LOCUSTS From The Book of JOEL

[TribulationSigns]

Again, you did not answer my simple, straightforward questions. I'm simply asking you if you believe in the existence of an evil spirit being named Satan who is also known as the devil? Yes or no? Who or what do you think is "the Devil" that tempted Jesus in the wilderness?

I did. Read carefully. You may not see it becasue you do not like the answer.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I did. Read carefully. You may not see it becasue you do not like the answer.

Anyone who tries to avoid answering simple questions or can't be bothered with clarifying their answers should not be trusted. Thank you for revealing that to everyone about yourself.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Anyone who tries to avoid answering simple questions or can't be bothered with clarifying their answers should not be trusted. Thank you for revealing that to everyone about yourself.

I won't waste time with someone who does not have spiritual understanding. I have quoted Scripture explaining Christ in the wilderness and who the spirit was. And that is okay. It is up to the Lord who judges our testimony. :-)

 

[Davy]

This is not coming from any "teacher" whatever, except from the scriptures which I just quoted from your immediate Mark 13 context.

QUESTIONS FOR YOU: Just when are the authorities going to be coming to "deliver you up" to the rulers of a Sanhedrin council which no longer exists?
Also, when are the authorities going to be beating and scourging you in some synagogue?

You just are not very well informed and are living in a bubble of your own doing. The Jewish Sanhedrin of 70 Jewish leaders in Jerusalem formed up again decades ago.

This is not coming from any "teacher" whatever, except from the scriptures which I just quoted from your immediate Mark 13 context.

QUESTIONS FOR YOU: Just when are the authorities going to be coming to "deliver you up" to the rulers of a Sanhedrin council which no longer exists?
Also, when are the authorities going to be beating and scourging you in some synagogue?

Apparently you don't yet realize just who the "synagogue of Satan" really is. It is not simply about a small group of Orthodox Jewish leaders. It's higher than that (try Ephesians 6:11-12).

An Orthodox Jewish gathering back in 2004 to form up a representative group of the old Sanhedrin happened, regardless of whether or not others recognized it officially:

"In October 2004 (Tishrei 5765), a group of rabbis representing varied Orthodox communities in Israel undertook a ceremony in Tiberias,[10][11] where the original Sanhedrin was disbanded. About one hundred of them at the time having proper Semikhah. This was one year after the re-establishment of Semikhah. A Beth Din of 71 was formed. They claimed to re-establish this body according to the proposal of Maimonides and the Jewish legal rulings of Rabbi Yosef Karo. The controversial attempt has been subject to debate within different Jewish communities." (from 2004 attempt to revive the Sanhedrin - Wikipedia)​

Furthermore, the timing that the delivering up of saints in Mark 13 is further at the END of this world, not now. It will be when the "two witnesses" of Rev.11 get here to witness.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Furthermore, the timing that the delivering up of saints in Mark 13 is further at the END of this world, not now. It will be when the "two witnesses" of Rev.11 get here to witness.

You aren't even bothering to read the companion text of Mark 13 which is found in Matthew 10:16-23. This prophecy dates these words of Christ to a time period which would end with His first-century coming return in the generation of His own disciples. You are mistaken: it was NOT at the "end of this world". Christ's own 12 disciples during their first-century evangelistic ministry would be "persecuted from city to city", and they would be "hated of all men", both Jew and Gentile.

Christ promised that the evangelistic ministry of these twelve "shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." That was a first-century fulfillment of Christ's twelve disciples being delivered up to councils, governors, and kings as a result of their evangelistic ministry from city to city in Israel. They would be scourged in the synagogues in those days, and the book of Acts records this very thing happening.

Neither you nor I are in danger of being brought before any Sanhedrin council today, nor will we be "scourged in the synagogues". There are other persecutions which we may fall prey to, but the nation of Israel as operating today has no such authority as described in Mark 13 and Matthew 10 over the believers in the world.

