The social gospel?

[Episkopos]

OK Teacher is back....and there's a lot of silly things written on the blackboard.

Ok class. Let's get a few things straight.
Many of you are flunking out of truth 101. So let's go over things again.

The cross is not about forgiveness. Why? God has always been merciful...and He still is. :) A simple study of the OT will show that God has always been merciful. As homework, do a study about this

Jesus also forgave people in His ministry before the cross... He forgave the paralytic before healing him AND forgave the Romans who were crucifying Him.

The cross is about sanctification...atonement unto holiness. That's what was lacking. Jesus didn't go around sanctifying people. No, He went around forgiving people because they had no understanding or power to do anything holy.

So Jesus paid for us having the grace to walk in His holiness. The cross puts sin to death...no need to forgive. Dead is dead.

I've already explained how the bible testifies of the sacrifice of Jesus as freedom from sin...in post #686.

For all the misbehaving I see took place in my absence I hope to see a few apples on my desk in the morning.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

It is an unruly class that I try to speak to. :)

I am fine with it all, people state their opinions, right or wrong, that's life.

 

[Lizbeth]

Reader,

What happens if you try to behave like Jesus, and you are water baptized at least 3 times , and you take communion 2x a day, and you read your bible a lot, you go to church every Sunday.... and you love your neighbor as yourself your whole life , yet you are never born again, and die. ???

A.) Hell.

Why?
Its because God's Salvation, is not based on how you behave AFTER you receive it., or before you receive it.... Its only based on Jesus whose blood and death makes you accepted by God and keeps you accepted by God, as otherwise, the Cross would be a FAILURE.
Its not.
Jesus didn't fail.,,. The Cross of Christ didn't fail.... and Jesus THE Christ, THE LORD... rose from the Dead to prove His Eternal Success.

Now...Here is the thing about doing good works.
An unbeliever, can do the same good works, and some do more then most Christians.
So, reader, you were saved by God, only because you Gave God your Faith in Christ, and not your works.. as all you brought to God on your beautiful day of Salvation.... was "A lifetime of SIN and FAITH in Christ"....

Listen.... God forgave your sin and accepted your faith in Christ and Took you, forever.
You're His because ONLY the Blood and Death of Jesus has made this possible. John 14:6

Now, before you were saved, you could give to the poor. You could love people, and try to do good works. You could do all the same works that a Christian can do, and yet, the works didnt save you........nor will they keep a Christian saved who does them.
Works are just works........they dont increase in value, once you are born again., they are just works............and nothing more, down here.

See, an UNBELIEVER can see someone holding a sign that says.....>"HOMELESS" and they can roll down their window and hand them $20 dollars USD.
And you come along later with your "JESUS" Car Tag.... and do the same.......There is NO DIFFERENCE in that WORK.............its just a deed.........and nothing more.
So, dont present to God an idea that is broken faith... that tries to prove to God that your works are why God would have you and keep you, as if you do that... you insult Jesus's blood and death that is literally the only reason God will have you and keep you.

Jesus said to His disciples..."you know the way to where I am going".....that way is the narrow way which leads to life......which is the way of the cross.....which is like Jesus in Gethsemane saying to the Father, "not my will but Thy will be done". So it means doing the Father's will........as Jesus said only those who do the will of His Father will enter the kingdom of heaven. Obeying His commands, following the leading of His Spirit. That is the journey and pilgrimage we are on, the race we are running. We need to be living according to God's will, not going our own way like lost sheep. We once were lost sheep but now are found, which means we are not going our own way any more, but HIS way, following the Shepherd of our souls.

 

[Nancy]

@Episkopos , am I reading all this wrong? I'm pretty sure you know the cross is about forgiveness of sins, and this is blown out of proportion but, then again I am not sure. Please state this truth so we do not have to deal with all the back and forth brothers? Is it that we first encounter the cross for forgiveness and then move on to holiness?
I might have spoken out of turn here but I KNOW you believe the cross is all about forgiveness, no?

 

[Lizbeth]

OK Teacher is back....and there's a lot of silly things written on the blackboard.

Ok class. Let's get a few things straight.
Many of you are flunking out of truth 101. So let's go over things again.

