LOCUSTS From The Book of JOEL

[Davy]

I know that an invading army can devastate the land, and I considered this possibility when I studied Joel. Based on clues in the text, I decided that Joel was speaking literally when he mentioned the locusts.

Then you are using your 'carnal' mind to think that, because God Himself told us what the locusts in the Book of Joel represent...

Joel 1:4-7
4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.

5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.

6 For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.

7 He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
KJV


Since when does a "nation" mean literal locusts?? Even that "teeth are the teeth of a lion" analogy is given in the Revelation 9 reference about the locusts. It doesn't take a lot of common sense to understand God is only using... real locusts as a SYMBOL for that "nation" that comes upon His land (Israel).

 

[3 Resurrections]

How convenient for you to explain away the past events that were NOT "at hand". I can't take this seriously. To me, you are making scripture say what you want it to say. You do not interpret the rest of the book in a consistent manner with how you interpret Revelation 1:3. You explain it away with your nonsense about the past events. And your interpretation of Revelation 20 doesn't even begin to make any sense. I just can't take that seriously.

That's okay that you don't get my points...for the next person down the line that does take things seriously, it just might make perfect sense.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I disagree, the time of "great tribulation" is not past history. Instead, it is nearly upon us today with the devil's "one world government" globalist movement which is the beast of Revelation 13:1.

In Daniel's image, there are no other one-world governments that successfully establish themselves once the "stone" kingdom of Christ strikes that image and reduces the entire thing to dust on the wind. That single blow was already struck back in AD 70. The "stone" kingdom is currently growing, as predicted, and will eventually fill the entire world with its effects. God's promise. The Rev. 13:1 Sea Beast is long gone since ancient days. In no way does this eliminate the future physical return once more of Christ to earth to crush any remnant of human evil on this planet. Christ rules now "in the midst of His enemies", regardless of their vain schemes of world dominance.

And I showed Jesus' quote from Isaiah 61 at the start of His Ministry per Luke 4, as He closed the Book of Isaiah without reading the last phrase of Isaiah 61:2, "day of vengeance", which is about His future 2nd coming. So that's two Bible witnesses that the "days of vengeance" is for the day of Christ's future coming.

I believe you and I would agree that Christ intentionally did not finish Isaiah 61's prophecy about the day of vengeance because this was coming in the future. But contrary to your expectation, it was NOT going to be in the distant future. Christ's main point of emphasis in the synagogue on that day was to announce that the beginning year of Daniel's 70'th week had started. The "days of vengeance" was highlighted later on, once the religious leadership made their rejection and hatred of Christ known to all. Later on in His ministry, Christ would then speak about the coming first-century "days of vengeance" which Israel would experience during the "last state" of that "wicked generation".

I am not misquoting you. You are ADDING man's doctrine to that Daniel 12 Scripture, because all the Daniel Scripture witnesses show the final Antichrist's working is in the last 1260 day period of the Daniel 9:27 final "one week" (7 years).

You are adding to Daniel's visions, since he nowhere makes any mention whatever of an "Antichrist". Daniel 9:27 speaks about the coming "Messiah the Prince" who would "confirm the covenant for one week". Christ Jesus was the "messenger of the covenant", and during His earthly ministry, He confirmed the New Covenant with many of His own people.

Messiah the Prince was "cut off" by His crucifixion, fulfilling Daniel 9:26. After His ascension to heaven in the middle of that 70th "week", that New Covenant continued to be confirmed with many of Daniel's people, until AD 37 when the evangelistic emphasis switched over to the Gentiles under Paul's ministry. For you to call Daniel 9:25-27's coming "Messiah the Prince" the Antichrist is identity theft on your part, whether you realize it or not.

And Daniel 8 especially reveals the end of this 2nd world earth age at the end of the 2300 day period given there, because the cleansing of the sanctuary idea does not begin until Christ's future return.

