LOCUSTS From The Book of JOEL

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not coming down from heaven to earth, but falling from heaven to earth. The star is not literal, but the angel Satan cast down to earth.

Not only is the star not literal, but neither is the falling. A non-literal star can't literally fall.

Another scripture talks about a harlot sitting on many waters (Revelation 17:1). Should we only see the harlot as symbolic, but the sitting on many waters as literal? Can a symbolic entity literally sit? Of course not. Neither can a symbolic entity, like the star in Revelation 9:1, literally fall from heaven. The onus is on you to show that it's possible for a fallen angel to be given the key of the bottomless pit, keeping in mind that only God can give that key to someone. The only other verse we have of someone being given that key is when it's given to an angel of God. That should tell you something, but you seem to ignore that.

 

[Douggg]

You are trying to relate unrelated scriptures. The fact of the matter is that the only type of angel that is ever said to have the key to the bottomless pit in scripture is one of God's angels (Rev 20:1) and not a fallen angel. That tells me that only God's angels are allowed to have the key to the bottomless pit, which makes a lot of sense. Why would God give a fallen angel that kind of power? He wouldn't.

Because when Satan and his angels battle Michael and his angels, Satan's group loses. And on his way cast down to earth, Satan is tossed the key to the bottomless pit to open, because the time of them in the bottomless pit, the demons and evil angels, judgement has come as well.

I want you to go to Revelation 20:14, a thousand years later and right before the Great White Throne judgment.

20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Why does it not say the bottomless pit was cast into the lake of fire ? It is because in Revelation 9 the bottomless pit is emptied out. And them who come out, all the fallen angels and demons, will be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus's return.

When Satan gets thrown into the bottomless pit, he will be the only one there. And when he is released after the 1000 years, he is not accompanied by anyone else, because there will be no-one else in the bottomless pit except him. The bottomless pit prison will no longer exist once Satan is loosed for a short time.

 

[Davy]

False accusation. Where did you get the idea after I quoted Scripture and explained coming from the "synagogue of Satan?" No biblical refutation from you. You are making a statement like this because you did not like what you heard but not able to prove biblically that I was wrong. Just rants.

Not false at all, because your claim you explained the Ezekiel 28 Scripture about the "king of Tyrus" you only reverted to bogus article that tried to force a flesh born king into God's Garden of Eden. Thus now you're making ANOTHER false claim by saying you quoting it, when it's obvious you don't have a clue what it means...

Ezek 28:12-14
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
KJV

No flesh born man has ever been in God's Garden of Eden. Nor does Adam himself account for that, since Adam was not born of woman. Nor is any flesh born king a "cherub" which instead is a heavenly created being.

So I did not lie when I said you haven't been given eyes to see, and ears to hear in order to understand about that parable there about Satan in Ezekiel 28.

 

[Davy]

You simply have the wrong time frame.

Nope. It's you that has the wrong time frame for the Rev.9 locusts, simply because you're not staying in God's Word, but instead are heeding men's doctrines, which sounds like the seminary doctrine called Preterism, or Historicism, which both wrongly believe that most of the Book of Revelation was already fulfilled back in history.

The 5th trumpet judgment is included within the Revelation 1:3 and 22:10 time markers that limit John's entire book of visions. The introduction and the conclusion to the book tell us how to interpret everything between those two "bookends". ALL those visions related to future events both John and the interpreting angel said were "at hand" for John's own generation. The background scenery was already in place, and the events prophesied were then starting to play out - in John's own generation. Revelation was not written describing the end of this present world. It was written for the end of the AGE that saw the destruction of Judea's cities, especially Jerusalem, its temple, and the entire temple worship system.

That's the biggest bunch of malarkey I've ever heard. Rev.1 says nothing about the 5th trumpet, nor the events of the 5th trumpet. Your statement about of what the introduction does is even more... ludicrous!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Do you not believe in the existence of angels?

Yes. But the problem is how we were taught about the angels (and demons) for years. Allow me to explain...