The cross is not about forgiveness. Why? God has always been merciful...and He still is. :) A simple study of the OT will show that God has always been merciful. As homework, do a study about this

Jesus also forgave people in His ministry before the cross... He forgave the paralytic before healing him AND forgave the Romans who were crucifying Him.

The cross is about sanctification...atonement unto holiness. That's what was lacking. Jesus didn't go around sanctifying people. No, He went around forgiving people because they had no understanding or power to do anything holy.

So Jesus paid for us having the grace to walk in His holiness. The cross puts sin to death...no need to forgive. Dead is dead.

I've already explained how the bible testifies of the sacrifice of Jesus as freedom from sin...in post #686.

For all the misbehaving I see took place in my absence I hope to see a few apples on my desk in the morning.

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, wasn't He?

But there was a time when God was overlooking sin (in that the time for revealing to men the remedy for it hadn't yet come)........ but now He calls all men everywhere to repent.

God forgives.........and He also judges, doesn't He? Should we ignore that and pretend He doesn't?

Wages of sin is death.....beginning with Adam and Eve. The flood upon the wicked in Noah's day. Sodom and Gomorrah. Egypt/Pharaoh was judged, while God's people were spared. The northern tribes of Israel were judged and scattered. Eventually Jerusalem and Judah were judged and taken captive to Babylon. In 70 AD there was another outpouring of God's wrath upon Jerusalem/Israel. And what happened to the Roman Empire after that? Just look around at world history and the world today.......because the whole world lies under the wrath of God.........does even a sparrow fall to the ground apart from the Lord?

 

[Hepzibah]

@marks "I've found that these surges of growth do in fact seem to be followed by ups and downs of intense slogging. I remain encouraged though knowing that this is real healing.

Yes, it is really encouraging to see progress for myself. One thing that made a huge difference for me was finding out that trauma responses will have driven people away from me. That was a huge lightbulb, though I had previously accepted it as satanic attack for speaking the truth about sanctification, which the sleeping church of today repels. Other things that made me beat myself up over, ceased and I gained compassion for myself that I had never known before.

I've known sublimation in the past, I've known temporary releases, but this is I believe the real deal, real healing, which encourages me to just keep my hand to the plow, wait, and wait, and keep waiting, as my change oh so slowly comes, in between those surges.

I have read that forgetting the progress made is very typical so I guess keeping a journal would help there. I will be happy to find out that the progress can be very much speeded up by the Lord though

I too am very greatful for internet sources, I've learned to much!

Oh so much! I am overwhelmed by the amount of it and have done the thing I was warned against, and am reading too much.

I've accepted that without this sometimes horrific interventions in my life, I'd not have come to know Him. He had to near destroy me so I'd look to Him. He wounds, and He binds up. Because He loves me.

The wounds have been a great temptation for me to give up but I am able to see them as necessary, like when a broken arm has sometimes to be rebroken for healing.

I first learned about this ministering in an Alheimer's ward at a local assisted living home. The Christians in there, they wouldn't know where they were, or why they were there, but they remembered "Old Rugged Cross", every word, and their eyes would light up, and they would quote with me as I quoted Scripture, and I could see, the mind can be nearly gone, the spirit lives in Christ.

Amen!

A.W. Tozer, Andrew Murray, these were a couple who helped me focus in more. Leo Tolstoy, "Walk in the Light while there is Light", It's a short story fiction, but it moves me deeply whenever I read it, knowing the time is short. I don't want to spoil the story if you haven't read it.

Much love!

Well I have read it - just now and am very moved by it so many thanks for that. It is an incredible book. So much to think about and regrets that I had not read it before having my children. I was fooled into the myth of giving them more things than I had had, as an improvement. The book illustrated how many lies I had believed, but gradually gained the truth on much of it.

It also resonated what I have been reading recently about with the Anabaptists/Mennonites as the experiences in my last three churches has made me think that none of modern day churches are a safe place at least till I have been able to stop being triggered but maybe never . The A's and M's live like the Christians in Tolstoy's book well at least they have historically and maybe still do.

 

[Behold]

So it means doing the Father's will...

Here is the Father's Will, so that we can enter Heaven, and become a born again Christian.