No, you are completely erasing the intertestamental period of time when the sanctuary was cleansed after the Maccabean victories over Antiochus Epiphanes IV. Daniel 8 covers history from the Medo-Persian empire, to Alexander's conquest of the nations, then the breakup of his Greek kingdom and the rise of his four generals - the "four notable ones" - then the rise of Antiochus Epiphanes out of one of the four. From Daniel 8:9-25, the army of Antiochus E's destruction of the Jews and the oppression of their religion is covered. Daniel 8 has nothing to do with the time for the future return of Christ. Nothing whatever.

So that 1335 misplacement you did is not YOUR idea, it is a doctrine others came up with that you follow.

Daniel himself gives us the details of when that 1,335th day would expire, accompanied by a resurrection in which Daniel himself would share. Exactly 1,335 days after those two specific events Daniel 12:11 lists for us, the timing for that resurrection fell on AD 70's Pentecost Day. Josephus gives us the details concerning those two events taking place in the same season of time that pin down this specific date for Christ second coming back in AD 70. DANIEL is the source of this doctrine - not anyone that I follow.

Have we seen... Jesus' future coming today?? NO! of course not. For all those SIGNS He gave, it would mean Lord Jesus has ALREADY RETURNED today! Those pushing that LIE of course are either grossly deceived by the devil, or they work for the devil.

I have NOT denied a future coming of Christ. But it will be a THIRD coming - not the SECOND coming return which Christ said would occur in His own generation before all of those He personally spoke to had died (Matt. 16:27-28).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's okay that you don't get my points...for the next person down the line that does take things seriously, it just might make perfect sense.

Oh, I get your points. Completely. It's ridiculous for you to think that I consider your view to be nonsense just because I supposedly don't get your points. No, there isn't anything hard to understand about your point regarding Revelation 1:3. But, you don't want to acknowledge that your understanding of that verse means that nothing in the book can be about the past because it's all about what is "at hand", according to your interpretation of Revelation 1:3.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have NOT denied a future coming of Christ. But it will be a THIRD coming - not the SECOND coming return which Christ said would occur in His own generation before all of those He personally spoke to had died (Matt. 16:27-28).

Why does scripture never speak of a third coming of Christ? Surely, it would be referenced if there was such a thing. The second coming is specifically referenced, however.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Jesus came once, died for our sins, rose again and then ascended into heaven. Scripture teaches that He will come again ONE TIME, which will be "the SECOND TIME without sin unto salvation". He will come again ONE TIME and it will be in the same manner in which He ascended after the first time He came. That's it. Your view of a third coming is not taught anywhere in scripture. It contradicts scripture, as I'm showing here.

 

[tailgator]

(Continued...)

5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

The locusts "as a strong people set in battle array", having the power of fire that devours stubble. It's all an expression for how complete their takeover of the whole earth is.

6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.

Like an invincible army, they can't be killed.

9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.

They shall climb through your windows like a thief! These are expressions for their taking over everything. And what comes through your house? Their false media, false literature, false education, false history, false religion, need I go on? Senator Barry Goldwater was real accurate when he described there exists 4 main categories of control over the earth: the systems of 'education', 'political', 'finance', and 'religion'. Control of those categories upon this earth is what these locusts have been busy behind the scenes doing.

10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11 And the LORD shall utter His voice before His army: for His camp is very great: for He is strong That executeth His word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

The sun and moon turning dark, and the stars withdrawing their shinning, are symbols used about Christ's future coming per Matthew 24 and Mark 13. That is when the "day of the LORD will happen, with Christ's future return to fight with His army.

12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to Me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for He is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth Him of the evil.
14 Who knoweth if He will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind Him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:
16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.
17 Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, "Spare Thy people, O LORD, and give not Thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, "Where is their God?"

That is where we are at today in Bible prophecy. That is what we are supposed to be doing today, praying to The Father through His Son Jesus Christ, asking Him to save us from all this mess in the world which the locust army has created for their king, Satan.

18 Then will the LORD be jealous for His land, and pity His people.

Uh, oh... that's a good... sign for us, God's people. We welcome His return to destroy wickedness upon this earth.

19 Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto His people, "Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.
21 Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.

Northern army? Yes, the army coming out of the northern parts upon Israel on the last day, as God prophesied for the end in Ezekiel 38 and 39. That is what the future battle of Armageddon, and battle of Zechariah 14 will be about, with Christ's coming with His army from Heaven to fight it, with fire and brimstone, and hailstones weighing a talent (70-120 lbs.).