The "Bible" NEVER said that Michael was an Angel or a Arch or Chief Angel. It is MAN who has translated the Bible said that. What many may not understand is those are man's words, not something actually found in the divine and infallible Scriptures. For example, Christ is not the "Angel" of the Covenant, He is the "Messenger" of the Covenant. Moreover, shall the fact that translators of the Bible say not only that Michael was an Angel, but translated God and Christ as Angels as well, prove God or Christ an Angel? Huh?! And they weren't Angels, were they? No, it was the translations that went wrong. That should be your first clue that the actual word is NOT Angel. Since we all know neither God the father, nor God the Son is a Angel. THEREFORE, the translation of the Hebrew word [mal'ak] or Greek word [aggelos] (both mean messenger) as Angel is incorrect, isn't it? Now an angel "can be" a Messenger of God, but [mal'ak] and [aggelos] are absolutely 100% not the word "Angel!" Now let compare the two translations:

DRB
Malachi 3:1 (John 1:6-13)

• Behold I send my angel [mal'ak], and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.

YLT
Malachi 3:1 (John 1:6-13)
Lo, I am sending My messenger [mal'ak], And he hath prepared a way before Me, And suddenly come in unto his temple Doth the Lord whom ye are seeking, Even the messenger of the covenant, Whom ye are desiring, Lo, he is coming, said Jehovah of Hosts.

Why does one translation translate this word Angel and another translate it Messenger? Because the YLT translator LITERALLY rendered (transliterated) it to the actual word/meaning that was in the Scriptures, and the DRB translater is making a presumption and translated it Angel, despite both the clear meaning of the word itself, the context and content that clearly negates such a translation. In short, the Hebrew word in Old Testament Scripture is mal'ak (messenger) and decidedly not a Greek word Angel. Neither is the Greek word in the New Testament Angel, but [aggelos], also meaning messenger. So by any sound, sober, scholarly examination of the Biblical facts, Michael is never called a chief angel in the original manuscripts, but the chief Messenger, which is actually Jesus Christ Himself!

The Bible actually says Michael was the Chief Messenger. I accept that as infallible truth.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

How do you interpret this verse? You see this as a battle between human messengers in heaven?

Good questions.

When you read Revelation 12:1-2, where Michael and his angel fought against Satan and his angels, you may assume that this battle must take place in literal heaven where woman float?! No! We need to get the woman and heaven part first before determining who Michael, Satan, and their messengers are.

The woman in Heaven symbolizes the CONGREGATION. The heaven symbolizes the kingdom of heaven where woman dwells! Not in outer space or where God is. God is talking about His congregation ON EARTH where messengers dwells! There are two groups of human messengers on Earth. One belongs to Christ, Michael himself! And others are under the influence of Satan. This where the kingdom of heaven really is. Consider wisely:

Mat 11:10-12
(10) For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
(11) Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
(12) And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

This was the violence in view. The woman represented the Old Testament congregation in the days of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. That was when she was travailing in birth and it is talking about the pains that the Old Testament congregation was going through at the time before Christ was born. In other words, Israel was in a state of trouble. Why? Because her paths were crooked (meaning that they weren't taking the straight and narrow), and the prophets and priests like the Pharisees and the Scribes, were all gone out of the way. So we read that the Kingdom of Heaven suffered violence until John, a messenger, and the violence take it by force. John prophesied to making the crooked straight and prepared the way for the Lord. This is a time of apostasy and trouble in Israel and they pained to be delivered (Jeremiah 4:31). This Child's birth is the only thing that could deliver HER (congregation Israel) so that her joy could be fulfilled. It is because the violence that the Kingdom suffered becasue of Satan will come to an end, at the cross!

So we are talking about Old Testament congregation here and the messengers within are people who followed Christ and Satan. Not some literal angels fighting in heaven with laser beams or something!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Not false at all

Yes, big time.

because your claim you explained the Ezekiel 28 Scripture about the "king of Tyrus" you only reverted to bogus article that tried to force a flesh born king into God's Garden of Eden.