"All that believe in Jesus, shall be saved"
"All that call on the name of the Lord, shall be saved"

"The will of God is that you believe in Jesus, whom God sent".

And after a person has become a Christian ,then the person can get busy... doing all those works and carrying that Cross, and denying yourself..

The problem, that many have, is that they connect those as How to be saved, instead of understanding that the works part of Christianity, is not the part that God accepts to cause you to become a Christian, or to Remain A Born Again Christian.

The WORKS, the LIFESTYLE, the Discipleship, ... we do this because we have been born again... ALREADY.

We dont do the works to try to BECOME the Christian, or to try to REMAIN a Christian.

We do the works because they are what happens because we are already a Christian.

 

[Behold]

OK Teacher is back...

Is it really smart to try to irritate real believers so that they respond just so your Thread(s) keep going?
It that really smart, @Episkopos ?
So we see your constant forum behavior that reflects the "real you"..

Also, You are the self proclaimed "teacher" that denies that the Cross is about Forgiveness., and posted that Jesus is : "Whipping boy".

And now..... let me show you this about the Cross and Forgiveness that is related to the Blood of Jesus.
I'll use Matthew, as you are not familiar with Paul's Gospel, and ive noticed over the years... that most self proclaimed Calvinists and Legalists, like you.... are very familiar with Matthew.

So, let Matthew deny your false Gospel....

Matthew 26:28 :

""" This is my BLOOD which is the new covenant that God makes with his people. This, my BLOOD is poured out for many to Forgive their sins"."..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Epi, am I reading all this wrong? I'm pretty sure you know the cross is about forgiveness and this is blown out of proportion but, then again I am not sure. Please state this truth so we do not have to deal with all the back and forth brother? Is it that we first encounter the cross for forgiveness and then move on to holiness?
I might have spoken out of turn here but I KNOW you believe the cross is all about forgiveness, no?

OK Teacher is back....and there's a lot of silly things written on the blackboard.

Ok class. Let's get a few things straight.
Many of you are flunking out of truth 101. So let's go over things again.

The cross is not about forgiveness. Why? God has always been merciful...and He still is. :) A simple study of the OT will show that God has always been merciful. As homework, do a study about this

How much more clear can it get @Nancy

I have known Epi for many years across many chatrooms, and his message is always the same. The cross is not about forgiveness. It is about making us so we can walk like christ. (Sinless) so he does nto have to forgive us.

Epi says a lot of things that are good. He makes a lot of comments that seem right to a man. But when it comes down to it. He is preaching a different gospel. Different than even most mainstream churches. In that the cross to him, is just a means to walking like Christ. Not a means to forgiveness and restoration (he denies penal substitutionary atonement) so we can learn to walk like Christ.

Thats why he gets so much flack, It is not hate. It is that people act out of trying to refute a false gospel..and think he is dangerous, like many cult leaders. And also very charismatic which draws people to himself

Now his sanctification stuff is great. But if his justification (way to eternal life) is not there. The rest is meaningless

 

[Nancy]

How much more clear can it get @Nancy

I have known Epi for many years across many chatrooms, and his message is always the same. The cross is not about forgiveness. It is about making us so we can walk like christ. (Sinless) so he does nto have to forgive us.

Epi says a lot of things that are good. He makes a lot of comments that seem right to a man. But when it comes down to it. He is preaching a different gospel. Different than even most mainstream churches. In that the cross to him, is just a means to walking like Christ. Not a means to forgiveness and restoration (he denies penal substitutionary atonement) so we can learn to talk like Christ.

Thats why he gets no flack, It is not hate. It is that people act our of trying to refute a false gospel..

Now his sanctification stuff is great. But if his justification (way to eternal life) is not there. The rest is meaningless

Thank you Eternally Grateful. I admit this is getting pretty deep and I am waiting for Epi to explain his belief that the cross was not about forgiveness because I do believe it is about that and much more, atonement, sanctification, holiness too. He can post what he believes as long as no violations. I like Epi and only want to know he is correct in this.
Thank you for your post!

 

[Behold]

Thank you Eternally Grateful. I admit this is getting pretty deep and I am waiting for Epi to explain his He can post what he believes as long as no violations.

