LOCUSTS From The Book of JOEL

[TribulationSigns]

God did not talk about physical locusts here. They represent men with the spirit of antichrist. For example...

It becomes greater as more and more Christians fall away from the true faith to become part of the army. Second, they are tormented by the word of God and they are hurt in their spiritual condition by its judgment. The hurt the false prophets inflict is spiritual as they are seduced. Our witness of the word is like heaping coals of fire upon their head because of their refusal to receive the truth that God's witnesses bring in love. Remember, these are unsaved people "being deceived" by false doctrines straight from the spirit from the pit of Hell. That's the symbolism in the imagery coming from the smoke of the bottomless pit. True believers know these as spirits of serpents and scorpions that will hurt the church, but those who are deceived by them do not see them that way. They see them as Christian teachers with love and compassion, and as righteous Pastors (2nd Corinthians 11:14-14), caring shepherds, and magnanimous ministers. In reality, they are truly wolves in sheep's clothing that are come to devour the sheep. Yes, I believe that they do not know that they are being deceived or tormented in God's judgment upon them. E.g.:

Isaiah 42:24-25

• "Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.
• Therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle: and it hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart."

Just as those who were God's people were being burned and tormented in His judgment upon them, and yet they didn't know it. Likewise, these people of Revelation 9 who also are God's people tormented in the flame also don't realize it. The same judgment of God, on the same people of God, in the same principle of God, same torment upon them (different imagery), and the same reaction to it. That the people can be hurt by this torment of the serpent/scorpion (which is their judghment of God), and yet the true believers cannot, is the same type Biblical imagery we read of in Mark chapter 16. There God says that all those who believe and are baptized in Christ will drink deadly poison and it would not hurt them. Of course, this is not real physical poison, it's the spiritual poison or wormwood of false doctrine come as refreshing waters. And it's the same principle with those who can be hurt by it and those who can't. The deadly poison is symbolic of the false doctrines of devils that will destroy those who are not truly sealed or secured in Christ. But to those truly sealed/secured by the Spirit of God, none of the poisons of these locusts or serpent bites can hurt them. The hurt in view in both these chapters illustrates the power of the seducing/deceiving spirit of Satan. It is a power that cannot hurt or harm the true saints because they are just, but will wreak havoc in deceiving "professing" Christians. Christians who, in the stubbornness of their own will, will not receive the true love that comes in truth. That is to say, the spirit of seduction or deception that causes those who are Christian "in name only," to fall away from the faith. That is the "hurt" they suffer.

1st Timothy 4:1-2

• "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
• Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"

This spirit that hurts those that give heed to them, cannot hurt true Christians. The true believers, sealed by the Spirit of promise, will try / test / prove the spirits that they are not deceived by them. The pretenders in Christ who fall away will not try men’s words by scripture. They will ignore scripture (God), their conscience being seared so that they are able to believe whatever they want regardless of what the Bible actually says. Sounds fimiliar? Whatever is agreeable to them, whatever is smooth and less offensive to them, whatever is their desire to believe. The spirit that seduces/deceives does so in a way where the way of truth is evil spoken of (reviled) and they receive it as gospel. The truth that seems so unloving and ungodly to them. While the spirit that comes from the pit, through feigned words of God, appears so understanding and compassionate. Yet it is a spirit that causes pain as that of a scorpion when he stings a man. In other words, injecting his poison, even as the serpent. This is the hurt of the plague of locust scorpions from the pit.

Revelation 9:4-5

• "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
• And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."

This torment of the serpent/scorpion is the poison of deception, and confusion of false doctrines along with the word of God from the saints, which is a torment of the truth of their judgment. To find the answer to our question of this hurt, we compare scripture with scripture and discover how it is that the "true Believers" that are sealed, cannot be hurt by these scorpions from the pit. Then, and only then will we know how those who only profess being saved and sealed of God, can be hurt by it. And that leads us to Luke chapter 10.

Luke 10:18-20

• "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
• Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
• Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."