I doubt that you actually read the article to begin with which you made more false assumptions below:

Thus now you're making ANOTHER false claim by saying you quoting it, when it's obvious you don't have a clue what it means...

Ezek 28:12-14
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
KJV

Read the article. It explains Ezek 28:12-14. Because obviously you are reading into the text, thinking God is talking about literal angel when God actually talked about FALLEN MAN.

It illustrates original man in Adam, created good (Genesis 1:26-27) in the image/likeness of God before the fall. Man, as he was created without sin, but who has fallen in Adam, losing the glory of the likeness of God he was created with. Thus because of his fall and our inheritance of his spirit of bondage to disobedience, we are all subject to death. But thanks to our God, that full glory of God's image can be restored in Christ Jesus. Thus He is often referred to as the second Adam.
1st Corinthians 15:20-22

• "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
• For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
• For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

Now we can see the spiritual darkness begin to clear as we can see more of the picture. We were 'all' created in the image of God in Adam. The sin of Adam separated man from that image of God. And in the process, it separated all of us in generations to follow from that likeness. It was man who was perfect in the mountain (Kingdom) of God. But sin was found in us, and we all died in Adam (1st Corinthians 15:20-22) and are come under judgment as surely as King Tyrus had. And except we are restored to the image of God that 'man' had in the garden, we remain fallen and subject to the wrath of God. The king of Tyrus is man directly from the loins of Adam, who can only be restored to the image of God, in the second Adam, which is Christ.
Romans 8:29

• "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

It should be self-evident that (according to scripture) it was man (Adam) and not angels who were in the Garden of Eden where every precious stone was his covering. It was Adam who was the anointed Cherub that covereth upon the Holy mountain of God because He was the very image/likeness of the Glory of God. It was Adam who walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (in the presence of God) in that Garden. In point of fact, the very name "Tyrus" means a stone. So it's quite obvious to me what is being illustrated here. It was in Adam that man was in the image of God and perfect in all his ways in the garden from the day that he was created, until iniquity was found in him (the fall). And the fall of the king of Tyrus in his sinfulness "personifies" this fall from God's image by Adam. God is illustrating to fallen man that we qualify by attempting to be like God in eating of the tree of knowledge without wisdom. Man qualifies for "all" that we read in Ezekiel 28:12-16. But Angels do not qualify. We interpret scripture by scripture, not by popular assumptions. And not once do we read of angels in the Garden of Eden. Not once do we read of angels falling in the Garden of Eden. Not once do we read of angels being corrupted because of knowledge. Not once do we read of angels defiling their sanctuaries by the multitude of their iniquities. On the contrary, we read of man in the garden, man was perfect there from the time he was created, and man is the one who fell there. And let's not forget, did not God say these very things of Adam?

Genesis 3:22

• "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"

It is man who was corrupted because of knowledge, not angels. Hello?!

No flesh born man has ever been in God's Garden of Eden.

Nor does Adam himself account for that, since Adam was not born of woman. Nor is any flesh born king a "cherub" which instead is a heavenly created being.

So I did not lie when I said you haven't been given eyes to see, and ears to hear in order to understand about that parable there about Satan in Ezekiel 28.

You do not make sense with all the rants. Sorry!

 

[Davy]

I doubt that you actually read the article to begin with which you made more false assumptions below:

I have The Word of God as my witness. Don't need that article which goes against the Scripture.

Read the article.

No, read your Bible, if you have one. They are free online if you don't have one.

It illustrates original man in Adam, created good (Genesis 1:26-27) in the image/likeness of God before the fall. Man, as he was created without sin, but who has fallen in Adam, losing the glory of the likeness of God he was created with. Thus because of his fall and our inheritance of his spirit of bondage to disobedience, we are all subject to death. But thanks to our God, that full glory of God's image can be restored in Christ Jesus. Thus He is often referred to as the second Adam.
1st Corinthians 15:20-22

• "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
• For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
• For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

That's WAY OUT IN LEFT FIELD, totally irrelevant to the parable God gave in Ezekiel 28 about Satan before he fell, and after he fell. Here the subject has been about God's parable in Ezekiel 28 about Satan, and you're busy talking about Adam's sin.