As for the "two witnesses" of Revelation 11 that were to die in the city of Jerusalem, this has already happened back in AD 68 / 67 with the murder of the last two former high priests who had been holding back the Zealots' complete take-over in Jerusalem. Their names were Ananus ben Annas and Joshua ben Gamaliel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I won't waste time with someone who does not have spiritual understanding.

That's good. You know enough to not waste time with other people like yourself then.

 

[TribulationSigns]

That's good. You know enough to not waste time with other people like yourself then.

You do not speak for other people whom I still deal with. Good bye.

 

[Davy]

You aren't even bothering to read the companion text of Mark 13 which is found in Matthew 10:16-23. This prophecy dates these words of Christ to a time period which would end with His first-century coming return in the generation of His own disciples. You are mistaken: it was NOT at the "end of this world". Christ's own 12 disciples during their first-century evangelistic ministry would be "persecuted from city to city", and they would be "hated of all men", both Jew and Gentile.

Yes I have read Matt.10:17 forward, which is about the delivering up of Christ's disciples at the time of Christ's Ministry.


But the Matt.24 and Mark 13 versions are for a DIFFERENT TIME, the time at the END of this world, because there Jesus was giving the delivering up warning with the Signs of the End of days, basically our days.

Do you not remember what the 5th Seal is about at the END? (see Rev.6:9-11) It's about the delivering up at the end of this world for the time of "great tribulation".

Matt 24:9-13
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV



Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV

 

[3 Resurrections]

But the Matt.24 and Mark 13 versions are for a DIFFERENT TIME, the time at the END of this world, because there Jesus was giving the delivering up warning with the Signs of the End of days, basically our days.

Do you not remember what the 5th Seal is about at the END? (see Rev.6:9-11) It's about the delivering up at the end of this world for the time of "great tribulation".

The "Great Tribulation" was prophesied for those in Judea and Jerusalem to flee from those coming disasters. There was going to be 'great distress in the land and wrath upon THIS people", which was those living in Judea at the time (Luke 21:23). Christ forewarned of these coming disasters when He spoke to the women weeping for Him on the way to His crucifixion. He told them to "weep not for me but for YOURSELVES and for YOUR CHILDREN" for the horrors they themselves would pass through in their own generation.

It was NOT a "different time", but the very same first-century time period under discussion in all these texts you are bringing up. And none of these texts applied to the "end of the world", but to "the end of the AGE". It was the same "END of all things" which 1 Peter 4:7 said was then "AT HAND" as he was writing.

 

[Davy]

The "Great Tribulation" was prophesied for those in Judea and Jerusalem to flee from those coming disasters.

You are instead listening to men's doctrines about Christ's Olivet discourse (Matt.24; Mark 13; Luke 21).

Christ's Olivet discourse is about the Signs of the END of this world leading up to Christ's future return and gathering of His faithful Church.

You instead are falsely being told those Signs were already history by idiotic men who couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[3 Resurrections]

You are instead listening to men's doctrines about Christ's Olivet discourse (Matt.24; Mark 13; Luke 21).

LOL, I am reading straight from the text itself. I listen to no one who counters what scripture directly teaches. The text itself mentions those living in Judea and Jerusalem who were warned by Christ to flee from both areas when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies, because that was when the "great distress in the land and wrath upon THIS people" would take place. Those living in Judea and especially Jerusalem who survived those "days of vengeance" unto the end of the Jewish / Roman war were going to be taken captive into all the other nations (Luke 21:24). Which they were in AD 70.

It was my pre-mil disp. religious teachers from my youth upward that hid these scriptural and historical facts from me, either from ignorance or on purpose. Thankfully, I have learned otherwise in my senior years from reading the scriptures and historical accounts for myself instead of depending on so-called "professionals" to interpret them for me.

 

[Davy]

LOL, I am reading straight from the text itself. I listen to no one who counters what scripture directly teaches. The text itself mentions those living in Judea and Jerusalem who were warned by Christ to flee from both areas when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies, because that was when the "great distress in the land and wrath upon THIS people" would take place. Those living in Judea and especially Jerusalem who survived those "days of vengeance" unto the end of the Jewish / Roman war were going to be taken captive into all the other nations (Luke 21:24). Which they were in AD 70.