Satan falling from heaven is by the work of Christ's death and resurrection signifying that through Christ he has no more power to sting and poison us (true believers). By our being sealed or secured in the Holy Spirit, God preserves us from the poisonous power of Satan. These scriptures symbolize the evil spirits cannot bring God's witnesses into subjection to them. Because when we are regenerated and sealed/secured of God, the spirit of the enemy cannot harm us. So by this, we can understand that those who can be (and are) hurt by the scorpions in Revelation, are those who do not have the spirit of Christ unto judgment, to discern deception. Thus we know what this hurt is. The power of the enemy (the power to hurt), symbolized by the serpent/scorpion, is the power of the devil to bring them fully under his rule. i.e., to make them (professing Christians) fall away, apostatize, forsake the truth, depart from the faith. This is the "hurt" that these seducing spirits have power to do. ...and will do.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Please tell us; Just how does God Spiritually describe the sun?

Here is one of many examples in Scripture if you have spiritual ears to hear.

Isa 13:9-11
(9) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
(10) For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
(11) And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Do you know who the world is in that context? Who the stars are that should not give light anymore? If you know the Revelation you would understand, but sadly you reject the truth in favor of man's opinions. In God's eyes, Christ is the sun, the light of the world, and we, His messengers, are the stars, the lessor lights because of His regenerating within us. This spoke of Israel, and no literal stars fell from heaven. You'd know that if you received the Revelation, but you continue to be an adversary to it.

Act 2:16-20
(16) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
(17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
(18) And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
(19) And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
(20) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Fulfilled. Do you recall the moon turning to blood? Literally? No, because it's not literal, and you are not understanding that we worship God in spirit and truth.

In Matthew 24 and Revelation, the sign of Christ's coming is the Sun, Moon, and Stars darkening and falling. But do you understand what the Lord talked about here? Literal sun spew CES? Moon lose their light reflection from sun? The stars from millions of light years away literally fall upon Earth? Or do those represent the apostasy in the church wherein false prophets and christs (false messengers) with their lying signs and wonders (fallen stars) in the unfaithful church (blood moon) deceive many who have not yet sealed God because they cannot find Christ (sun darkening).

Understanding spiritual things by Spiritual things.

 

[Davy]

Have you heard that a colony of bees have a queen ?

Abaddon is an angel who somehow controls the locust creatures. The locust creatures are not said to be angels in the text. There is so much we don't understand.

Abaddon and Apollyon per Rev.9:11 are simply titles for Satan himself. The name Apollyon comes from the Greek word for 'perdition'.

The beast king of Rev.17 that goes into perdition is about Satan himself, since he and his angels only as of today, have already been judged and sentenced to perdition in the future "lake of fire" (Matt.25:41).

 

[TribulationSigns]

Abaddon and Apollyon per Rev.9:11 are simply titles for Satan himself. The name Apollyon comes from the Greek word for 'perdition'.

Indeed!

Revelation 9:11

• "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

First, Satan is "NOT" an angel, he is a spirit the "messenger" of evil, and Apollyon (or Abaddon) is Satan Himself, that very same spirit and king ruling over the deceived. Satan doesn't give command to Apollyon, Satan is Apollyon himself! That word means destruction, and that is the epitome of what he does here. He is the king or ruler of this spiritual army from the abyss, and what he brings is death to these people, spiritually speaking. This Hebrew word [abaddon] only occurs here in the New Testament and 5 times in the Old Testament (Job 26:6; 28:22; 31:12; Psalm 88:11; Prov 15:11 ) and always relates to death, which this messenger from hell/hades brings to the unfaithful congregation (those in it who are not truly sealed).

Satan's interest is absolutely in attacking the church today, and in Revelation 20 when he is loosed God makes that point even more abundantly clear. It's the evil spirit Satan's "whole persona" and reason for existence. He is the absolute quintessential adversary of the church, not the world which is already his domain. The world is his own, it's already his kingdom that he's not fighting against because a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Selah! So the Word of God encourages us to make our calling and election sure not because Satan has no interest in attacking the church, but because that is his whole character, his entire modus operandi. Satan isn't loosed to attack his own kingdom, but as judgment upon the unfaithful church, just as in the old Testament God loosed wicked empires upon Israel as judgment for their rebellions as an example! The fact is, the judgment and apostasy comes specifically because Satan is loosed by God upon a rebellious church that will not receive His truth in the love wherewith it was given. Apostasy is a falling away of the church, not a falling away of the world. The world, in itself, already fallen.