And the "last Adam" of 1 Corinthians 15:45 is about Jesus, not Adam...

1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
KJV

Notice that in red is in Past tense. That's because Jesus at His resurrection is Who that "made a quickening spirit" is about. That idea is repeated in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 and here...

1 Cor 15:47
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
KJV


What you obviously do not understand is, that the ORIGINAL FIRST SIN was by Lucifer in the beginning, when he coveted God's Throne in wanting to be The GOD. And because you don't understand that, it means you dwell in a very small 'bubble' of your own imagination.

1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
KJV

 

[TribulationSigns]

I have The Word of God as my witness. Don't need that article which goes against the Scripture.

First, you may read the Word of God but the question is do you really understand it, spiritually discerned? And the article has tons of Scripture than you think. Go read.

No, read your Bible, if you have one. They are free online if you don't have one.

Well, what is good if you read the Bible yet you do not understanding the locusts of Revelation 9 if you do not have spiritual discerned? Many professed Christians are like that.

That's WAY OUT IN LEFT FIELD, totally irrelevant to the parable God gave in Ezekiel 28 about Satan before he fell, and after he fell. Here the subject has been about God's parable in Ezekiel 28 about Satan, and you're busy talking about Adam's sin.

And the "last Adam" of 1 Corinthians 15:45 is about Jesus, not Adam...

I can see that you overreacted before you finished reading. LOL. Where did I say that the last Adam is Adam?! Read again carefully what I wrote:

It illustrates original man in Adam, created good (Genesis 1:26-27) in the image/likeness of God before the fall. Man, as he was created without sin, but who has fallen in Adam, losing the glory of the likeness of God he was created with. Thus because of his fall and our inheritance of his spirit of bondage to disobedience, we are all subject to death. But thanks to our God, that full glory of God's image can be restored in Christ Jesus. Thus He is often referred to as the second Adam.​

1st Corinthians 15:20-22​

​

• "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
• For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
• For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

What you obviously do not understand is, that the ORIGINAL FIRST SIN was by Lucifer in the beginning, when he coveted God's Throne in wanting to be The GOD. And because you don't understand that, it means you dwell in a very small 'bubble' of your own imagination.

1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
KJV

No, it is you who do NOT understand. Like many Christians, you were reading "devil" as "Satan" as if he is separate entity apart from Adam. Not at all! It is all sinners (all unsaved people) who are ORIGINALLY ruled by the SPIRIT of the DEVIL. It is our own spirit of disobedience that we all receive from Adam - his spirit! So read the Scripture again in context:

1st John 3:8-9

• "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
• Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

See, there are only two spirits on Earth. The Spirit of Devil (Spirit of disobedience of man) and Spirit of God (Holy Spirit). We all have the devil within us since we were born because we had the spirit of disobedience. Not being devil-possessed as most supposed!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because when Satan and his angels battle Michael and his angels, Satan's group loses. And on his way cast down to earth, Satan is tossed the key to the bottomless pit to open, because the time of them in the bottomless pit, the demons and evil angels, judgement has come as well.

That's a made up story. I see no evidence to suggest that any angel except for an angel of God would ever be given the key to the bottomless pit.

I want you to go to Revelation 20:14, a thousand years later and right before the Great White Throne judgment.

20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Why does it not say the bottomless pit was cast into the lake of fire ? It is because in Revelation 9 the bottomless pit is emptied out.

That coincides with Satan being loosed from the bottomless pit. The locusts symbolically represent fallen angels and Abaddon represents Satan. The fifth trumpet is when Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit along with his angels.

And them who come out, all the fallen angels and demons, will be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus's return.

Are you now saying you believe the locusts represent fallen angels instead of literal "locust creatures"?

When Satan gets thrown into the bottomless pit, he will be the only one there.

