Who Really Are The 144,000?
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I know perfectly... who the SEED of Israel is, it is YOU that does not have a clue! The stupidity you try to do is to DISCARD the SEED of Israel out of God's Plan of Salvation. I've heard it many times before by those who HATE the SEED of Israel while trying to CLAIM they represent Christ's Church. Those who hate the SEED of Israel don't represent Christ's Church, they represent the devil himself.
The majority of the SEED of Israel, the TEN LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL, the CAUCASIAN peoples that migrated to the West from Assyria as Cimmerians and Scythians, make up the MAJORITY of Christ's Church today.
I quote Bible Scripture perfectly, and I don't ADD a bunch of baloney men's doctrines to it like you do.
You show your Biblical Illiteracy for all... to see!
I guess you never got to the next Romans 11 Chapter where Paul said ALL THE SEED OF ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED...
Rom 11:25-27
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
KJV
And you have the audactiy to LIE and say I don't know how to properly quote Scripture??
It is obvious that you ARE NOT who you say you are, coming here on a Christian forum trying to hide your hatred against God's people AND HIS WORD.
Reddsta
Member
This...albeit briefly explained...is actually how it will playout.
On top of it not being acceptable to kill other humans when one is a citizen of the kingdom of God here on earth...the son(s) of God do not require that type of protection. They conquer darkness completely...through the blood of the Lamb and the powerful word of his testimony. They triumphed because they did not love and cling to their own lives, even when faced with death.
This is where most folks would gain great faith from understanding who the "4 living creatures" are...somethin no one seems to want to discuss.
Being earth based yet spiritual citizens of the eternal kingdom of heaven...causes our loyalties to remain focused upon the culture and economy of our kingdom...only. When ones loyalties are divided...there is mixture in your belief system...one cannot mix...righteousness and unrighteousness...they do not mix.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Replacement theology.
Very poorly thought out, and romans reveals its erroneous existence.
No such thing as Replacement Theology. That is simply a biased made-up term by orthodox Jews.
The majority of the ten lost tribes of Israel being scattered, and winding up becoming the Western Christian nations of history is not a joke. It was God's Plan, even as Jacob told his son Joseph that Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations" (Genesis 48). That is Bible Scripture, NOT 'Replacement Theology'.
TribulationSigns
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Pathetic. The Seed is Christ. The Seed of Salvation. Not national Israel. Christ's Church only represents Himself, the Seed, in the New Testament. Not national Israel. You shall see.
LOL!! You are so stuck with geographic and people and yet do not spiritually understand who Seed is and the spiritual tribes of Israel are. :)
Even the Jewish leaders quoted Scripture and Christ said they do NOT understand it because they have carnal minds...like their cousins, the Dispensationalists. :)
The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with it. :)
It's you who is having a reading issue. Read verse 26 carefully. It said, "And so" which means "thus" or "in this way". Not, "and then." You are trying to declare that it says "and then" all Israel "will" be saved, it doesn't really say that at all!! Speaking of Israel it says part of it is blinded until the fullness of Gentiles come in (to Israel), and so all Israel shall be Saved. This is another very important distinction that is often merely glossed over by those who do not want to accept what is written here. Sorry, dude, you are wrong with your interpretation.
Again, The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with it. :)
Pathetic. The Seed is Christ. The Seed of Salvation. Not national Israel. Christ's Church only represents Himself, the Seed, in the New Testament. Not national Israel. You shall see.
LOL!! You are so stuck with geographic and people and yet do not spiritually understand who Seed is and the spiritual tribes of Israel are. :)
Even the Jewish leaders quoted Scripture and Christ said they do NOT understand it because they have carnal minds...like their cousins, the Dispensationalists. :)
The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with it. :)
It's you who is having a reading issue. Read verse 26 carefully. It said, "And so" which means "thus" or "in this way". Not, "and then." You are trying to declare that it says "and then" all Israel "will" be saved, it doesn't really say that at all!! Speaking of Israel it says part of it is blinded until the fullness of Gentiles come in (to Israel), and so all Israel shall be Saved. This is another very important distinction that is often merely glossed over by those who do not want to accept what is written here. Sorry, dude, you are wrong with your interpretation.
Again, The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with it. :)
Your credibility in interpreting The Word of God is in the dumps. What you say is NOT to be trusted.
TribulationSigns
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You only pile vanity upon vanity. You haven't gotten past the Romans 11 Scripture yet, so don't try to act like you understand Bible Scripture. God sees the deception of what you're trying to do.
TribulationSigns
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You haven’t refuted my position biblically. You quoted Romans 11 but refuse to explain the “and so” part of Roman’s 11:26. Instead you made childish false accusation against me. Typically. ;)
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Two Israels.
Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed
2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed
Only one of these two Israels shall be saved.
Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Only the faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel", comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.
The Light
Well-Known Member
This is not correct. The ten lost tribes of Israel do not make up the majority of Christ's Church today. Those of the 12 tribes of Israel that are scattered across the earth are blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
At that time there will be 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes. This is the second harvest which will be seed of the woman Israel. This will occur at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation.
Yes amen
Romans 11:26
26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved.As it is written:
“The deliverer (Jesus) will come from Zion;(national Israel)
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.(true Israel the faithful before and after the cross )
TribulationSigns
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Earburner
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But....what about Israel who were under the OC.? Year to year, they had their sins forgiven through the sacrificing of animals, of which that blood could not remove their sins, until the shedding of Christ's blood.
What happened to them, who had been slaughtered, martyred and did also die by natural death?
Did they not by faith look for the "Promised one to come"?
Do we not know of Simeon, who was promised in a vision by God, that he would see the Savior?
Did they not also have to meet the requirement to be "born again" by God's Holy Spirit"?
The permanency of God's Holy Spirit dwelling in anyone, WAS NOT Given to them, UNTIL after the sacrificial death of Christ. He died for the OC saints also!!
We see them in Rev. 6:9-11. The symbolic 144,000 (12 tribes × 12,000) ARE they who are shown "under the altar" of the OC., of which God DID NOT forget them, but purposely "remembered" them. Malachi 3:16.
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TribulationSigns
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By faith! Because they were saved BY FAITH looking forward to the finished work of Christ, and we on the New dispensation are saved BY FAITH looking BACKWARD to it. Nothing has changed in that we are ALL saved the EXACT same way, throughout the two distinct dispensations.
So were the Christians of the New Testament, whether Jewish or Gentiles, who have been slaughtered, martyred, and also died by natural death. If their bodies die before the first OR the second coming, their souls go up to Heaven to be with Christ
Yes. Moses was justified by the Cross. Elijah was justified by the Cross. David was justified by the Cross. They all died IN FAITH looking forward to Christ, and we stand here today justified BY FAITH looking backward to the Cross.
They all had the faith of Christ even though Christ had not come to earth as a man to sanctify them yet. When Christ prayed to the Father to sanctify them, He was praying that ALL of His people would have their sins washed away in His shed blood. From the sins of Abel, to the sins of David, to the sins of Peter, to the sins of you and I. These words uttered by Christ are for our learning, not His. He knew the end from the beginning, but this is spoken that we might believe that this was ordained from before the foundation of the world. That it is in His sanctification that they would all be sanctified. From Abel to Peter to you and me. The truth is, sanctification is the one act that reaches all the way back to the beginning to cover Abel (Adam and Eve included), and all the way forward to today to cover us. Though the ONE ACT of Christ making us all Holy, though it took place once over 2000 years and for all, the efficacy of it is through faith. Faith that Abel had, faith that David had, and faith that you have.
Hebrews 11:13
- "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."
Revelation 13:8-9
- "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
- If any man have an ear, let him hear."
Indeed, if any man has a spiritual ear, let him hear. By our sanctification having been ordained from before the foundation of the world, there is absolutely no chance that any elect has not been made Holy. From Moses to Peter To those today. All were sanctified the same way, by the same act of Christ, whose salvation efficacy was a foregone conclusion from God's perspective.
Okay...your point is?
They DID! As it is written, if you have an ear, let him hear. Consider wisely:
Zec 14:8-9
(8) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
(9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Christ is that LIVING WATER that went out from Jerusalem (Cross). This is talking about Him going forth to the Jew and Gentile. The former and hinder pertains to the "first and the last" that Christ references in His sermons, as it relates to salvation first to the Jews and also to the Gentiles. The Hebrew word "former" illustrating the Jews being the former or first of the sea, and the word "hinder" being those who come after or behind. In other words, the last. The living waters now go out to all the world, Jew and Gentile, and this seems also to be illustrated in the context of verse that follows.
Zechariah 14:9
- "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."
Ephesians 4:4-6
- "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
- One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
- One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
Of course. The Old Testament Saints received the Holy Spirit the same way we in the New Testament do, for the Holy Spirit went forth to the former sea (Jews first in Old Testmaent) and then the hinder sea (Gentiles in the New Testmaent).
The "souls of them" are all chosen believers who have physically died before the Second Coming, regardless of when they have died. They are not strictly the Old Covenant Jews, but also the New Covenant Saints.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Ref. Post #142.
Luke 19
[39] And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
[40] And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
[41] And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
[42] Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
[43] For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
[44] And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
When did the OC saints receive the Gift of God's Holy Spirit permanently?
You do know, but the teachings of church-ianity are running rampant in your mind.
Clue: "ye MUST BE born again".
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