Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Your very words are fatalistic.
You may never have heard of him. But you follow his teaching.
And i can not and I will not support it.
The Gospel of Reconciliation
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You may never have heard of him. But you follow his teaching.
And i can not and I will not support it.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
You can believe what you like my friend....I will leave you with this as you haven’t explained what imperishable seed means.God Bless.
His seed is in me and has been for nearly 32 yrs..where it has grown and flourished, why, because it was the seed of God that was planted in my heart.
I’m not sure if you read books other than the Bible. I suggest you stick to Gods word only, the rest is junk.Love you Brother.
NLT Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God. KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God
Gods word never lies.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I can see why people get so frustrated talking to you.
I have explained what imperishable seed is many times, In this very conversation the last few days. Just like I have explained what new birth is many times, and you keep saying I do not..
You continue to bear false witness against me.. then try to say I am in error.
Believe what you want..
I will fight any belief that puts God in a bad situation.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
You haven’t...explained imperishable seed..that is the seed of God...?..we are Born Again of imperishable seed. see that...a Born Again has received Gods seed into their heart, that is the new nature?..which you clearly aren’t understanding?
As do you me!.
I too will stand on the word of God ,put God in a bad situation?
4 Bible Verses about The Holy Spirit Described As The Wind
Most Relevant Verses
Acts 2:2
Verse Concepts
And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
Ezekiel 37:9-14
Then He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they come to life.”’” So I prophesied as He commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they came to life and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army. Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.’read more.
John 3:8
Verse Concepts
The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
John 20:22
Verse Concepts
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
Source: 4 Bible verses about The Holy Spirit Described As The Wind
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Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Heaven help us. All baptisms I have ever heard have said in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Like Jesus said... Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"specifically it is the one who has faith and has buried with Him in Baptism. There is no avoiding the truth that the baptism there is water baptism."
You can spin your Never said baptism saves all you want. YOU ARE saying here that without baptism God will not save you. IT IS THE SAME THING!!!
That is so wrong I am not going to waste characters explaining it .
The difference is whether it is God who saves or whether it is the act of being baptized that saves. They are not the same thing at all. The RCC and some Protestants believe that it is the act of being baptized that takes away sin. That is the reason for infant baptism. They treat it as a sacrament, which is a ritual considered to impart some aspect of divine grace. I do not believe in sacraments. I do not believe that there is any power whatsoever in the act of being immersed in water. I believe baptism is the occasion, the instant in life of the believer, when God forgives the believer's sins and gives him the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
It is similar to the account of Naaman the leper in 2 Kings 5. Was he cured of leprosy by the water of the Jordan or by obedience to what Elisha's messenger told him to do? And was it Elisha that cleansed Naaman's leprosy or was it God through Naaman's obedience to what God's prophet told him to do? You decide.
And I have never said that without baptism, God will not save you. What I have said is that God has promised to save you when you believe and are baptized. What God chooses to do with the one who believes in Him but is not baptized or refuses to be baptized is up to Him.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The fact is that Jesus said to believe is a work. Clearly such work is not the works that Paul spoke against. You need to get your story straight. As it now stands, you are confused about it.
Also, Paul spoke of the retribution to those who do not obey the gospel (2 Thess 1:5-8). Similarly, Peter spoke about the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel (1 Pet 4:17). I might ask you if you have obeyed the gospel and if so, specifically, how you have done that. In doing that are you signing up for salvation by works?
It is important to understand that there are works of the gospel and works of the law. They are not the same. Do really believe that we are saved by doing absolutely nothing? If so, what is the difference between the lost and the saved?
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Get my story straight?
Jesus said it is the work of GOD. not your work.
Paul said twice we can BOAST of our works. Because they merit what we recieve. so we can take credit.
No one can boast of having faith in someone else to do ALL the work.
But you can certainly boast of saving yourself because you got baptized..
John 1, John 3, John 4 John 5 Eph 1 Eph 2
start there and you will see what God said we do to recieve his gift of salvation.