That's not true in two ways. For one thing, he was already cast there long ago. And for another thing there is no reason to think that his angels would not be cast there with him. They work together. It would not make sense to bind Satan without binding his angels as well. What would be the point of that? Just because that is not specifically mentioned doesn't mean they are not cast there.

And when he is released after the 1000 years, he is not accompanied by anyone else, because there will be no-one else in the bottomless pit except him.

That's your assumption, but he always works closely with his angels.

The bottomless pit prison will no longer exist once Satan is loosed for a short time.

Yeah, no one will be there any more after that, but so what? That doesn't prove anything one way or another in relation to what we've been talking about.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes. But the problem is how we were taught about the angels (and demons) for years. Allow me to explain...

The "Bible" NEVER said that Michael was an Angel or a Arch or Chief Angel. It is MAN who has translated the Bible said that. What many may not understand is those are man's words, not something actually found in the divine and infallible Scriptures. For example, Christ is not the "Angel" of the Covenant, He is the "Messenger" of the Covenant. Moreover, shall the fact that translators of the Bible say not only that Michael was an Angel, but translated God and Christ as Angels as well, prove God or Christ an Angel? Huh?! And they weren't Angels, were they? No, it was the translations that went wrong. That should be your first clue that the actual word is NOT Angel. Since we all know neither God the father, nor God the Son is a Angel. THEREFORE, the translation of the Hebrew word [mal'ak] or Greek word [aggelos] (both mean messenger) as Angel is incorrect, isn't it? Now an angel "can be" a Messenger of God, but [mal'ak] and [aggelos] are absolutely 100% not the word "Angel!" Now let compare the two translations:

DRB
Malachi 3:1 (John 1:6-13)

• Behold I send my angel [mal'ak], and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.

YLT
Malachi 3:1 (John 1:6-13)
Lo, I am sending My messenger [mal'ak], And he hath prepared a way before Me, And suddenly come in unto his temple Doth the Lord whom ye are seeking, Even the messenger of the covenant, Whom ye are desiring, Lo, he is coming, said Jehovah of Hosts.

Why does one translation translate this word Angel and another translate it Messenger? Because the YLT translator LITERALLY rendered (transliterated) it to the actual word/meaning that was in the Scriptures, and the DRB translater is making a presumption and translated it Angel, despite both the clear meaning of the word itself, the context and content that clearly negates such a translation. In short, the Hebrew word in Old Testament Scripture is mal'ak (messenger) and decidedly not a Greek word Angel. Neither is the Greek word in the New Testament Angel, but [aggelos], also meaning messenger. So by any sound, sober, scholarly examination of the Biblical facts, Michael is never called a chief angel in the original manuscripts, but the chief Messenger, which is actually Jesus Christ Himself!

The Bible actually says Michael was the Chief Messenger. I accept that as infallible truth.

I fully understand that the Hebrew and Greek words meaning "messenger" do not have to refer to an angel, but I believe it does in this case. I believe Satan and his angels were kicked out of heaven long ago around the time of Christ's resurrection and ascension and that is what Revelation 12 is describing. It makes sense to me that God's angels, led by Michael, would be the ones kicking them out. Before then Satan was able to accuse believers before God in heaven, but once Christ came and sacrificed Himself providing for the forgiveness of sins, Satan had nothing to accuse believers of anymore.

Good questions.

When you read Revelation 12:1-2, where Michael and his angel fought against Satan and his angels, you may assume that this battle must take place in literal heaven where woman float?! No!

Yes, it does. As I explained above. I know there is a lot of symbolism in the book of Revelation, but you don't have to turn literally everything in the book into a symbol. You take things too far.

We need to get the woman and heaven part first before determining who Michael, Satan, and their messengers are.

The woman in Heaven symbolizes the CONGREGATION. The heaven symbolizes the kingdom of heaven where woman dwells! Not in outer space or where God is. God is talking about His congregation ON EARTH where messengers dwells! There are two groups of human messengers on Earth. One belongs to Christ, Michael himself! And others are under the influence of Satan. This where the kingdom of heaven really is.