2nd Thessalonians 2:9-11

• "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
• And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
• And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
• That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

The false christs and false prophets that come to deceive are attacking the church, and who do they deceive there? Under rule of the Apollyon, the great destroyer Satan, they bring the rebellious church to desolation by deceiving those men within it that do not have the seal of God in their foreheads.

Revelation 7:2-3

• "And I saw another messenger ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four messengers, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
• Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

That's the whole reason WHY Satan was bound in the bottomless pit in the first place, so that He could not go forth deceiving the nations until after the building of the church with the 144,000 of Israel were all sealed (secured) with the Spirit of promise! But once the church has done its job, their testimony of salvation is finished, then Satan is loosed "as locusts" upon the grass (of gospel/church). The point being NOT until God has sealed/saved everyone that He intends to save.

For example, those who have not made their calling and election sure (2nd Peter 1:10). God brings this spiritual judgment of delusion upon His Temple (Church) because these are those who would not receive the love of truth (2nd Thessalonians 2:12), instead getting their pleasure from unrighteousness. The destroyer comes up against the camp of the saints, not his own camp and his own people and his own kingdom.

Selah!

 

[Davy]

Indeed!

Revelation 9:11

• "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

First, Satan is "NOT" an angel, he is a spirit the "messenger" of evil, and Apollyon (or Abaddon) is Satan Himself, that very same spirit and king ruling over the deceived.

Satan is... that "angel of the bottomless pit", and "a king".

I agree the word 'angel' is not specific for a heavenly specie. But it is still used for Satan at times. Satan is actually a heavenly cherub (per God's parable about the king of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28). Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8 calls him a "beast". And one of the ways to know that is about Satan is because only he and his angels to date have already been judged and sentenced to perdition at the future "lake of fire". No flesh born man has been judged to perish yet, not even Judas Iscariot.

 

[Douggg]

Abaddon and Apollyon per Rev.9:11 are simply titles for Satan himself. The name Apollyon comes from the Greek word for 'perdition'.

The beast king of Rev.17 that goes into perdition is about Satan himself, since he and his angels only as of today, have already been judged and sentenced to perdition in the future "lake of fire" (Matt.25:41).

Davy, I have been over why Satan cannot be the beast-king.

Look at the right hand side of my chart. See where it says Satan is "cast into the bottomless pit" ? And where it says the beast is "cast alive into the lake of fire" ?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Satan is actually a heavenly cherub (per God's parable about the king of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28). Revelation 11:7 and Revelation 17:8 calls him a "beast".

No Satan was never a "cherub."

What are Cherubim?

 

[Davy]

Davy, I have been over why Satan cannot be the beast-king.

Look at the right hand side of my chart. See where it says Satan is "cast into the bottomless pit" ? And where it says the beast is "cast alive into the lake of fire" ?


View attachment 46330

Nope. I cannot agree with your chart. You have wrongly added to Scripture with man's false pre-trib rapture theory. Thus you have skewed that actual Bible events written of for the end.

God's two witnesses begin their 1260 day prophesying at the middle of the 7 years, the same time when the "dragon" starts his reign for 42 months, and those who worship in the temple per Rev.11:1-2. The middle is also when the Antichrist will setup the abomination idol in Jerusalem. Only the latter 1260 days are the actual "great tribulation" time.

Nor does the Church on earth go anywhere until the end of the whole 7 years. Jesus returns only ONE time, which is after the tribulation like He said in Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[Davy]

No Satan was never a "cherub."

What are Cherubim?

The below Scripture God is using the title "king of Tyrus" put for Lucifer himself.

Ezek 28:12-16
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
KJV

We know that no flesh king of Tyrus ever was in God's Garden of Eden, but Satan was.

So what was it you were saying that Satan is not a cherub?

 

[TribulationSigns]

The below Scripture God is using the title "king of Tyrus" put for Lucifer himself.
So what was it you were saying that Satan is not a cherub?

I bet you have not read the linked article above yet?