Doesn't it violate the Cross of Christ to state that "The Cross is not about forgiveness"?

What real born again Christian would not understand this perfectly?

Does that statement not insult deeply, Jesus and His Sacrifice for your sin and mine??

Is that ok to do, as long as "its stated with a sweet tone, and seems friendly" the next time He posts it?

He's stated this many times now.. and so, now that he is "under the microscope", he'll try to back it up, and modify it.

"well, i said it 15 times, but that's not what i really mean">.

And 2 days from now, after the eyes are not on him, he'll say it again.......

What then?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

OK Teacher is back....and there's a lot of silly things written on the blackboard.

Ok class. Let's get a few things straight.
Many of you are flunking out of truth 101. So let's go over things again.

The cross is not about forgiveness. Why? God has always been merciful...and He still is. :) A simple study of the OT will show that God has always been merciful. As homework, do a study about this

Jesus also forgave people in His ministry before the cross... He forgave the paralytic before healing him AND forgave the Romans who were crucifying Him.

The cross is about sanctification...atonement unto holiness. That's what was lacking. Jesus didn't go around sanctifying people. No, He went around forgiving people because they had no understanding or power to do anything holy.

So Jesus paid for us having the grace to walk in His holiness. The cross puts sin to death...no need to forgive. Dead is dead.

I've already explained how the bible testifies of the sacrifice of Jesus as freedom from sin...in post #686.

For all the misbehaving I see took place in my absence I hope to see a few apples on my desk in the morning.

I wrote a post then deleted it. Just saying incase you saw it before I deleted it. I still don’t understand the strutting around like a peacock. It sure does make it hard because I wonder where it’s coming from. Like are you puffed up and high on yourself like others say, or are you a big jokester whose true intent is to spur people into considering what they religiously hold to for their own benefit?

Actually I’m not that offended by your comment about the cross and forgiveness. I don’t know how to put it into words but I hear people ask why did Jesus have to die? My answer has become to show the way. The way of moving from darkness into Light. He was crucified to put off that old man but that He taught of movement from Pharisees and religious leaders way of thinking (mans way of ruling even out in the world where the rich consumes the poor) …His revealing a path to …teaching, being an example of the way to the Father in putting on compassionate bowels of mercy where all the attributes are given of new ways of dealing out unto others. Maybe that doesn’t make sense. But I wouldn’t say He died so much to forgive me but more to “show” me to “reveal” a way by being The example (to follow) of that way. I say that because He showed a way never seen before, foreign and if anything a way this world says will lead straight to death, being the wrong way according to the world because it goes against all held dear of this world. So much so, that way He showed is mocked as …fictitious dreaming.

i think of Adam and Eve in the garden when they sinned and hid themselves in the darkness. God already desired mercy and not sacrifice for them to step out of the darkness into the light …it was them who choose not to believing another voice instead that God is not good. Jesus model the way of, step out of the darkness into the Light. I might get shot…I don’t agree with all of your post but I do think …if others ask me “why did Jesus have to die?” I don’t think my first answer is “forgiveness” but instead, To me…because He is was teaching, showing, modeling the better way which is an active “Living” walk He showed…not a one time word “forgiven” and nothing is taught. Even…if you be taught of God that you ought to love one another.

I just asked my husband to. “What do you think the cross is about?” Forgiveness or a way?
He said, “it is about a passage”.

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos , am I reading all this wrong? I'm pretty sure you know the cross is about forgiveness of sins, and this is blown out of proportion but, then again I am not sure. Please state this truth so we do not have to deal with all the back and forth brothers? Is it that we first encounter the cross for forgiveness and then move on to holiness?
I might have spoken out of turn here but I KNOW you believe the cross is all about forgiveness, no?

It is a very clever ploy to get Jesus to die.... for God to do what He always did...forgive people...be merciful. And by doing this to deny what Jesus really died to do...make people holy.

God has always been merciful and forgiving. God forgives people so many times...uncountable. He gives blessings even to evil people. And He gives us time to see things rightly.

Jesus died to sanctify people into a reconciliation with the Father. The ministry of reconciliation is not about forgiveness...but one of sanctification.

Be holy for I am holy.

There are blinders on people's eyes..I know that.