No, you are ADDING to the 'text' instead of reading straight from the text. An assumption that Christ's Olivet discourse was for the time of Christ's 1st coming, or about 70 A.D., is an ADDED assumption to that Scripture, especially because of men's doctrine of Preterism and/or Historicism.

The Signs Jesus gave upon the Mount of Olives is for the END of this world, not 70 A.D., otherwise Jesus would not have given the Sign of His future coming in it to gather His Church.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The Signs Jesus gave upon the Mount of Olives is for the END of this world, not 70 A.D., otherwise Jesus would not have given the Sign of His future coming in it to gather His Church

There is no promise whatever in scripture for the end of the planet's existence. But there was a promise for the "end of the AGE". Paul testified of this to his 1 Corinthians 10:11 first-century audience concerning the OT scripture stories, "Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR admonition, upon whom the ENDS OF THE AGES HAVE COME." The ending of those particular ages had then arrived for those whom Paul was then addressing. These are what you are mistaking for an end of the world.

Christ came to gather His resurrected saints to Himself in AD 70 on the very last 1,335th day that Daniel 12:11-13 had predicted long before then.

I have added NOTHING to the text that Christ did not say. He predicted to His own disciples that every single event in the Olivet Discourse from Luke 21:8-35 was included among "ALL these things that are ABOUT TO come to pass". This also included His second coming, which was part of that list of soon-coming events in Luke 21:3-35.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, you are ADDING to the 'text' instead of reading straight from the text. An assumption that Christ's Olivet discourse was for the time of Christ's 1st coming, or about 70 A.D., is an ADDED assumption to that Scripture, especially because of men's doctrine of Preterism and/or Historicism.

It is certainly partly about what happened in 70 AD, but not all of it is as preterists falsely believe. To deny it has nothing at all to do with 70 AD is just ridiculous.

Matthew 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Do you seriously think that after Jesus told the disciples that the temple buildings standing at that time would be destroyed, that they wouldn't ask any questions about that? It had to be shocking for them to hear Him say that, so they naturally would want to know more about it. So, their first question to Him after He told them that is in relation to when the temple buildings would be destroyed. And He answered it in Matthew 24:15-21 (Mark 13:14-19, Luke 21:20-24). But, He also separately answered the question about His still future second coming at the end of this temporal age.

Futurists and preterists both misinterpret parts of the Olivet Discourse because of wrongly thinking it is either all about 70 AD or all about things that have not yet happened. It's about both.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Futurists and preterists both misinterpret parts of the Olivet Discourse because of wrongly thinking it is either all about 70 AD or all about things that have not yet happened. It's about both.

You're right, it IS about both. The line of demarcation between the two is that whatever prophecies which were WRITTEN were fulfilled (Luke 21:22 - "...that all things which are written may be fulfilled").

What prophecies were NOT WRITTEN were "sealed up" in Revelation 10:4 for times following AD 70. Those "sealed up" visions were whatever the seven thunders uttered that John was forbidden to write down, since these prophecies did not apply to events that were then "at hand" (Rev. 1:3 & 22:10). But all the rest of Revelation's revealed, WRITTEN prophecies of future events WERE fulfilled in that first-century generation, as Christ said they would be (Luke 21:22).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You're right, it IS about both. The line of demarcation between the two is that whatever prophecies which were WRITTEN were fulfilled (Luke 21:22 - "...that all things which are written may be fulfilled").

I was saying it is both about what happened in 70 AD and what would happen after 70 AD up until the future second coming of Christ. That is not what you're agreeing with, though. You do not believe that the Olivet Discourse is about anything that occurrs after 70 AD.

What prophecies were NOT WRITTEN were "sealed up" in Revelation 10:4 for times following AD 70. Those "sealed up" visions were whatever the seven thunders uttered that John was forbidden to write down, since these prophecies did not apply to events that were then "at hand" (Rev. 1:3 & 22:10). But all the rest of Revelation's revealed, WRITTEN prophecies of future events WERE fulfilled in that first-century generation, as Christ said they would be (Luke 21:22).