22 Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.
23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for He hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, My great army which I sent among you.

When all this is over, with Christ's future return, at that time God is going to restore all that the locust army had taken.

Notice especially, that God calls that locust army, "My great army which I sent among you"! You mean God is allowing that locust army to operate, and take over control of this earth and the wealth of His people in the last days? That's right. Those who support it, whether deceived or not deceived, that follow it, will make it easy for God to do some pruning, as each person will be held responsible for what they follow in the last days.

26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, That hath dealt wondrously with you: and My people shall never be ashamed.
27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and My people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit.

Apostle Peter quoted that on Pentecost in Acts 2, pointing to the cloven tongue as an example of God pouring out of His Spirit upon His people in the last days. But never forget, that Acts 2 was an 'example' of what the cloven tongue is actually for at the very end during the time of "great tribulation". Some of us are going to be delivered up to give a Testimony for Jesus by The Holy Spirit speaking through us against this beast and its locust army (see Mark 13).

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
KJV

That event of the sun turned to darkness, and the moon into blood, are all signs for the very end, just PRIOR to that final day of this world, the "day of the LORD" that will come "as a thief in the night".

Thus the 'locust army' is NOT about monsters. It is about a NATION, a STRONG PEOPLE of men that God allows to take over this earth for the last days. And they will not miss any little thing in that complete takeover, and they will be unstoppable by us. This is why Rev.13 asks who can make war with the beast?

I agree with most of what you said but not Ezekiel 38-39.
Ezekiel 38-39 is post millinium.

It is the king of the norths armed forces in Daniel 11:31-45 that corresponds to Joel.That army is pre great tribulation seen in Daniel 12:1.Pre millinium.

The king of the north gives Israel.an army that occupies Israel for 42 months.During which the christians in Israel are persecuted .At the end of the 42 months that army and Israel are attacked in Daniel 11:40.

Daniel 11

40 “At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood. 41 He will also invade the Beautiful Land. Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab and the leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand. 42 He will extend his power over many countries; Egypt will not escape. 43 He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and all the riches of Egypt, with the Libyans and Cushites[e] in submission. 44 But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many. 45 He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at[f] the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.



This is where the US armed forces use some of those 5000 nukes they got laid up for a special occasion.They will make the land desolate.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Joel 1:4-7
4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.

Symbolic language is easy to recognize because the predicate doesn't naturally follow from the subject. For instance, the Book of Revelation depicts a sword coming out of Jesus's mouth. Since men don't normally carry swords in their mouths or hold a sword in their mouths, the reader knows that the words are intended to represent something about Jesus symbolically.

Contrary to that, Joel mentions several species of locusts and records them doing what locusts usually do. The palmerworm, cankerworm, and caterpillar are real insects. They typically strip vegetation from trees, bushes, and crops. Starvation and thirst are the natural results of crop devastation and ruin. The reader understands that Joel speaks literally since the subject and predicate talk about natural, expected behaviors.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Jesus came once, died for our sins, rose again and then ascended into heaven. Scripture teaches that He will come again ONE TIME, which will be "the SECOND TIME without sin unto salvation". He will come again ONE TIME and it will be in the same manner in which He ascended after the first time He came. That's it. Your view of a third coming is not taught anywhere in scripture. It contradicts scripture, as I'm showing here.

No, a third coming of Christ does NOT contradict the scriptures you are submitting here. The Hebrews 9:27 verse says nothing either one way or another about a third coming. It doesn't prove a third coming, and it doesn't disprove a third coming. All it does is mention a second appearance of Christ at His return.

Likewise, Acts 1:9 says nothing either one way or another about a third coming. It doesn't prove a third coming, and it doesn't disprove a third coming. All it does is speak about the next second coming of Christ in like manner to how He left this planet at His Acts 1 ascension - physically, and visibly, and in the clouds.

You would like to limit Christ's return to this planet to one occasion ONLY, but that is not how scripture deals with this subject. AT Christ's second coming, Christ promised His disciples that He would "receive you unto myself, that where I am, there ye may be also." That means Christ would return to earth for the resurrected righteous saints who would be gathered together to him and He would return to heaven with them at that time.