It is the passage where theologians originally got the whole idea of Cherubim being angels in the first place. The source of confusion is the mention of the Cherub in Ezekiel 28:14. The passage in question quite clearly declares that the person it is speaking about as the covering Cherub is the king of Tyrus, not an angel. Nevertheless, certainly we can understand their logic, if not their entrenchment. They "assume" that because the reference here says the king was in the Garden of Eden, it has to refer to Satan as a fallen angel. And from this they surmise that God is using the king as a type of Satan. However, without Biblical warrant, we cannot make such a leap of faith in interpretation. The rule of thumb applies that "assumption is the mother of error." He was called the anointed cherub because he was representative man, created in the likeness of God in Adam, and has fallen to sin and lost all semblance of the image of God. Clearly, the King of Tyrus waws not in the Garden of Eden, nor perfect in beauty as Adam was, but he is representative of mankind and his degradation.

Ezekiel 28:12-16

• "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
• Thou hast been in Eden the Garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
• Thou art the anointed Cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
• Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
• By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering Cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."

At first glance it is easy to see how one could make such a mistake about the king representing a fallen angel. However, rather than "reading into this text" an angel, the king of Tyrus is quite clearly a man being castigated by God for being created in the image of God to be righteous, but who has turned from God in his sin and thus come under judgment. So rather than represent a fallen angel, this represents FALLEN MAN. It illustrates original man in Adam, created good (Genesis 1:26-27) in the image/likeness of God before the fall. Man, as he was created without sin, but who has fallen in Adam, losing the glory of the likeness of God he was created with. Thus because of his fall and our inheritance of his spirit of bondage to disobedience, we are all subject to death. But thanks to our God, that full glory of God's image can be restored in Christ Jesus. Thus He is often referred to as the second Adam.

1st Corinthians 15:20-22

• "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
• For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
• For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

Now we can see the spiritual darkness begin to clear as we can see more of the picture. We were 'all' created in the image of God in Adam. The sin of Adam separated man from that image of God. And in the process, it separated all of us in generations to follow from that likeness. It was man who was perfect in the mountain (Kingdom) of God. But sin was found in us, and we all died in Adam (1st Corinthians 15:20-22) and are come under judgment as surely as King Tyrus had. And except we are restored to the image of God that 'man' had in the garden, we remain fallen and subject to the wrath of God. The king of Tyrus is man directly from the loins of Adam, who can only be restored to the image of God, in the second Adam, which is Christ.

Romans 8:29

• "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

It should be self-evident that (according to scripture) it was man (Adam) and not angels who were in the Garden of Eden where every precious stone was his covering. It was Adam who was the anointed Cherub that covereth upon the Holy mountain of God because He was the very image/likeness of the Glory of God. It was Adam who walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (in the presence of God) in that Garden. In point of fact, the very name "Tyrus" means a stone. So it's quite obvious to me what is being illustrated here. It was in Adam that man was in the image of God and perfect in all his ways in the garden from the day that he was created, until iniquity was found in him (the fall). And the fall of the king of Tyrus in his sinfulness "personifies" this fall from God's image by Adam. God is illustrating to fallen man that we qualify by attempting to be like God in eating of the tree of knowledge without wisdom. Man qualifies for "all" that we read in Ezekiel 28:12-16. But Angels do not qualify. We interpret scripture by scripture, not by popular assumptions. And not once do we read of angels in the Garden of Eden. Not once do we read of angels falling in the Garden of Eden. Not once do we read of angels being corrupted because of knowledge. Not once do we read of angels defiling their sanctuaries by the multitude of their iniquities. On the contrary, we read of man in the garden, man was perfect there from the time he was created, and man is the one who fell there. And let's not forget, did not God say these very things of Adam?

Genesis 3:22

• "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"

It is man who was corrupted because of knowledge, not angels. He sought to be as God by his disobedience in eating of the tree of knowledge, and it was this that caused his fall in the day he transgressed. Satan in the Garden of Eden didn't have every precious stone his covering, but Adam was made glorious, precious in the sight of the Lord. Satan was not set the anointed Cherub that covereth upon the holy mountain of God, but scripture says Adam (man) was created in the very image of God so that this definition is consistent. In point of fact, everything in the Garden of Eden, including the serpent, was 'under dominion of Adam,' (Genesis 1:26-28;3:1) as He was perfect. Adam was the very likeness or image of God. ..as a Cherub.

Go read the article!

 

[Douggg]

Nope. I cannot agree with your chart. You have wrongly added to Scripture with man's false pre-trib rapture theory.