But when the blinders come off, it is so apparent what Jesus came to do. If He gives us grace to walk in holiness, then there is no need of a never ending cycle of forgiveness. Like a drug addict who doesn't need any more drugs if he is no longer addicted.

So then Jesus tackled the ROOT of the problem of sin....and not the symptoms.

Jesus came to set us FREE from sin and bondage...not just cover it up. The POWER of the gospel is grace through faith that overcomes the sin nature by crucifying the part of us that sins.

And Jesus died for the whole word? Yes. But He was RAISED for our new life that we should walk in it now. That's why we are to seek first the kingdom...Jesus is waiting for us there. The Father translates us into HIM to walk as He walked.

The gospel is not a new religion....no, it is the power of God usward who believe. Which is by grace through faith.

Jesus sanctifies with His blood, not forgives,. Jesus is already merciful. God was ALWAYS merciful.

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify (not forgive) the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Heb. 13:12

It is a slight on God's character to think that God is so unmerciful that Jesus had to die to forgive our weaknesses. Rather, we are made strong in Him in our weakness. God chose a way for us to have victory over sin in our weakness...by grace through faith.


I suggest a revision of my post # 686 to understand the difference between FREEDOM from sin and a release from the penalty of sin (forgiveness).

Jesus came to save us FROM our sin...not IN our sin. He came to set the captives free. He came to TAKE AWAY the sins of the world.

:)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is a very clever ploy to get Jesus to die.... for God to do what He always did...forgive people...be merciful. And by doing this to deny what Jesus really died to do...make people holy.

God has always been merciful and forgiving. God forgives people so many times...uncountable. He gives blessings even to evil people. And He gives us time to see things rightly.

Jesus died to sanctify people into a reconciliation with the Father. The ministry of reconciliation is not about forgiveness...but one of sanctification.

Be holy for I am holy.

There are blinders on people's eyes..I know that.

There you go @Nancy

to him it is a ploy to make Jesus death about forgiveness, You also see the other thing that irritates people. His attitude. In the first post. He mocked us all by saying he is the teacher!! (He is the know it all that is going to school us all) Now he is claiming us to be deceivers and blind guides.

 

[Behold]

It is a very clever ploy to get Jesus to die.... for God to do what He always did...forgive people...be merciful. And by doing this to deny what Jesus really died to do...make people holy.

She asked you to explain why you teach that "The Cross is not about Forgiveness".

Start anytime you like.

 

[Behold]

Jesus came to save us FROM our sin...not IN our sin.

Here is what Paul teaches..

"While we were YET SINNERS, Christ died for us"... (On The Cross).

Here is what Paul Teaches.

"To those who worketh not, but Believeth in God, who ....JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY...THEIR Faith, is counted (By God) as Righteousness". @Episkopos

 

[Johann]

It is a very clever ploy to get Jesus to die.... for God to do what He always did...forgive people...be merciful. And by doing this to deny what Jesus really died to do...make people holy.

God has always been merciful and forgiving. God forgives people so many times...uncountable. He gives blessings even to evil people. And He gives us time to see things rightly.

Jesus died to sanctify people into a reconciliation with the Father. The ministry of reconciliation is not about forgiveness...but one of sanctification.

Be holy for I am holy.

There are blinders on people's eyes..I know that.



But when the blinders come off, it is so apparent what Jesus came to do. If He gives us grace to walk in holiness, then there is no need of a never ending cycle of forgiveness. Like a drug addict who doesn't need any more drugs if he is no longer addicted.

So then Jesus tackled the ROOT of the problem of sin....and not the symptoms.

Jesus came to set us FREE from sin and bondage...not just cover it up. The POWER of the gospel is grace through faith that overcomes the sin nature by crucifying the part of us that sins.

And Jesus died for the whole word? Yes. But He was RAISED for our new life that we should walk in it now. That's why we are to seek first the kingdom...Jesus is waiting for us there. The Father translates us into HIM to walk as He walked.

The gospel is not a new religion....no, it is the power of God usward who believe. Which is by grace through faith.

Jesus sanctifies with His blood, not forgives,. Jesus is already merciful. God was ALWAYS merciful.