There are several texts which describe conditions for ages of ongoing history taking place on this planet AFTER Christ's second coming return and the establishment of the NHNE reality (Matthew 24:21 cp. 24:29-30, Zechariah 14:16, Malachi 4, Isaiah 65:17-25, Revelation 22:2, 15). The wicked would still be present on earth, physical death and tribulation periods would still take place, prayers to God would continue, childbirth would still occur, and nations would still need healing.

Christ said He would commend those who remained faithfully watching on earth while they waited for His return from the wedding FEASTS (PLURAL). If He came in the second watch AND in the third watch and found His servants faithfully serving Him on both of those occasions, ALL of these would be blessed at His returns in the second and the third watch. Peter asked Christ if He was speaking just to them, or to all. Christ left this as a generic promise for ALL servants who remained faithfully serving. That promise of blessing would apply to us also who are waiting for Christ's THIRD coming in our future.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, a third coming of Christ does NOT contradict the scriptures you are submitting here. The Hebrews 9:27 verse says nothing either one way or another about a third coming. It doesn't prove a third coming, and it doesn't disprove a third coming. All it does is mention a second appearance of Christ at His return.

Likewise, Acts 1:9 says nothing either one way or another about a third coming. It doesn't prove a third coming, and it doesn't disprove a third coming. All it does is speak about the next coming of Christ in like manner to how He left this planet at His final ascension - physically, and visibly, and in the clouds.

LOL. The context of a coming of Christ is that it's visible. His first was visible and His second will be visible. So, if you talk about a third coming of Christ without specifying what you're talking about, it's natural to imply that you're talking about a third visible coming of Christ. So, to avoid confusion, you should not refer to any supposed non-visible coming of Christ as the third coming of Christ (or as the second of three comings of Christ). Instead, it would be the first non-visible coming of Christ.

Regardless, scripture does not teach a non-visible coming of Christ in 70 AD. Jesus indicated that would be a coming of the Father (Matthew 21:40).

You would like to limit Christ's return to this planet to one occasion ONLY, but that is not how scripture deals with this subject. AT Christ's second coming, Christ promised His disciples that He would "receive you unto myself, that where I am, there ye may be also." That means Christ would return to earth for the resurrected righteous saints who would be gathered together to him and He would return to heaven with them.

There is no scripture which teaches anything about Christ returning to earth and then taking anyone to heaven with Him.

There are several texts which describe conditions for ongoing history taking place on this planet AFTER Christ's second coming return and the establishment of the NHNE reality (Matthew 24:21 cp. 24:29-30, Zechariah 14:16, Malachi 4, Isaiah 65:17-25, Revelation 22:2, 15).

You misinterpret all of those and take them badly out of context and it results in your interpretations contradicting other scripture.

Christ said He would commend those who remained faithfully watching on earth while they waited for His return from the wedding FEASTS (PLURAL).

What are you talking about here? Please support your claims with scripture if you want me to take your claims seriously.

If He came in the second watch AND in the third watch and found His servants faithfully serving Him on both of those occasions, ALL of these would be blessed at His returns in the second and the third watch. Peter asked Christ if He was speaking just to them, or to all. Christ left this as a generic promise for ALL servants who remained faithfully serving. That promise of blessing would apply to us also who are waiting for Christ's THIRD coming in our future.

What are you talking about here? Please show the scripture that you are basing this on and we can then discuss it.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The context of a coming of Christ is that it's visible. His first was visible and His second will be visible. So, if you talk about a third coming of Christ without specifying what you're talking about, it's natural to imply that you're talking about a third visible coming of Christ.

Regardless, scripture does not teach a non-visible coming of Christ in 70 AD. Jesus indicated that would be a coming of the Father (Matthew 21:40).

Of course Christ's return was visible back in AD 70. Zechariah 12 tells us that it would be those ancient tribes and families of Israel who would be doing that mourning in Jerusalem when they saw Christ's return (which was going to be to the Mount of Olives location). Revelation 1:7 repeats this Zechariah 12 prophecy, specifying that it would be "those who pierced Him" who would see Christ's bodily return and would be wailing because of it.