My chart reflects the anytime rapture view - i.e. anytime between now and when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act of 2Thessalonians2:4.

God's two witnesses begin their 1260 day prophesying at the middle of the 7 years, the same time when the "dragon" starts his reign for 42 months, and those who worship in the temple per Rev.11:1-2. The middle is also when the Antichrist will setup the abomination idol in Jerusalem. Only the latter 1260 days are the actual "great tribulation" time.

Davy, the great tribulation will be 1335 days long. Take these end times time frames given in the bible and make a timeline chart.

Are you able to make a diagram like this, but showing your placement of the time frames ?

 

[Davy]

I bet you have not read the linked article above yet?

It is the passage where theologians originally got the whole idea of Cherubim being angels in the first place. The source of confusion is the mention of the Cherub in Ezekiel 28:14. The passage in question quite clearly declares that the person it is speaking about as the covering Cherub is the king of Tyrus, not an angel. Nevertheless, certainly we can understand their logic, if not their entrenchment. They "assume" that because the reference here says the king was in the Garden of Eden, it has to refer to Satan as a fallen angel. And from this they surmise that God is using the king as a type of Satan. However, without Biblical warrant, we cannot make such a leap of faith in interpretation. The rule of thumb applies that "assumption is the mother of error." He was called the anointed cherub because he was representative man, created in the likeness of God in Adam, and has fallen to sin and lost all semblance of the image of God. Clearly, the King of Tyrus waws not in the Garden of Eden, nor perfect in beauty as Adam was, but he is representative of mankind and his degradation.

Ezekiel 28:12-16

• "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
• Thou hast been in Eden the Garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
• Thou art the anointed Cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
• Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
• By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering Cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."

At first glance it is easy to see how one could make such a mistake about the king representing a fallen angel. However, rather than "reading into this text" an angel, the king of Tyrus is quite clearly a man being castigated by God for being created in the image of God to be righteous, but who has turned from God in his sin and thus come under judgment. So rather than represent a fallen angel, this represents FALLEN MAN. It illustrates original man in Adam, created good (Genesis 1:26-27) in the image/likeness of God before the fall. Man, as he was created without sin, but who has fallen in Adam, losing the glory of the likeness of God he was created with. Thus because of his fall and our inheritance of his spirit of bondage to disobedience, we are all subject to death. But thanks to our God, that full glory of God's image can be restored in Christ Jesus. Thus He is often referred to as the second Adam.

1st Corinthians 15:20-22

• "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
• For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
• For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

Now we can see the spiritual darkness begin to clear as we can see more of the picture. We were 'all' created in the image of God in Adam. The sin of Adam separated man from that image of God. And in the process, it separated all of us in generations to follow from that likeness. It was man who was perfect in the mountain (Kingdom) of God. But sin was found in us, and we all died in Adam (1st Corinthians 15:20-22) and are come under judgment as surely as King Tyrus had. And except we are restored to the image of God that 'man' had in the garden, we remain fallen and subject to the wrath of God. The king of Tyrus is man directly from the loins of Adam, who can only be restored to the image of God, in the second Adam, which is Christ.

Romans 8:29

• "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

It should be self-evident that (according to scripture) it was man (Adam) and not angels who were in the Garden of Eden where every precious stone was his covering. It was Adam who was the anointed Cherub that covereth upon the Holy mountain of God because He was the very image/likeness of the Glory of God. It was Adam who walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (in the presence of God) in that Garden. In point of fact, the very name "Tyrus" means a stone. So it's quite obvious to me what is being illustrated here. It was in Adam that man was in the image of God and perfect in all his ways in the garden from the day that he was created, until iniquity was found in him (the fall). And the fall of the king of Tyrus in his sinfulness "personifies" this fall from God's image by Adam. God is illustrating to fallen man that we qualify by attempting to be like God in eating of the tree of knowledge without wisdom. Man qualifies for "all" that we read in Ezekiel 28:12-16. But Angels do not qualify. We interpret scripture by scripture, not by popular assumptions. And not once do we read of angels in the Garden of Eden. Not once do we read of angels falling in the Garden of Eden. Not once do we read of angels being corrupted because of knowledge. Not once do we read of angels defiling their sanctuaries by the multitude of their iniquities. On the contrary, we read of man in the garden, man was perfect there from the time he was created, and man is the one who fell there. And let's not forget, did not God say these very things of Adam?