I disagree that Christ is Michael. I generally agree that the woman is the church. Or you might say she represents the Spiritual Israel of God or the Kingdom of God.

Consider wisely:

Mat 11:10-12
(10) For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
(11) Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
(12) And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

This was the violence in view. The woman represented the Old Testament congregation in the days of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. That was when she was travailing in birth and it is talking about the pains that the Old Testament congregation was going through at the time before Christ was born. In other words, Israel was in a state of trouble. Why? Because her paths were crooked (meaning that they weren't taking the straight and narrow), and the prophets and priests like the Pharisees and the Scribes, were all gone out of the way. So we read that the Kingdom of Heaven suffered violence until John, a messenger, and the violence take it by force. John prophesied to making the crooked straight and prepared the way for the Lord. This is a time of apostasy and trouble in Israel and they pained to be delivered (Jeremiah 4:31). This Child's birth is the only thing that could deliver HER (congregation Israel) so that her joy could be fulfilled. It is because the violence that the Kingdom suffered becasue of Satan will come to an end, at the cross!

So we are talking about Old Testament congregation here and the messengers within are people who followed Christ and Satan. Not some literal angels fighting in heaven with laser beams or something!

Who said anything about laser beams? LOL. Do you think Satan should have been allowed to continue accusing believers before God after Christ's resurrection? Or do you think it was time for he and his angels to be kicked out of heaven at that point? I don't see any reason to see Revelation 12 as being about anything except that. It was time for Satan to go and no longer be allowed to accuse believers before God anymore since you can't accuse someone of something when their sins have been forgiven and covered.

 

[Keraz]

Do you not believe that God could supernaturally send fire down upon the earth if He wants to? I totally disagree with your belief about what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah. The scripture says the fire came down from heaven, not from a volcano.

Revelation 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Do you not think the fire coming down from heaven described in this verse will come down supernaturally from God, either?

Fire and hot ash come down, after being thrown up by a volcano. The black layer over ancient Sodom is of volcanic origin.

Sure; Rev 20:9 is fire sent from heaven by God.
But the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath will come from the sun, a Coronal Mass Ejection of unprecedented magnitude, which will literally fulfil all the graphically Prophesies about that Day.

Obviously it is difficult for people wo have already decided what they want God to do in the end times. They get locked into their delusions.
That sudden and shocking Day will come as a surprise to most, which is what God wants; to winnow out the chaff.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I fully understand that the Hebrew and Greek words meaning "messenger" do not have to refer to an angel, but I believe it does in this case.

No, not in this case. You think because you were brainwashed to believe God was talking about literal angels, fighting in literal heaven, get kicked out from Heaven to Earth to deceive Adam and Eve, then coming back to Heaven during t he days of Job. That is false teaching.

I believe Satan and his angels were kicked out of heaven long ago around the time of Christ's resurrection and ascension and that is what Revelation 12 is describing. It makes sense to me that God's angels, led by Michael, would be the ones kicking them out. Before then Satan was able to accuse believers before God in heaven, but once Christ came and sacrificed Himself providing for the forgiveness of sins, Satan had nothing to accuse believers of anymore.

Like many Christians before you, including myself, you were indoctrinated to believe that Michael was a created being that fights with Satanbut this is NOT what God talked about.

Yes, it does. As I explained above. I know there is a lot of symbolism in the book of Revelation, but you don't have to turn literally everything in the book into a symbol. You take things too far.

You are saying this because you do not like what you hear. You just lacks spiritual discernment. Period. You need to pray to God for wisdom.

I disagree that Christ is Michael.

That is too bad. Here is another article for you to read about who Michael is.

Who is Archangel Michael?

I generally agree that the woman is the church.

Praise the Lord.

Or you might say she represents the Spiritual Israel of God or the Kingdom of God.

Yes! She is the spiritual Israel that the Old Testament Israel AND the New Testament Church REPRESENTED! Not strictly national Israel.

Who said anything about laser beams? LOL.