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify (not forgive) the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Heb. 13:12

It is a slight on God's character to think that God is so unmerciful that Jesus had to die to forgive our weaknesses. Rather, we are made strong in Him in our weakness. God chose a way for us to have victory over sin in our weakness...by grace through faith.


I suggest a revision of my post # 686 to understand the difference between FREEDOM from sin and a release from the penalty of sin (forgiveness).

Jesus came to save us FROM our sin...not IN our sin. He came to set the captives free. He came to TAKE AWAY the sins of the world.

:)

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify (not forgive) the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Heb. 13:12

That's it? One verse theology?




Greek Text and Parsing
Hebrews 13:12 (SBL Greek New Testament):

Copy code
διὸ καὶ Ἰησοῦς ἵνα ἁγιάσῃ διὰ τοῦ ἰδίου αἵματος τὸν λαὸν ἔξω τῆς πύλης ἔπαθεν.
Interlinear and Parsing
Greek Parsing English Translation
διὸ (dio) CONJ (conjunction) Therefore
καὶ (kai) CONJ (conjunction) also
Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous) N-NSM (noun, nominative, singular, masculine) Jesus
ἵνα (hina) CONJ (conjunction) in order that
ἁγιάσῃ (hagiasei) V-AAS-3S (verb, aorist, active, subjunctive, 3rd person singular) he might sanctify
διὰ (dia) PREP (preposition) through
τοῦ (tou) T-GSN (article, genitive, singular, neuter) the
ἰδίου (idiou) A-GSN (adjective, genitive, singular, neuter) own
αἵματος (haimatos) N-GSN (noun, genitive, singular, neuter) blood
τὸν (ton) T-ASM (article, accusative, singular, masculine) the
λαὸν (laon) N-ASM (noun, accusative, singular, masculine) people
ἔξω (exō) ADV (adverb) outside
τῆς (tēs) T-GSF (article, genitive, singular, feminine) the
πύλης (pylēs) N-GSF (noun, genitive, singular, feminine) gate
ἔπαθεν (epathen) V-2AAI-3S (verb, second aorist, active, indicative, 3rd person singular) he suffered
Translation
"Therefore Jesus also, in order that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate."

Exegesis
διὸ καὶ Ἰησοῦς (dio kai Iēsous):

διὸ (dio): "Therefore" or "for this reason" connects this verse to the preceding context. It indicates a conclusion or result based on what has previously been stated.
καὶ (kai): "also" suggests that Jesus' actions are in addition to something previously mentioned or understood.
Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous): "Jesus" is the subject of the sentence.
ἵνα ἁγιάσῃ (hina hagiasei):

ἵνα (hina): "in order that" introduces a purpose clause. This conjunction indicates the purpose or goal of Jesus' suffering.
ἁγιάσῃ (hagiasei): "He might sanctify" is an aorist active subjunctive verb. The subjunctive mood here indicates the purpose or intended result of Jesus' action. "Sanctify" means to make holy or set apart for sacred use.
διὰ τοῦ ἰδίου αἵματος (dia tou idiou haimatos):

διὰ (dia): "through" is a preposition indicating means or agency.
τοῦ ἰδίου αἵματος (tou idiou haimatos): "His own blood." The genitive case here indicates possession, and this phrase specifies the means by which Jesus sanctifies—the shedding of His own blood.
τὸν λαὸν (ton laon):

τὸν λαὸν (ton laon): "the people." This accusative noun is the direct object of the verb "sanctify," indicating those who are being sanctified.
ἔξω τῆς πύλης (exō tēs pylēs):

ἔξω (exō): "outside" is an adverb indicating location.
τῆς πύλης (tēs pylēs): "the gate." The genitive case indicates the gate's relation to the location where Jesus suffered.
ἔπαθεν (epathen):