Naturally, since Christ's first coming unto His own was in a visible, incarnate body, Christ's second coming in AD 70 also included His own visible, glorified, bodily-resurrected form that came out of the grave. In the future, Christ's next third coming return will also be in His own visible, glorified, bodily-resurrected form that came out of the grave.

You are right that scripture does not teach a "non-visible" second coming return of Christ in AD 70. It was most definitely a visible and a physical return of Christ to the Mount of Olives back then which those besieged within Jerusalem in AD 70 were able to witness.

There is no scripture which teaches anything about Christ returning to earth and then taking anyone to heaven with Him.

Yes, there is. Paul described in 1 Thess. 4:13-18 a return of Christ to earth to gather and catch up His resurrected saints in the clouds, AND to return to heaven with them, just as Christ promised the disciples in John 14:3.

What are you talking about here? Please show the scripture that you are basing this on and we can then discuss it.

Luke 12:35-48 (YLT) is Christ discussing His returns (PLURAL). "And ye like to men waiting for their lord, when he shall return out of the wedding FEASTS" (PLURAL), "that he having come and knocked, immediately they may open to him."

"And if he may come in the second watch AND in the third watch he may come and may find it so, happy are those servants." If Christ returned to find His servants faithfully watching on both of those occasions in the second and third watch, all those servants would be blessed and happy.

The plural wedding feasts in Luke 12:36 are similar to the shepherd Jacob (who served as a type of Christ), for whom there were two marriages - one to Leah, and one to Rachel. Rachel the first-chosen, beloved wife who died having Benjamin would represent the originally-favored nation of ethnic Israel who was given the Old Covenant promises. The power of that "holy people" was shattered in AD 70.

Leah who was not originally chosen or favored, but who was blessed by God with many more children than Rachel, would represent the believers coming from other originally-rejected Gentile nations who have multiplied far beyond the number of ethnic faithful Israelites - the children of "many nations" promised to faithful Abraham, as the stars of heaven for multitude.

 

[Davy]

In Daniel's image, there are no other one-world governments that successfully establish themselves once the "stone" kingdom of Christ strikes that image and reduces the entire thing to dust on the wind. That single blow was already struck back in AD 70. The "stone" kingdom is currently growing, as predicted, and will eventually fill the entire world with its effects. God's promise. ....

In the Daniel 2 beast image, all... of the previous pieces that represent the old beast kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, and the Roman empire, are all TOGETHER when the "stone" smites that beast on its feet of part iron and part clay, and Christ's eternal Kingdom is then setup. Never before in past history have ALL of those historical beast kingdoms been together as one under a one-world kingdom. As per Daniel 2:34-35 and Daniel 2:44-45, the feet of part iron mixed with part clay represents the FINAL beast kingdom with ten kings that will manifest in the days of Jesus' future coming. It represents the final 5th beast kingdom in the final generation that will see Christ's future return.

And that final 5th beast kingdom is the Revelation 13:1 one-world beast kingdom which globalists have been working towards with today's "one world government" movement. Whether one sees this being fulfilled now, or later, no matter; it will... come to pass just as God's Word declares.


Your declaration that the "stone" (Jesus) has already smitten the final beast kingdom on its feet of ten toes, with your idea that Christ's Kingdom is already being literally manifest on earth, is a false doctrine from men...

John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence."
KJV

As I have shown from God's Word before, this present world is ordained by God to be destroyed by fire (2 Peter 3); this present world can NEVER be the time of Christ's literal Kingdom to come. By those men you follow, they will lead you to bow to the coming Antichrist; which will be Satan himself here on this earth disguised as Lord Jesus Christ (like Jesus Himself and Apostle Paul warned His faithful Church).

 

[Davy]

I believe you and I would agree that Christ intentionally did not finish Isaiah 61's prophecy about the day of vengeance because this was coming in the future. But contrary to your expectation, it was NOT going to be in the distant future.

Have you never read Zechariah 9:9-10 which declare the 2 comings by Lord Jesus?