Genesis 3:22

• "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"

It is man who was corrupted because of knowledge, not angels. He sought to be as God by his disobedience in eating of the tree of knowledge, and it was this that caused his fall in the day he transgressed. Satan in the Garden of Eden didn't have every precious stone his covering, but Adam was made glorious, precious in the sight of the Lord. Satan was not set the anointed Cherub that covereth upon the holy mountain of God, but scripture says Adam (man) was created in the very image of God so that this definition is consistent. In point of fact, everything in the Garden of Eden, including the serpent, was 'under dominion of Adam,' (Genesis 1:26-28;3:1) as He was perfect. Adam was the very likeness or image of God. ..as a Cherub.

Go read the article!

That article is false Jew BALDERDASH!

Satan's children are those who push the lie that God was calling a flesh born king as a covering cherub that was in His Garden of Eden.

God disguised His parable about Lucifer there using the "king of Tyrus" title for people JUST LIKE YOU that obviously have not been given eyes to see and ears to hear in order to understand that He was pointing to Satan.

 

[TribulationSigns]

That article is false Jew BALDERDASH!

Satan's children are those who push the lie that God was calling a flesh born king as a covering cherub that was in His Garden of Eden.

God disguised His parable about Lucifer there using the "king of Tyrus" title for people JUST LIKE YOU that obviously have not been given eyes to see and ears to hear in order to understand that He was pointing to Satan.

I provided scripture and explained it. Not your false claim of “Jew BALDERDASH”. Where are yours with scripture support for your position. Not interested in your personal opinion or rants regarding king of Tyrus.

 

[Davy]

My chart reflects the anytime rapture view - i.e. anytime between now and when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act of 2Thessalonians2:4.

Sorry, the "anytime rapture view" IS... the pre-trib rapture theory. Why? Because Jesus set the time of the gathering of His Church for after the tribulation, NOT just anytime (see Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27).

Davy, the great tribulation will be 1335 days long. Take these end times time frames given in the bible and make a timeline chart.



View attachment 46334

I'm pretty sure I've already posted a chart of the timeline of endtime events.

 

[Davy]

I provided scripture and explained it. Where are yours with scripture support for your position. Not interested in your personal opinion or rants regarding king of Tyrus.

You provided a view created by the "synagogue of Satan", showed how you've been deceived away from understanding God's parable there about Lucifer.

God did a similar thing in Isaiah 14 about Lucifer, which the KJV translators added the name "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12 because the actual manuscript uses the 'morning star'. The KJV translators were very correct with using the name "Lucifer" instead, because that is who God was obviously pointing to there in Isaiah 14.

To totally miss or DENY the fact that God is pointing to Lucifer in Ezekiel 28 about the "king of Tyrus", is to totally miss God's Message there of what Lucifer tried to do against Him in the old world when Lucifer first coveted God's Throne for himself. So of course Satan and his servants do not want you to understand that.

 

[Douggg]

Sorry, the "anytime rapture view" IS... the pre-trib rapture theory. Why? Because Jesus set the time of the gathering of His Church for after the tribulation, NOT just anytime (see Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27).

Davy, the pre-trib view is that the rapture will take place before the 70th week begins.

The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 is not the rapture of the church, but the gathering of all the Jews from the nations back into the land of Israel. It is a promise that God made back in Deuteronomy 30:1-6.

 

[Davy]

Davy, the pre-trib view is that the rapture will take place before the 70th week begins.

Pre-trib, Mid-trib, all the same doctrine origin. There's only one time that Jesus showed for the gathering of His Church. I've already pointed to that Scripture.

The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 is not the rapture of the church, but the gathering of all the Jews from the nations back into the land of Israel. It is a promise that God made back in Deuteronomy 30:1-6.

Absolutely not.
The Matthew 24:29-31 verses are about the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 gathering from heaven of the asleep saints by Christ. The Mark 13:24-27 version is about the gathering of the saints still alive on earth by Christ and is linked to the 1 Thess.4:17 verse (what some call the rapture).

Thus Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.4 taught what Jesus taught about the day of His coming to gather His Church per His Olivet discourse.