ἔπαθεν (epathen): "He suffered" is an aorist active indicative verb, indicating a past action that Jesus underwent. This suffering occurred outside the gate, aligning with the imagery of the sacrificial system where the sin offerings were burned outside the camp (Leviticus 16:27).
Theological Significance
Jesus' Sanctification Through Blood: This passage emphasizes that Jesus' suffering and death had a sanctifying purpose. By His own blood, He sets apart His people, making them holy and acceptable to God.
Location of Suffering: The mention of Jesus suffering "outside the gate" is significant. It recalls the Old Testament practice of burning the bodies of sacrificial animals outside the camp (Leviticus 16:27). This imagery highlights Jesus as the ultimate sin offering, bearing the reproach and sin of the people outside the sacred precincts.
Connection to Sacrificial Imagery: Hebrews often draws parallels between the Old Covenant sacrificial system and Jesus' ultimate sacrifice. Here, Jesus' suffering outside the gate aligns with the sacrificial practices, underscoring His role as the fulfillment of those sacrifices.
In summary, Hebrews 13:12 highlights that Jesus sanctified the people through His own blood, suffering outside the gate in fulfillment of the sacrificial system. This underscores the completeness and efficacy of Jesus' sacrifice for the sanctification of believers.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is a very clever ploy to get Jesus to die.... for God to do what He always did...forgive people...be merciful. And by doing this to deny what Jesus really died to do...make people holy.

God has always been merciful and forgiving. God forgives people so many times...uncountable. He gives blessings even to evil people. And He gives us time to see things rightly.

Jesus died to sanctify people into a reconciliation with the Father. The ministry of reconciliation is not about forgiveness...but one of sanctification.

Be holy for I am holy.

There are blinders on people's eyes..I know that.

You have people saved in sin, You have them saved while still under the penalty of sin.

You can’t be holy while still under the penalty of sin.

But when the blinders come off, it is so apparent what Jesus came to do. If He gives us grace to walk in holiness, then there is no need of a never ending cycle of forgiveness. Like a drug addict who doesn't need any more drugs if he is no longer addicted.

Blinders?

So then Jesus tackled the ROOT of the problem of sin....and not the symptoms.

He tacked the penalty of sin. So he could restore us to him, And in doing so removed the power of sin.

Jesus came to set us FREE from sin and bondage...not just cover it up. The POWER of the gospel is grace through faith that overcomes the sin nature by crucifying the part of us that sins.

If yur sin is not covered, Your still dead.

And Jesus died for the whole word? Yes. But He was RAISED for our new life that we should walk in it now. That's why we are to seek first the kingdom...Jesus is waiting for us there. The Father translates us into HIM to walk as He walked.

Yes, Here is about the only thing you say that is right. You just have the way into this new life in error

The gospel is not a new religion....no, it is the power of God usward who believe. Which is by grace through faith.

Grace through faith, Unearned. Not of works. Not how good or bad we are.

Not by good deeds we have done but by his mercy he saved us

Jesus sanctifies with His blood, not forgives,. Jesus is already merciful. God was ALWAYS merciful.

This is blasphemy!

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify (not forgive) the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Heb. 13:12

Blasphemy part two

It is a slight on God's character to think that God is so unmerciful that Jesus had to die to forgive our weaknesses.

What? That is the love of God. He said himself. No greater love than one dies for another..

Rather, we are made strong in Him in our weakness. God chose a way for us to have victory over sin in our weakness...by grace through faith.


I suggest a revision of my post # 686 to understand the difference between FREEDOM from sin and a release from the penalty of sin (forgiveness).

Jesus came to save us FROM our sin...not IN our sin. He came to set the captives free. He came to TAKE AWAY the sins of the world.

:)

Wow. Just wow.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is a very clever ploy to get Jesus to die.... for God to do what He always did...forgive people...be merciful. And by doing this to deny what Jesus really died to do...make people holy.


Jesus died to sanctify people into a reconciliation with the Father. The ministry of reconciliation is not about forgiveness...but one of sanctification.

But when the blinders come off, it is so apparent what Jesus came to do. If He gives us grace to walk in holiness, then there is no need of a never ending cycle of forgiveness. Like a drug addict who doesn't need any more drugs if he is no longer addicted.



Jesus came to set us FREE from sin and bondage...not just cover it up.


Jesus sanctifies with His blood, not forgives,.

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify (not forgive) the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Heb. 13:12

It is a slight on God's character to think that God is so unmerciful that Jesus had to die to forgive our weaknesses.

Again @Nancy I think this about explains it all..

 

[Johann]

Again @Nancy I think this about explains it all..

@Episkopos is not qualified to teach.