I heard from people who believe like you do.

Do you think Satan should have been allowed to continue accusing believers before God after Christ's resurrection?

No. Satan the accuser already fell at the Cross the moment he was cast out of the congregation Israel (temple that was falling) so that salvation could come to the New Testament congregation (temple that Christ rebuild in 3 days).

Rev 12:7-11
(7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
(11) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The heaven is the kingdom of Heaven which the congregation (where woman dwells). This is the Old Testament congregation that was talking about here. Satan was cast house because he no longe have a place in the congregation that was fallen! No longer Satan can accuser brethren because the salvation and kingdom of God has come (through the New Testament congregation that now goes to the ends of the Earth).

Or do you think it was time for he and his angels to be kicked out of heaven at that point?

Again, what heaven? What angels? You need to fix this first before figure out when they were kicked out of the Kingdom of Heaven.

It was time for Satan to go and no longer be allowed to accuse believers before God anymore since you can't accuse someone of something when their sins have been forgiven and covered.

Satan did not go anywhere. He is still on Earth as spirit of man! He was restrained so that he could not stop Christ from promote salvation through the church to the Elect until the building of the church is finished. THEN Satan will be loosened again and deceive the world. But not what you think it looks like... in literal sense.

 

[Davy]

First, you may read the Word of God but the question is do you really understand it, spiritually discerned?

It's not my spiritual discernment that is in doubt here, it is yours since you obviously cannot understand The Scripture on your own without having to refer to some article written by someone else.

Well, what is good if you read the Bible yet you do not understanding the locusts of Revelation 9 if you do not have spiritual discerned? Many professed Christians are like that.

I've already established that you do not have spiritual discernment, because of your pushing that article, and your total lack of recognizing the existence of God's teaching in the Book of Joel about those locusts.

I can see that you overreacted before you finished reading. LOL. Where did I say that the last Adam is Adam?! Read again carefully what I wrote:

Regardless, the topic about Adam's fall has nothing to do with the locusts subject of Revelation 9 and the Book of Joel. You were only pushing cannon fodder to try and fool others into thinking you know your Bible when you've already shown you do not, but only pieces of it. It's like you felt you needed to add that essay on Adam to show you knew something about The Bible, when all it did was reveal your desperation to carry on a legit Bible conversation. Thus I also have to assume that you have to go to some commentary in order to get your opinions, that you are unable to come up with your own, because you don't really understand God's Word.

No, it is you who do NOT understand. Like many Christians, you were reading "devil" as "Satan" as if he is separate entity apart from Adam.

Well, there's another one of your made-up opinions thrown out of the thin air. Satan is the devil, dragon, Lucifer, that old serpent, etc., he has many titles. So much for your stupid accusation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, not in this case. You think because you were brainwashed to believe God was talking about literal angels, fighting in literal heaven, get kicked out from Heaven to Earth to deceive Adam and Eve, then coming back to Heaven during t he days of Job. That is false teaching.

I was not brainwashed, clown. Get out of here with that nonsense.

Like many Christians before you, including myself, you were indoctrinated to believe that Michael was a created being that fights with Satanbut this is NOT what God talked about.

Stop judging me. I study scripture for myself. I have no indoctrination. I was never taught anything about angels by anyone. Stop acting like you know me. You don't. You're making a fool of yourself here.

You are saying this because you do not like what you hear. You just lacks spiritual discernment. Period. You need to pray to God for wisdom.

I don't like your terrible attitude and arrogance. Humble yourself if you want to actually understand truth.

Yes! She is the spiritual Israel that the Old Testament Israel AND the New Testament Church REPRESENTED! Not strictly national Israel.

Congratulations on at least getting something right.

Again, what heaven? What angels? You need to fix this first before figure out when they were kicked out of the Kingdom of Heaven.

The third heaven. God's angels are there. You are trying too hard. This is much more simple than you make it out to be. You make everything convoluted for no good reason.

Satan did not go anywhere. He is still on Earth as spirit of man!