Those who wrongly claim that Jesus was pointing to Jews and not His Church for His Olivet discourse have been deceived by false teachers.

 

[Douggg]

I'm pretty sure I've already posted a chart of the timeline of endtime events.

I must have missed it. Could you post it again in your reply to this post ?

 

[TribulationSigns]

You provided a view created by the "synagogue of Satan"

False accusation. Where did you get the idea after I quoted Scripture and explained coming from the "synagogue of Satan?" No biblical refutation from you. You are making a statement like this because you did not like what you heard but not able to prove biblically that I was wrong. Just rants.

, showed how you've been deceived away from understanding God's parable there about Lucifer.

Very unlikely.

God did a similar thing in Isaiah 14 about Lucifer, which the KJV translators added the name "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12 because the actual manuscript uses the 'morning star'. The KJV translators were very correct is using the name "Lucifer" instead, because that is who God was obviously pointing to there in Isaiah 14.

I do not think you read the Scripture carefully or understand who the son of the morning is.

Isa 14:12
(12) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

The meaning of Lucifer is the son of the morning. Not Morning Star. That belongs to Jesus Christ:

Rev 22:16
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Jesus Christ is the morning star, and we as his children are the sons of the morning. Lucifer was referred to as our fallen spirit just as Adam had when the iniquity was found in him. That is why we all need to be born again with Spirit of Christ, replacing our spirit of disobedience and the name of that spirit is Satan. Selah!

To totally miss or DENY the fact that God is pointing to Lucifer in Ezekiel 28 about the "king of Tyrus", is to totally miss God's Message there of what Lucifer tried to do against Him in the old world when Lucifer first coveted God's Throne for himself. So of course Satan and his servants do not want you to understand that.

You do not get it. God pictured Adam as king of Tyrus because of his fallen spirit which the name Lucifer referred to. This does not apply to the "anointing cherub" which you did not bother to read in the above article, because you "think" the anointing Cherub is Lucifer.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Yeah, I do have yet another... rebuttal for the silliness you posted in your post #29.

The 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe of Revelation 9 is for the END of this present world, NOT 66 A.D., nor 70 A.D., etc. It's not even ABOUT THE ROMANS!

Those who know what I'm talking about regarding the locusts of Rev.9 show that they have actually read the Book of Joel where God revealed what the locusts are about for the end.

You simply have the wrong time frame. The 5th trumpet judgment is included within the Revelation 1:3 and 22:10 time markers that limit John's entire book of visions. The introduction and the conclusion to the book tell us how to interpret everything between those two "bookends". ALL those visions related to future events both John and the interpreting angel said were "at hand" for John's own generation. The background scenery was already in place, and the events prophesied were then starting to play out - in John's own generation. Revelation was not written describing the end of this present world. It was written for the end of the AGE that saw the destruction of Judea's cities, especially Jerusalem, its temple, and the entire temple worship system.

As for the book of Joel, this prophet wrote about the days of the early church when God poured out His Spirit on all flesh, as Peter claimed was being fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. Peter also told the people that every prophet who had ever spoken since the beginning of the world had something to say about those days surrounding the early church - which would have included Joel. But just because locusts were mentioned in both Joel 1 and Revelation 9 does not automatically make them refer to the same prophecy. Actual locusts and swarms of locusts were a "thing" in Judea which naturally tended to emerge around a five month period beginning around Passover.

Since you have a military background, I strongly suggest that you research the period of time that the corrupt Roman governor of Judea, Gessius Florus was in power. He gave license to his Roman troops and encouraged them to treat the Judean people in a manner so oppressive that they were willing to start a rebellion in order to get rid of their Roman oppressors. The harassment by the Roman troops wasn't necessarily done with the ultimate goal of killing the Judean people yet (as in Rev. 9:5) - just tormenting them in order to provoke a violent rebellion in response to their abuse sanctioned by the Roman governor Gessius Florus. This torment of those in Judea lasted from Passover in AD 66 until the inevitable Zealot rebellion broke out five months later. All the details of this 5th trumpet judgment match up with this period of history in Judea. And most importantly, it all falls within John's limited time markers of what was "at hand" in his own days (Rev. 1:3 and 22:10).