LOCUSTS From The Book of JOEL

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well, that is okay. I probably reacted too quickly and skimmed your post too quickly.

However, what I said that the Locusts will be the judged kings of the earth at Armageddon in around 20 years' time is true. The king that they have over them is "Abaddon," and the Greek root has the meaning of the destroying Angel in the Abyss who is none other than Satan. From scripture we read that Satan does have the ability to influence people to be his servants and subjects.

Shalom

He's not really their king. He is the king of the other fallen angels, though. That's why scripture refers to "his angels" (Matthew 25:41, Rev 12:9). I do agree that Abaddon is Satan, though.

 

[TribulationSigns]

He's not really their king. He is the king of the other fallen angels, though. That's why scripture refers to "his angels" (Matthew 25:41, Rev 12:9). I do agree that Abaddon is Satan, though.

There is no such thing as "fallen angels." Rather they are fallen messengers. The human messengers with the spirit of the antichrist. They are the false prophets and christs whom Satan is their king while we are the true messengers, with Jesus as our King. Nothing to do with the traditional view of spiritual beings like angels or demons.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is no such thing as "fallen angels." Rather they are fallen messengers. The human messengers with the spirit of the antichrist. They are the false prophets and christs whom Satan is their king while we are the true messengers, with Jesus as our King. Nothing to do with the traditional view of spiritual beings like angels or demons.

Do you not believe in the existence of angels?

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

How do you interpret this verse? You see this as a battle between human messengers in heaven?

 

[Jay Ross]

He's not really their king. He is the king of the other fallen angels, though.

If some entity has influence over other entities, then the influencing entity is lording it over the other entities. In Daniel 8 the little horn is given human armies and people to trample God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts for 2,300 years. In effect the Little Horn is acting like a king/vassal over the people he is given who become his armies to do with as he pleases. However, the Little Horn is subservient to Satan and Satan lords it over the beasts and the Little Horn.

Then at the end of the 2,300 years the heavenly hosts will be judged in heaven and the kings of the earth will be judged on the earth at Armageddon, and together they will be gathered together and imprisoned in a cistern/pit for many days to await the time of their punishment. (Isaiah 24:21-22)

In Rev 9 the first entities that come up out of the Bottomless pit are the judged kings of the earth that had been imprisoned in the Bottomless pit with their king Satan and the vassal heavenly hosts that have exercised influence and control over parts of the sea of humanity.

A vassal acts as the representative of their king who has given them power to act on his behalf within the domain that they exercise their dominion over.

Because of the description of the Locusts provided in Rev 9 I am confident in my understanding that the Locusts are the judged kings of the earth who had been imprisoned in the Bottomless pIt at the same time as the judged heavenly hosts.

Goodbye

 

[Keraz]

Why would you think that the sun would be involved in the fire that comes down on the earth instead of thinking that it will come down similarly to how it did on Sodom and Gomorrah, which was supernaturally from God Himself and not from the sun?

Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;

Because the Prophecy in Isaiah 30:26-30 specifically tells us how God will cause the sun to explode and cause damage to the earth.

I have been to Tel Hammam, the site of ancient Sodom. There is a volcanic ash layer over the city, or as some experts say: a meteor explosion there which flattened and burned Sodom and Gomorrah.
It was not supernatural and the Sixth Seal disaster will not be supernatural either, so as people can still deny God and follow the 'beast'.

 

[Douggg]

Because of the description of the Locusts provided in Rev 9 I am confident in my understanding that the Locusts are the judged kings of the earth who had been imprisoned in the Bottomless pIt at the same time as the judged heavenly hosts.

Jay, the locust creatures have tails with stingers in them. That does not describe human beings.

 

[Douggg]

He's not really their king. He is the king of the other fallen angels, though. That's why scripture refers to "his angels" (Matthew 25:41, Rev 12:9). I do agree that Abaddon is Satan, though.

The plague of the flesh tormenting locust lasts 5 months. So those locust creatures die off after 5 months. They are not angels. That is not to say, however, that there won't be fallen angels released from the bottomless pit at the same time.

Abaddon is an angel. But he is not Satan. Satan is the star that falls from heaven in Revelation 9:1.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, the locust creatures have tails with stingers in them. That does not describe human beings.

As usual you jump to the conclusions that the translators have presented you with, without any further research on your part.