I couldn't disagree more. There is no basis whatsoever for applying what Jesus said in Luke 21:22, which only applies to what happened in 70 AD as prophesied in the OT, to the entire book of Revelation. That is complete nonsense.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

There is still death, sorrow, crying and pain. This passage has not been fulfilled. Jesus has not yet come again as Revelation 19:11-21 indicates. You are sadly mistaken and deceived.

 

[Davy]

There is no promise whatever in scripture for the end of the planet's existence.

I never said there was anything about the end of this planet's existence. Even when others quote 2 Peter 3:10 about the earth being burned up I tell them that means man's works burned off the surface of the earth, not the earth being literally destroyed. So don't assume I believe things that I do not.

But there was a promise for the "end of the AGE". Paul testified of this to his 1 Corinthians 10:11 first-century audience concerning the OT scripture stories, "Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR admonition, upon whom the ENDS OF THE AGES HAVE COME." The ending of those particular ages had then arrived for those whom Paul was then addressing. These are what you are mistaking for an end of the world.

I well know that Preterism tries to use that 'age' word to mean some other thing than this present world time, but that really does not work, simply because the idea of God's consuming fire burning man's works off this earth per 2 Peter 3:10 is a 'world' ending type of event that Peter had been covering in that chapter; like with the time of the flood of Noah. So was Noah's flood world-wide and did it wipe out all those outside the ark, yet the plant life was still preserved? Well that is the kind of event the coming 2 Peter 3:10 consuming fire event will be on the future "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns on the "last trump". Apostle Paul explains this too at the end of Hebrews 12.

Christ came to gather His resurrected saints to Himself in AD 70 on the very last 1,335th day that Daniel 12:11-13 had predicted long before then.

Impossible.
The coming time of "great tribulation" hasn't even begun yet today. And that tribulation time per the Book of Daniel, Christ's Olivet discourse, and Christ's Revelation given through Apostle John has to be over before that latter 1335 day period of Daniel 12 will come to pass. So the Biblical timeline you've been taught is terribly in error.

I have added NOTHING to the text that Christ did not say.

You just did ADD to Scripture, again, by claiming the 1335 days of Daniel 12 was history at Christ's 1st coming. You have NO Biblical proof of that, and it's not even your idea, but one you just swallowed from men's doctrines.

He predicted to His own disciples that every single event in the Olivet Discourse from Luke 21:8-35 was included among "ALL these things that are ABOUT TO come to pass". This also included His second coming, which was part of that list of soon-coming events in Luke 21:3-35.

I won't even waste my time showing how in error that... is, it's so totally out of the context of the actual Bible Scripture.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I couldn't disagree more. There is no basis whatsoever for applying what Jesus said in Luke 21:22, which only applies to what happened in 70 AD as prophesied in the OT, to the entire book of Revelation. That is complete nonsense.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

There is still death, sorrow, crying and pain. This passage has not been fulfilled. Jesus has not yet come again as Revelation 19:11-21 indicates. You are sadly mistaken and deceived.

The basis for what I am writing here is found in John's own language in Revelation 1:3 and 22:10 and elsewhere in the book. John announced that "the time is AT HAND" in his own days for the fulfillment of those prophecies of future events. Just because you cannot see HOW those events were fulfilled back in the first century does not mean that they had NOT been fulfilled back then in John's days.

If a writer (CHRIST through John) tells you how to interpret His own book in both the introduction (Rev. 1:3) and the conclusion (Rev. 22:10) of His work, you are obliged to go by that directive - regardless of what you think may or may not have happened back then.