Zech 9:9-10
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

The above was about Christ's 1st coming, lowly as a Lamb to be sacrificed.

10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
KJV

But the above verse is about Christ's future 2nd coming on the "day of the Lord", which is the last day of this present world. Notice what it says.

At Christ's future 2nd coming above with verse 10, the battle bow will be cut off from Jerusalem, meaning all war is over. And that in 'red' is about the idea of Daniel 2:34-35 when the "stone" smites the final beast upon its ten toes, and Christ's Eternal Kingdom is setup on earth forever.

Likewise, the "day of vengeance" of Isaiah 61:2 which Jesus did NOT read at the start of His Ministry, per Luke 4, is because that vengeance is about that Zechariah 9:10 verse above, for Christ's future 2nd coming when He will setup His Eternal Kingdom upon this earth.

So the false doctrine of men you are listening to cannot... change what God's Word has declared about those TWO comings by Jesus Christ. It's bad enough that the false Pre-trib rapture doctrine tries to change those verses too, but it won't matter, God's Word as written is going to happen just like it says.

 

[Davy]

I agree with most of what you said but not Ezekiel 38-39.
Ezekiel 38-39 is post millinium.

I cannot agree with it being post-mill (meaning after Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20).

The Ezekiel 40-48 Chapters are all about Christ's future Millennial reign and into the new heavens and a new earth timing. The Ezekiel 38 & 39 Chapters happen just prior to that, and is about a time immediately prior to Christ's future 2nd coming.

Ezekiel 38 gives us the nation alignment of the armies out of the northern quarters that will come upon Israel on the last day of this world just prior to Christ's return. That nation alignment today is almost complete, lacking only the nation of Turkey joining it (represented by old Togarmah which was the region of old Capadocia). Turkey is an Islamic nation, even though it is a member of NATO.

Ezekiel 39 includes verses about God's gathering of the tribes of Israel back to the holy land, which 1948 was mainly about the Jews returning, and not all the 12 tribes of Israel.


Here is Scripture in Ezekiel 39 that you appear to have missed...

Ezek 39:22-29
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

In Ezekiel 3, God told Ezekiel that He made Ezekiel a 'watchman' to the "house of Israel". That is very important to note, because in Solomon's day God split the old nation of Israel into 2 separate kingdoms, with the "house of Israel" representing only... the ten northern tribes of Israel.

So Ezekiel, who was captive with the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" to Babylon, was told to go among the ten tribe "house of Israel" which were captive by the Assyrians about 120 years earlier, and were just a little ways north of Babylon. Thus God said He made Ezekiel a prophet to the ten tribes still captive in northern Assyria.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against Me, therefore hid I My face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid My face from them.

Did the Jews forget God during their captivites? No. Nor have the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" ever forgotten their heritage as part of old Israel. But the ten northern tribes did forget their heritage as part of old Israel, and they forgot God's feast days, and the new moons, and God's sabbaths, even as God revealed they would in the Book of Hosea. God scattered the ten tribes in captivity to Assyria first (2 Kings 17). And that is what the above Ezekiel 39:23 verse is about.


25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for My holy name;

When that label, "the whole house of Israel" is used, it means all 12 tribes of Israel. Same thing when "Jacob" title is used, put for all 12 tribes. That gathering above has NOT happened yet today. The future gathering of all 12 tribes includes their inhabiting the lands promised to their fathers, which today much of it is inhabited by Ishmael's people (Arabs).

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against Me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

That above especially is about the final gathering of all 12 tribes of Israel back to the holy lands in the future when Jesus returns. As of right now, the majority of those in the nation of Israel today are Jews from the 3-tribe southern "kingdom of Judah" (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and a small remnant of the ten tribes that left when Jeroboam setup idol worship in the northern lands). The ten northern tribes were not known as Jews, as that title comes from the tribe of Judah, and was taken by all living in Judea in the southern lands (per the Jewish historian Josephus).

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, Which cause them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide My face any more from them: for I have poured out My spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
KJV

That will only happen with Christ's future return on the "day of the Lord", the last day of this present world.