My understanding of the meaning of G2759 is: -

G:2759 κέντρον kentron (ken'-tron); from kenteo (to prick); a point ("centre"), i.e. a sting (figuratively, poison) or goad (figuratively, divine impulse): –– KJV - prick, sting.
Copied while using PC Study bible software.

[b}Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2759: κέντρον{/b]

κέντρον, κέντρου, τό (κεντέω to prick);
1. a sting, as that of bees (4 Macc. 14:19), scorpions, locusts, Revelation 9:10. Since animals wound by their sting and even cause death, Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:55 (after Hosea 13:14, the Sept.) attributes to death, personified, a κέντρον, i. e. a deadly weapon, and that κέντρον is said to be ἡ ἁμαρτία (56), because sin is death's cause and punishment (?) (Romans 5:12).

2. as in the Greek writings an iron goad, for urging on oxen, horses and other beasts of burden; hence, the proverb πρός κέντρα λακτίζειν, to kick against the goad, i. e. to offer vain and perilous or ruinous resistance: Acts 9:5 Rec.; ; cf. Pindar Pythagoras 2, 173; Aeschylus (Ag. 1624, cf.) Prom. 323; Euripides, Bacch. 795; Terent. Phorm. 1, 2, 28; Ammian. 18, 5.

THAYER'S GREEK LEXICON, Electronic Database.
Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2006, 2011 by Biblesoft, Inc.
All rights reserved. Used by permission. BibleSoft.com

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The Locusts were to goad the people who did not have the seal of God on them. Why were the locusts allowed to goad/sting the people who did not have the seal of God upon them? They were being goaded to turn once more towards God but they desired death more and did not turn back to God.

Let us consider what Rev 9 tells us about the Locusts: -

3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.

7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle.

In the passage quoted we are given three witnesses in the text to confirm that the Locusts had three features that clearly confirmed that they were human.

The sting in their "tail" was a goad to them which they kicked against.

Douggg, do not hang you hat on just one witness.

Goodbye

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because the Prophecy in Isaiah 30:26-30 specifically tells us how God will cause the sun to explode and cause damage to the earth.

I have been to Tel Hammam, the site of ancient Sodom. There is a volcanic ash layer over the city, or as some experts say: a meteor explosion there which flattened and burned Sodom and Gomorrah.
It was not supernatural and the Sixth Seal disaster will not be supernatural either, so as people can still deny God and follow the 'beast'.

Do you not believe that God could supernaturally send fire down upon the earth if He wants to? I totally disagree with your belief about what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah. The scripture says the fire came down from heaven, not from a volcano.

Revelation 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Do you not think the fire coming down from heaven described in this verse will come down supernaturally from God, either?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The plague of the flesh tormenting locust lasts 5 months. So those locust creatures die off after 5 months. They are not angels. That is not to say, however, that there won't be fallen angels released from the bottomless pit at the same time.

Again, it says that their king is the angel of the bottomless pit. How can the king of literal locust creatures be an angel? Why would you assume you should take something like that literally in a book that contains so much symbolism? I'll never understand that.

Abaddon is an angel. But he is not Satan. Satan is the star that falls from heaven in Revelation 9:1.

Satan goes by other names than just Satan in scripture. He is called "Abaddon" in this case to describe him as being a destroyer, which he is. It describes the king of the bottomless pit as being an angel. So, what else would he be king over except other angels? And scripture describes Satan as being in charge of the other fallen angels. It describes them as "his angels" (Matt 25:41, Rev 12:9).

 

[Douggg]

7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle.

In the passage quoted we are given three witnesses in the text to confirm that the Locusts had three features that clearly confirmed that they were human.

The sting in their "tail" was a goad to them which they kicked against.

Douggg, do not hang you hat on just one witness.

Human beings also don't have wings.

 

[Douggg]

Satan goes by other names than just Satan in scripture. He is called "Abaddon" in this case to describe him as being a destroyer, which he is. It describes the king of the bottomless pit as being an angel. So, what else would he be king over except other angels? And scripture describes Satan as being in charge of the other fallen angels. It describes them as "his angels" (Matt 25:41, Rev 12:9).

Satan unlocks the bottomless pit. differently, Abaddon emerges from the bottomless pit, once Satan unlocks it.

The angels in Revelation 12:7-9, Satan's angels, will be cast down to the earth. Those angels are not coming out of the bottomless pit.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Satan unlocks the bottomless pit. differently, Abaddon emerges from the bottomless pit, once Satan unlocks it.