Revelations' fulfilled predictions for the New Heavens and the New Earth are in place today, and have been since AD 70 and the end of that AGE. If you paid careful attention to Isaiah 65's conditions predicted for this NHNE, you would see that physical death is still taking place there for both the righteous and the wicked, and that childbirth and prayers are still occurring (which are not part of the eternal state). The NHNE conditions with the "healing of the nations" is still an ongoing process on earth (as in Revelation 22:2) , because the evangelistic commission is still ours to perform, even during the New Covenant conditions of a NHNE existence. That is because sinners are still outside the gates of the New Jerusalem (Rev. 22:15), in need of "healing" by the gospel so that they can enter the "gates" of this New Jerusalem reality as a believer.

If you are a believer, then God's own Holy Spirit dwells within you and "tabernacles" with you and all who belong to Him in this world, as an ongoing fulfillment of Revelation 21:3.

The end of "sorrows" in Rev. 21:4 referred to Christ's prediction concerning "the beginning of sorrows" in Matthew 24:8. Christ's own disciples would experience this "beginning of sorrows" in their own generation before the Great Tribulation years arrived in AD 66-70 for Judea and Jerusalem in particular. Those particular "sorrows" as cause for crying and distress ceased with the AD 70 conclusion of the Great Tribulation period.

As for there being "no more death" in this New Jerusalem reality, if one is in Christ as a believer, we have Christ's promise that "He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but has passed from death unto life." (John 5:24). And "whosoever liveth and believeth in me in no wise shall die forever." (John 11:26).

Of course we are awaiting a final conclusion to fallen mankind's existence on this planet in a final judgment when all human evil is purged from this planet with an end to disease, tribulations, and physical death occurring. But that is not what Revelation was describing for times that were then "AT HAND" for the first-century audience.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I never said there was anything about the end of this planet's existence. Even when others quote 2 Peter 3:10 about the earth being burned up I tell them that means man's works burned off the surface of the earth, not the earth being literally destroyed. So don't assume I believe things that I do not.

That's good, I'm glad we agree on this point that the planet was not scheduled for annihilation - just renovation.

Impossible.
The coming time of "great tribulation" hasn't even begun yet today

The language of scripture tells us that the "Great Tribulation" has long since passed. Those "days of vengeance" called "the Great Tribulation" and "great distress in the land and wrath upon THIS people" (Israelites in Luke 21:22-23 cp. Matt. 24:21) came upon the first-century generation of those who had rejected Christ and put Him to death. "His blood be on us and our children" was a blood-oath that caused the "days of vengeance" from God to descend upon that first-century generation of Israelites - and not any other generation or location since then.

I should think you would be grateful that this unprecedented period of the "days of vengeance" and "Great Tribulation" is not a fate which you yourself will suffer.

You just did ADD to Scripture, again, by claiming the 1335 days of Daniel 12 was history at Christ's 1st coming. You have NO Biblical proof of that, and it's not even your idea, but one you just swallowed from men's doctrines.

You are misquoting me. Daniel 12:11-13 and that 1,335th day was fulfilled on AD 70's Pentecost day at Jerusalem. That was Christ's SECOND coming - not the first coming. The two events Daniel 11:11 predicted which took place in the same season of time in AD 66 started the 1,335 day countdown which came to an end in AD 70's Pentecost day when Christ returned to the Mount of Olives. Josephus recorded the timing for when Daniel 11:11's two predicted events took place in AD 66, without even knowing that he was doing so.

I won't even waste my time showing how in error that... is, it's so totally out of the context of the actual Bible Scripture.

When Christ predicted that "ALL these things" in the entire list of disastrous events from Luke 21:8-35 was "ABOUT TO come to pass" (including His coming return in great power and glory), this is what the import of the original Greek tells us. If you don't care to consult translations that correctly include the meaning of the original languages, that is your problem, not mine. It used to be my problem also, but not anymore.

 

[Ziggy]

Let's not mention the illegal immigration taking place all over the world.
What do locusts do? They migrate from place to place eating every green thing in their path.
This immigration situation we are facing sounds a lot like armies of locusts invading green pastures.
Problems in Italy, the UK, Canada, France, USA... and they are coming from places that are not very commonly known.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-immigration. But we are getting swarmed everywhere at the same time.
Coincidence?
Nah..
There are no coincidences.
Hugs