What does this mean? Do you not believe in an individual spirit being named Satan (the devil)?

He was restrained so that he could not stop Christ from promote salvation through the church to the Elect until the building of the church is finished. THEN Satan will be loosened again and deceive the world. But not what you think it looks like... in literal sense.

What are you talking about? I don't see Satan's binding and loosing as literal.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's not my spiritual discernment that is in doubt here, it is yours since you obviously cannot understand The Scripture on your own without having to refer to some article written by someone else.

Let me clear this up. Neither one of you have much spiritual discernment. You're welcome.

 

[Davy]

Let me clear this up. Neither one of you have much spiritual discernment. You're welcome.

Hot air.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hot air.

I'm glad you recognize that is all you have to offer. Better to just post that then all the nonsense you normally post.

 

[Davy]

I'm glad you recognize that is all you have to offer. Better to just post that then all the nonsense you normally post.

By you REFUSING to address the actual Bible Scripture, and instead have turned to personal slander stupidity, don't expect God to show you anything in His Word, for you have drifted far away from His Word.

 

[Davy]

Yes, I think the Joel passage is speaking of a literal locust army, but depicts God's use of various plagues to bring judgment upon the disobedient among the Jewish People. The same would apply in the last days to Christian Civilization, which has gone apostate.

Plagues will fall upon European Civilization, as it already has. But I do agree that the Revelation passage is likely speaking of a different kind of plague--a non-literal locust plague, probably representing an Army, whether demonic or human. You're right--it's obviously symbolic, and not a literal locust plague.

The locust army of Rev.9 and Book of Joel is NOT about literal locusts. God is simply using locusts as a symbol for how Satan's servants here on earth setup his future kingdom over all nations and peoples in prep for Satan's coming to play Christ on earth. The system they have been setting up is about their "one world government" idea which their leaders have openly declared in their political speeches.

 

[3 Resurrections]

6 For a nation is come up upon My land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.

There's the reference to the Rev.9:8 verse about the locusts having teeth LIKE lions. That is a METAPHOR, not about real locusts have teeth like lions. God does NOT do monsters, so it just silliness to think these locusts are monsters like in some Hollywood horror movie.

WHAT does God call them there? A NATION! That means a specific PEOPLE!

25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, My great army which I sent among you.

Notice especially, that God calls that locust army, "My great army which I sent among you"!

You are exactly correct here in your first comments that this plague was referring to a nation's literal ARMY which God was going to send among His people.

But you are incorrect on your timing of when this would occur. God gave us the timing for this in Joel 1:15 and Joel 2:1. The time for this to begin happening was THEN "AT HAND" for that very generation which Joel was prophesying to.

Notice the 4 phases of this "at hand" judgment - first of "the palmerworm", second of "the locust", third of "the cankerworm", and last of all of "the caterpillar". In the years after Joel was written, the Assyrian army came to attack Israel in a series of battles. One after the other, a succession of Assyrian kings and their armies continued to plague the nation of Israel, just as God had intended for the nation of Assyria to do in punishment for Israel's idolatry.

First, there was the Assyrian King Tiglathpileser III (2 Kings 16:7-9) who came against Damascus in 740 BC, and then the cities of Israel, after Ahaz the king of Judah had bribed him to attack Syria and Israel, his enemies.

Second, the next Assyrian king was Shalmaneser V who began a 3-year siege against Hoshea king of Israel in Samaria in 722 BC (2 Kings 17:3-6)

Third, the next Assyrian king was Sargon II who continued his predecessor's battle campaign against the nations in the Levant.

Fourth, the next Assyrian king was Sennacherib who went so far as to carry the battle to Judah and Jerusalem itself in 701 BC. He was only prevented from taking Jerusalem under King Hezekiah by God's direct intervention in killing 185 thousand Assyrians in a single night (2 Kings 19:35-37). This humiliating defeat sent this king of the "Northern army" of Assyria back to his capitol at Nineveh, where he was slain by his own sons (the humiliation of the defeated "Northern army" in Joel 2:20).