Is it not Satan that unlocks the bottomless pit.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

The angel who has the key to the bottomless pit is not Satan or a fallen angel as the above passage makes clear. So, Revelation 9 should be understood with that in mind.

The angels in Revelation 12:7-9, Satan's angels, will be cast down to the earth.

Already happened long ago. Satan, who formerly accused believers day and night in heaven was cast out and could no longer do that again.

 

[Douggg]

Is it not Satan that unlocks the bottomless pit.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

The angel who has the key to the bottomless pit is not Satan or a fallen angel as the above passage makes clear. So, Revelation 9 should be understood with that in mind.

The angel in Revelation 20:1 is not cast down to earth.

The angel in Revelation 9:1 does not "come down from heaven", but instead is fallen from heaven unto the earth. That angel is Satan cast down to earth.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[Jay Ross]

Human beings also don't have wings.

Yes, and John described planes as being like foul frogs, but people still have not "discovered" the link between the Sixth Bowl judgement and the 9/11/01 event.

You are grasping at straws to try and prove your theories. At this present time, it is difficult for us to understand what John was describing when he was describing the physical attributes of the locusts he was seeing, but there are three clues provided that strongly suggests that they are human beings.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

The angel in Revelation 20:1 is not cast down to earth.

The angel in Revelation 9:1 does not "come down from heaven", but instead is fallen from heaven unto the earth. That angel is Satan cast down to earth.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Douggg, give it a rest, the Angel that fell to earth in Rev 9 was sent by God to unlock the Bottomless pit. Rev 9 tells us that the destroyer, Satan was locked up in the Pit.

Please understand, Douggg, that the prophecies in the Book of Revelation are not presented to us in linear way but in order of them being seen, understood and recorded by John. John was jumping back and forth in time as he was shown the prophetic visions in the spirit. This is one of the reasons that the Book of Revelation is difficult to piece together and you are apply demonstrating this.

Goodbye.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The angel in Revelation 20:1 is not cast down to earth.

The angel in Revelation 9:1 does not "come down from heaven", but instead is fallen from heaven unto the earth. That angel is Satan cast down to earth.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Is that a literal star that's falling? No. Neither the star nor the falling should be taken literally. John is just relaying what he saw in a vision, which looked like a falling star. That simply represents an angel coming down from heaven to earth. Plus, there couldn't be any fallen angels at that point since they were already cast out of heaven long ago.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

You are trying to relate unrelated scriptures. The fact of the matter is that the only type of angel that is ever said to have the key to the bottomless pit in scripture is one of God's angels (Rev 20:1) and not a fallen angel. That tells me that only God's angels are allowed to have the key to the bottomless pit, which makes a lot of sense. Why would God give a fallen angel that kind of power? He wouldn't.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, give it a rest, the Angel that fell to earth in Rev 9 was sent by God to unlock the Bottomless pit. Rev 9 tells us that the destroyer, Satan was locked up in the Pit.

The angel in Revelation 9:1 did not descend from heaven, sent by God to unlock the bottomless pit. The angel fell - cast down to earth.

Satan is not yet in the bottomless pit. Satan will not be in the bottomless pit, until Jesus returns.

Please understand, Douggg, that the prophecies in the Book of Revelation are not presented to us in linear way but in order of them being seen, understood and recorded by John. John was jumping back and forth in time as he was shown the prophetic visions in the spirit. This is one of the reasons that the Book of Revelation is difficult to piece together and you are apply demonstrating this.

I have made a diagram of the 15 time frames of the end times given in bible. And have yet to see any other poster make a similar diagram, where they think the placement of the time frames go.

 

[Douggg]

Is that a literal star that's falling? No. Neither the star nor the falling should be taken literally. John is just relaying what he saw in a vision, which looked like a falling star. That simply represents an angel coming down from heaven to earth.

Not coming down from heaven to earth, but falling from heaven to earth. The star is not literal, but the angel Satan cast down to earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The angel in Revelation 9:1 did not descend from heaven, sent by God to unlock the bottomless pit. The angel fell - cast down to earth.

Doug, do you understand that it would be up to God to decide who can have the key to the bottomless pit? In Revelation 20:1, it is an angel of God with the key. Why would God ever allow Satan to have that key? I believe that makes no sense and that it's clearly only meant for an angel of God to have that key and not Satan or any other fallen angel.