The branch that doesn't abide gets burned. Couldn't be clearer.
Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life
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The branch issued from the Vine. It must have life to grow. At some point it ceases abiding and is unable to bear fruit and is eventually cast out and burned. 1 John 2:28, for this reason, warns the children to abide, so they won't draw back in shame (Heb 10:39) at Christ's appearance (shame describes the damned (Dn 12:2)), and they aren't abiding because they're disobeying God's twofold Law of Faith (1 Jn 3:23,24), and it is idolatry that leads them to break God's twofold Law of Faith whereby they are led away from abiding (1 Jn 5:21).
An example is the Galatians, who were "deserting Him Who calls you" (Gal 1:6), and "severed from Christ" (Gal 5:4), by following the false Gospel that did "not come from Him Who calls you" (Gal 5:8), which means it was a "doctrine of demons" (1 Ti 4:1), and "the idols the nations worship are demons" (Deut 32:16,17; Co 10:20).
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Lol.. Jesus said we will NEVER PERISH but have eternal life.
he said it numerous times in John 3 4 5 and 6 and other places.
he did not contradict himself by saying later they can die after they believe and they have conditional life.
Their may not be a calvinistic OSAS (fatalism) But eternal security is in scripture.. It is the BASES of christian growth and abiding in the vine..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I have considered it
God said I will never die, I believe him
God said I have eternal life. I believe him
God said I will never hunger or thirst, I believe him
God said he will raise on the last day. I believe him
God said I cannot be lost. I believe him.
God said he has perfected me forever. While I am being sanctified
God said I have been given the spirit as a seal until ressurection day, I believe him
God said I have been given every spiritual blessing. I believe him
God said he adopted me and made me his son, I believe him.
God said I am forgiven, I believe him
God said my sins he has cast as far as the east is from the rest, I believe him.
God said so much more. I believe him
Maybe you are trying to argue against a fatalistic doctrine of calvinism called OSAS.. i will argue right with you.
But if you’re going to argue I must work to keep my salvation. I can not be with you because that goes against Gods word.
The eternal life is only in the Son (1 Jn 5:11), hence only those who abide, by obeying the commands of God, are supplied with that substance/life/Spirit that is only in the Vine, but those who do not are burned (Jn 15; 1 Jn 3:23,24).
The question has never been about the eternality of the life, but the eligibility to receive it.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Jesus said I HAVE iT
He did not say I may have it
he said I will never die
he did not say I may never die.
Why do you insist on adding words or changing the meaning of words?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
There is only one thing we have to do to recieve it
Believe in him.
No one is eligible to recieve it because we all have, are sinning and falling short.
Again, Stop thinking yourself worthy
Sorry, that's not what is written. Read 1 John 3:23, 24 for instruction on how to abide then rejoin the discussion.
Yup, whoever has the Son has the life--never disagreed with that--but not all abide, and they don't retain the life.
Yup, those branches that don't bear fruit are cast forth and are burned. Couldn't be clearer. You think that's not a salvific issue--you can't, because your opinions are threatened by the Scripture, so you must reject the obvious truth, which is ridiculous.
The simplicity here is that you've inferred this from the passage, while the passage itself doesn't say this.
Jesus created all that was created, and in Him everything consists. We all have life because Jesus makes it so. All of us, no matter whether we are reborn or not.
Jesus already mentioned the one who abides in Him, yet does not bear fruit. The third branch does not abide in Him, and is not reborn. Yet even so, Jesus gives life to all who are alive.
Much love!
1 John 2:28 aims this language at "little children", therefore there is no question that it refers to God's children, true disciples with "true" faith.
Oops, He said "The one who IS BELIEVING" (continuous ongoing action in the present), not "the one who believes" (one-and-done), so, this goes to the "abiding" doctrine, which goes to the doctrine that continuing to receive the life depends on continuing to abide in Him where the life is.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
He said they will never die
this happens once you believe.
Just like the people who looked up to the serpent lived.
they did not have to keep looking
Why are you tryign to save yourself? Will you at least acknowledge you are trying to save yourself?
Even if I granted this argument, that it is necessary to believe this, it would be an argument for my case (that abiding depends, in part, on believing, and not all abide by obeying the command to believe--eg, the Galatians deserted God (1:6) and were severed from Christ (5:4) when they fell into de facto unbelief by believing a false Gospel).
"Is believing" means an ongoing action in the present, which speaks to the need to abide to continually receive the life. Already explained it. Yes, when you believe, you get the life. Never denied that. I only ALSO believe that it's not a one-time transaction. That's not what the text says.
Right, so you now openly admit that you're denying the Greek, which doesn't state "one and done, believe one time", but "is believing ongoing action on the present" by appealing to a mangling of another doctrine. You have to deny the "abide" doctrine. Your tradition can't handle it.
In reference to ing....
1. a suffix of nouns formed from verbs, expressing the action of the verb or it's RESULTS, ....
Romans 15:13 - Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
John 20:31 - But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Romans 10:17 - So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
1. a suffix of nouns formed from verbs, expressing the action of the verb or it's RESULTS, ....
Romans 15:13 - Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
John 20:31 - But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Romans 10:17 - So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
I agree many want the one and done of their salvation, not wanting to count the cost of self denial in following Christ.
No responsibility does NOT remove the fact there will be accountablility!
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