 

[Davy]

Symbolic language is easy to recognize because the predicate doesn't naturally follow from the subject. For instance, the Book of Revelation depicts a sword coming out of Jesus's mouth. Since men don't normally carry swords in their mouths or hold a sword in their mouths, the reader knows that the words are intended to represent something about Jesus symbolically.

Contrary to that, Joel mentions several species of locusts and records them doing what locusts usually do. The palmerworm, cankerworm, and caterpillar are real insects. They typically strip vegetation from trees, bushes, and crops. Starvation and thirst are the natural results of crop devastation and ruin. The reader understands that Joel speaks literally since the subject and predicate talk about natural, expected behaviors.

Since you appear to be an expert on "symbolic language", then how is it that you missed the simplicity of God's Word in Joel 1 that uses the locust as a 'symbol' for that "nation" He mentions??


Joel 1:4-7
4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.

5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.

6 For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.

7 He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
KJV

 

[tailgator]

I cannot agree with it being post-mill (meaning after Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20).

The Ezekiel 40-48 Chapters are all about Christ's future Millennial reign and into the new heavens and a new earth timing. The Ezekiel 38 & 39 Chapters happen just prior to that, and is about a time immediately prior to Christ's future 2nd coming.

Ezekiel 38 gives us the nation alignment of the armies out of the northern quarters that will come upon Israel on the last day of this world just prior to Christ's return. That nation alignment today is almost complete, lacking only the nation of Turkey joining it (represented by old Togarmah which was the region of old Capadocia). Turkey is an Islamic nation, even though it is a member of NATO.

Ezekiel 39 includes verses about God's gathering of the tribes of Israel back to the holy land, which 1948 was mainly about the Jews returning, and not all the 12 tribes of Israel.


Here is Scripture in Ezekiel 39 that you appear to have missed...

Ezek 39:22-29
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

In Ezekiel 3, God told Ezekiel that He made Ezekiel a 'watchman' to the "house of Israel". That is very important to note, because in Solomon's day God split the old nation of Israel into 2 separate kingdoms, with the "house of Israel" representing only... the ten northern tribes of Israel.

So Ezekiel, who was captive with the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" to Babylon, was told to go among the ten tribe "house of Israel" which were captive by the Assyrians about 120 years earlier, and were just a little ways north of Babylon. Thus God said He made Ezekiel a prophet to the ten tribes still captive in northern Assyria.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against Me, therefore hid I My face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid My face from them.

Did the Jews forget God during their captivites? No. Nor have the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" ever forgotten their heritage as part of old Israel. But the ten northern tribes did forget their heritage as part of old Israel, and they forgot God's feast days, and the new moons, and God's sabbaths, even as God revealed they would in the Book of Hosea. God scattered the ten tribes in captivity to Assyria first (2 Kings 17). And that is what the above Ezekiel 39:23 verse is about.


25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for My holy name;

When that label, "the whole house of Israel" is used, it means all 12 tribes of Israel. Same thing when "Jacob" title is used, put for all 12 tribes. That gathering above has NOT happened yet today. The future gathering of all 12 tribes includes their inhabiting the lands promised to their fathers, which today much of it is inhabited by Ishmael's people (Arabs).

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against Me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

That above especially is about the final gathering of all 12 tribes of Israel back to the holy lands in the future when Jesus returns. As of right now, the majority of those in the nation of Israel today are Jews from the 3-tribe southern "kingdom of Judah" (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and a small remnant of the ten tribes that left when Jeroboam setup idol worship in the northern lands). The ten northern tribes were not known as Jews, as that title comes from the tribe of Judah, and was taken by all living in Judea in the southern lands (per the Jewish historian Josephus).

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, Which cause them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide My face any more from them: for I have poured out My spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
KJV

That will only happen with Christ's future return on the "day of the Lord", the last day of this present world.

The dead are resurected out of their graves in Ezekiel 37.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,


Messiah reigns in Ezekiel 37

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.



Gog invades Israel after the 1000 year reign when Israel dwells safely .

Ezekiel 38

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.



Ezekiel 37-38 is talking about the same resurrection and the same Gog as revelation 20.

Unless your trying to say that Benjamin netanyahu shall reign forever,I think you have to admit Ezekiel 37:24-25 can only be speaking of Jesus.