You will notice. no mention of baptism anywhere
It is important to understand it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us.
You work of water baptism, while a good work. and a work of obedience and righteousness. Is not how you were saved, it was By Gods mercy.
If your faith is in water.. Do you have faith in God? Thats a deep question.
Yes, bet your story straight.
Joh 6:27 "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."
Joh 6:28 Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
In verse 27 Jesus said do not work for food which perishes; rather, work for the food which endures to eternal life. Clearly Jesus is giving them the work which they should do. They then asked, in effect, what is that work that we should do. Jesus' answer was that the works that they should do was believe in Him whom God has sent, namely Jesus. Believing in Jesus was the work that they should do. Believing is not something that God does, it is something that you do. Good grief.
Paul spoke of works of the law. Believing is a work, but it is not a work of the law. If you would like to challenge me on that. God ahead, find anywhere in Scripture where faith in God is called out as a work of the law. There are many things that we do that are not works of the law.
The boasting that I see mostly is from those who declare that they are among the very few who God chose to save. It is like the pride of the kid chosen first in the choosing up sides for a sandlot ball game.
And I don't recall ever hearing anyone boasting that they saved themselves, baptized or not. That is a really ridiculous strawman. Like most of the rest of the strawmen put forth by the anti-baptism cult.
If you will read the accounts in Acts of persons being saved, you will see that baptism is mentioned even more than is believing. But of course, you will refuse to even acknowledge that. And in the other books, there is no lack of baptism spoken of as being an integral part of being saved.
I have never said that was how I was saved. Of course it was by Grace through faith. It was not how I was saved, it was WHEN I was baptized, just as is described in so many passages in the NT.
No, that is not a deep question. That is a stupid question.
Right. We are not called to have faith in anything except Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Not a church, Not a religion, Not in anything that we have done or become. Faith in God and his Son Jesus Christ.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
Can anyone else explain to this person. that Jesus is saying IT IS THE WORK OF GOD THAT WE BELIEVE?
No.
IT IS TH WORK OF GOD THAT WE BELIEVE
Stop taking credit for the work of God.
I could care less if it is a work of the law or not.
Faith is not a work. it is a trust. You are trusting in the work of someone else..
Antibaptism cult?
Dude. God said we should be baptized. and we should failure to do so is sin.
The cult is saying water baptism saves. and replacing the baptism of the spirit with the baptism of man.
The fact is,
NO ONE can boast of saying they were saved because they trusted completely in someone elses work.
But if one person can boast because they were saved by a work they did. then that is a work of self righteousness.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Sacrament:
What Is a Sacrament? | Core Christianity
Many people think the sacraments are a pledge or dedication of our lives to God. But is that true?
I cannot copy all here or I will be out of characters...... but key points and then you can read the link for yourself.
A sacrament is a practice instituted by Christ himself.
Sacraments are not practices the church made up or that evolved over time. The sacraments are specific practices Christ himself gives to Christians for their sake. Thus, these things are vitally important for the church and Christians to practice and should always be done with the Word of God and in the way the Word of God commands them to be done.A sacrament is a sign and a seal.
The sacraments are means of grace.
While not the means of salvation itself, the sacraments serve to really and truly nourish and sustain a Christian’s faith. It is important to note that the sacraments are signs and seals of what Jesus did, not what Jesus does to save. By themselves, being baptized and eating some bread and wine do nothing. It is when the Holy Spirit works through them and the participant has faith that the person is renewed and refreshed and has communion with Christ himself.
There are two sacraments Christ instituted—baptism and the Lord’s Supper.
And in my denomination ONLY an ordained minister performs a baptism.
You say "I do not believe that there is any power whatsoever in the act of being immersed in water."
For the record i don't either. Water merely gets you wet.
But you muddy things with " I believe baptism is the occasion, the instant in life of the believer, when God forgives the believer's sins and gives him the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit."
And this tells everyone who reads you that it is your belief that God forgives the believer's sins IN THAT VERY INSTANT. Leave the Holy Spirit out of it at the moment.
