regarded matter as filthy, impure, to the point of rejecting their bodies, and those of others.
I regard matter as wonderful.
I am a doctor (not practicing now). I admire bodies. I am interested in physical pain, nausea and vomiting, seizures, sweating, wasting syndrome, fever, and the process of death. I love the body being repaired, healed. I love to see people singing and dancing and swimming.
It's great that you do weight lifting and take care of your health. :)
We baha'is believe in the importance of a good nutrition, exercise, medical care. Our bodies are Temple of the Holy Spirit.
But one thing is to praise God for our bodies, to use them for his glory, and another thing to cling to them.
We are getting old, Mathias. We will lose some faculties, die and be buried. And that's perfectly fine.
God gives. God takes away and give to others. Praised be the Name of God!
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Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
No. Both things done at the same time are a wonderful and powerful mix. I would say, two sides of the same coin.
Congratulations, PS95!
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Baha'i is behind the eight ball if they think Christ has already come and no further.
Christ returns and more return with Him!
Let us come together in the knowledge that God sends whom He will, all day long.
Christ returns and more return with Him!
Let us come together in the knowledge that God sends whom He will, all day long.
PS95
Well-Known Member
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
I agree, but the peril of not spiritualizing is also big… leaving out sense and purpose. That’s why we must pray for wisdom and consider reason a precious gift.
Let me share with you an extract from bahai Sacred Writings
"If religion were contrary to logical reason
then it would cease to be a religion and be merely a tradition.
Religion and science are the two wings upon which
man's intelligence can soar into the heights,
with which the human soul can progress.
It is not possible to fly with one wing alone!
Should a man try to fly with the wing of religion alone
he would quickly fall into the quagmire of superstition,
whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would… fall into the despairing slough of materialism.”
Have you read “Jesus and the Constraints of History”? (A revised version of The Bampton Lectures, 1980, A.E. Harvey)
What would happen if someone like me (my conscience wouldn’t allow me to do it, nor to have it done) were to get his or her hands on a copy of Baha’i writings and spiritualized them, producing my theology out of the Baha’i writings? Would it persuade you @Pancho Frijoles?
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
Probably yes, Matthias.
If I consider it to be more rational, and it helps me love better, probably it would.
There are a couple of teachings in the Bahai Faith which I do not take literally although most Baha’is do.
Pancho Frijoles
Active Member
No, I haven't.
I'm just taking a look at the Amazon webpage and the book is very expensive (about USD 120)!
I suppose there are very few available or no new edition.
Tell me about it, please.
You’re deeply committed to spiritualizing.
The problem with the search for “hidden meaning” is that it leads to finding “hidden meaning,” and the standard is what we want to see.
It’s not a sound biblical hermeneutic.
”Do not spiritualize the text
To spiritualize (or allegorize) is to go beyond the plain meaning of the passage in search of a deeper or hidden meaning. The danger with this method is that there are no checks for fanciful interpretation. The only standard becomes the mind of the interpreter. Stick to the intended meaning of the text.”
(Mike Vlatch, “Errors to Avoid When Interpreting the Bible”)
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