 

[3 Resurrections]

As per Daniel 2:34-35 and Daniel 2:44-45, the feet of part iron mixed with part clay represents the FINAL beast kingdom with ten kings that will manifest in the days of Jesus' future coming. It represents the final 5th beast kingdom in the final generation that will see Christ's future return.

You are not correct on the identification of the CLAY in the feet of Daniel's statue. Isaiah 64:8 tells us who the CLAY was. Speaking of his own people, the ethnic nation of Israel, Isaiah said, "But now, O Lord, thou art our father; WE ARE THE CLAY, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand."

The CLAY of the nation of Israel became blended with the IRON of the Roman empire in the feet of Daniel's statue when Pompey subjugated the independent nation of Israel to Rome and put it under tribute in 63 BC. Just as the materials of iron and clay don't blend together naturally, Rome and Judea was a very unstable combination, because of the Zealot insurrectionists who resented a pagan empire controlling their nation. This blend of Roman "IRON" and Judean "CLAY" only lasted until AD 66 when the Zealots launched the war against Rome.

Never before in past history have ALL of those historical beast kingdoms been together as one under a one-world kingdom.

This SIMULTANEOUS destruction of Daniel's entire statue speaks of destroying a single element common to all those former pagan empires - namely, the Satanic realm which had operated behind the scenes of government within all those pagan empires ever since the ancient Chaldean empire, trying to disrupt God's redemptive plans for the nations. God struck the Satanic realm a single blow in AD 70 and destroyed all its members utterly so that they existed no more. Satan as the former "Prince of the kingdoms of this world" lost his existence then, and those confiscated kingdom powers were the "many crowns" which the returning Christ was wearing in Revelation 19:12.

This destruction of the entire Satanic realm was something that God in Hebrews 12:26-27 had "NOW" promised to that first-century generation that He would soon be shaking and REMOVING from this world, so that the unshaken kingdom of heaven would be left standing alone without any rival. This shaking and removal process of the evil Satanic realm from this world is in the ancient past, and not in our future.

10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

We are not waiting for God to "speak peace unto the heathen" as in this already-fulfilled Zechariah 9:10 verse. God already broke down the middle wall of partition between Jew and Gentile. In the "One New Man" reality of the New Covenant, there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female, etc., but in Christ, we are all one without respect of persons or class distinctions.

As I have shown from God's Word before, this present world is ordained by God to be destroyed by fire (2 Peter 3);

1 Peter 4:7 wrote concerning his own days that, "the end of all things is AT HAND". That end which Peter said was then "AT HAND" in his days has long since been fulfilled. That fiery destruction of the earth was the AD 66-70 years when the cities of the land of Israel were being put to the torch by the invading Roman armies. The works in the land of Israel were burned up - literally - especially in the city of Jerusalem which was turned into Lake of Fire conditions for the city's second death, similar to the time the Babylonians burned everything down in 586 BC.

At Christ's future 2nd coming above with verse 10, the battle bow will be cut off from Jerusalem, meaning all war is over. And that in 'red' is about the idea of Daniel 2:34-35 when the "stone" smites the final beast upon its ten toes, and Christ's Eternal Kingdom is setup on earth forever.

The stone striking Daniel's image on the feet and then growing in size afterward until it fills the whole earth requires that human history on earth continues to flow after that single blow is struck. This single blow by the "stone" cannot possibly take place at the end of the world, because there has to be time AFTERWARD for the "stone" to grow in size until it fills the whole earth.

Christ's kingdom IS set up in the world already since His AD 70 return, and the "stone" kingdom has continually been growing in size since then. Even the gates of hell cannot withstand its effects, as Christ promised. Let alone any government establish by man.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Since you appear to be an expert on "symbolic language", then how is it that you missed the simplicity of God's Word in Joel 1 that uses the locust as a 'symbol' for that "nation" He mentions??

The term "nation" is symbolic for the Locusts. Not the other way around.

 

[PinSeeker]

Goodness gracious. Such wild-eyed speculations and ramblings. Looks like another... "fun"... thread.

Grace and peace to you all.