So in essence your are in the Mark 16:16 camp of "He who believes and is baptised."
If without baptism you cannot be saved... then surly you can see why folks would say you believe baptism saves.
It beling the mechanism that God uses.
YES YOU DID... YOUR REPLY # 176 right in this subject.
You wrote.... But baptism is the occasion, the time in the life of the believer, when God has promised to save him. Can God saved one who has not been baptized. I suppose so; but God has not said so.
Ah, Eternally Grateful, my comedic compatriot, fear not, for the Calvinistic comedy is all in good theological jest! Let's unravel this divine banter with a touch of John Calvin's wit.
Quoting Calvin with a chuckle: John Calvin: "My dear friend, the Calvinistic chuckle is not mockery but a playful dance in the theological ballroom. As I penned in Institutes, Book 1, Chapter 17, Section 8, 'Let them rather let us laugh at their attempt.'"
Calvin on the dance of regeneration and faith: John Calvin: "Now, about regeneration and faith, it's not a mockery, but a divine comedy where faith responds to the orchestration of regeneration. As I noted in Institutes, Book 3, Chapter 2, Section 38, '...faith embraces that which is given to it, but faith has an obedience of its own.'"
Calvin chuckles at the misunderstandings: John Calvin: "Eternally Grateful, my dear interlocutor, misunderstandings abound like comedic twists, but let's not forget Romans 14:19, 'So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.'"
Cue the Calvinistic comedy duo: John Calvin: "Ah, Eternally Grateful, in the Calvinist Comedy Club, we're not just mocking; we're exploring the divine dance of theology with a dash of humor. The Gospel is our punchline, and the chuckles are the echoes of doctrinal debates."
So, my theological companion, let's keep the divine banter rolling, where laughter and wisdom coexist in the grand comedy of redemption. #CalvinistComedyClub #DivineBanterLaughs
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Man this works thing is sooooooooooo confusing.....
You dont work for your salvation in the sense that it is work... right?
But we have to.... " Paul spoke of the retribution to those who do not obey the gospel (2 Thess 1:5-8). Similarly, Peter spoke about the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel (1 Pet 4:17)
As we are told.....
Yet if one does not work they will die... as in 2 Thes 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. (Starvatuion = Death)
which is countered by John 6:27 who said “Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
Yep, confusing.....
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Listen and this is also aimed at me.
God does not rush anyone to understand his word...do you think you are behaving in a kind and loving way...or are you trying to make the poster look stupid?
I am trying to get a message across here?
God showed me how I was making some people look stupid..I suggest you reread what you post in future....then you and I can both do it together.....reread our own posts before we post....
Post in Jesus authority but also in kindness, respect and Love.
You think God is doing the believing for you? That's really weird.
They weren't asking what God would do? They were asking what they should do. And Jesus told them what they should do. If you do not understand that you are in real trouble.
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We are not saved by works of the law. But too many read that as anything we do is a work of the law. That is simply not true. There are a lot works that are not works of the law. Believing is but one of them. Believing is something that we do. It is a work. Jesus said it is a work. But obviously, it is not a work of the law.
Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
Rom 10:13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Confessing is something we do. It obviously is not a work of the law. but it is a work Calling on the name of the Lord is something we do. Obviously it is not a work of the law but it is something that we do.. Believing is something we do. Obviously it is not a work of the law. but it is something that we do. Believing, confessing, calling on the name of the Lord are all works, by definition, but they are not works of the law.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No. He brought me to the point of faith.
HE DID ALL THE WORK.
My faith can not save me,
I am saved by GRACE!! through faith.
They were still stuck in the law and thinking they had to work to earn salvation (like you are) so they asked him what work they must do
Jesus said it is the work of God.
they still did nto get it. And sadly it does not appear you do either.
Well aren't you the lucky one? That must really make you proud that God did that for you. If God did that for you, one has to wonder why He hasn't done that for everyone. Perhaps you could explain that to me. Why did He do all that work for you and not for the untold numbers of others?
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