The 144,000 before God at the end.

[Ronald David Bruno]

Were you unable to SEE Matt 23:37-39 & Zech ch14, as well as Romans ch11 that i confirmed?

Do you believe the Bible or not?

Answer a question with a question? We all believe in the Bible, but sometimes we interpret it differently. So you can believe in Romans 11 or Rev. 7 in a symbolic way, which is wrong and continue to claim you believe into those scriptures till the cows come home. Preterists believe in the book of Revelation ... but how much truth is in their view?
Non-Trinitarians claim they believe in the Bible, yet cannot see that Jesus is God or the Holy Spirit is God too.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

God's covenants with Israel were exclusively with those faithful and obedient to Him within the nation.

The corpses of tens of thousands of unfaithful disobedient Israelites whom He slew are a sober attestation to that reality.

Dead corpses? Everyone physically dies ... unless you are raptured.

 

[covenantee]

Dead corpses? Everyone physically dies ... unless you are raptured.

The unfaithful disobedient Israelites that God slew weren't raptured.

 

[The Light]

Silly Rabbit, JESUS is the Door and HE will not shut the door until HIS Second Coming = Matt ch24

And yet you thiink the second coming is at the end of the trumpets or vials when actually the second coming when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord is at the 6th seal.

The second advent is at the end of the trumpets or vials.

P.S. - Anointing Oil is the Holy Spirit of Truth which only fills you when you submit to the TRUTH.

There is a big difference between Anointing Oil and lamp oil. Lamp oil is used to see. The wise virgins see the coming of the Messiah and foolish don't. They think that He delays His coming until the end of wrath. The foolish don't believe the Lord that says He will come in an hour that we think not.

pre-trib rapture is man-made and is not found in the Holy Scriptures of Truth.

It is all over the scriptures for those that understand. The foolish cannot see and accept what is written. They have to change the Word of God to fit their beliefs. Instead of believing the Word that the 144,000, 12,000 from each tribe, are the first fruits of the second harvest, they have to change that to the Church because they cannot see that the Church is in heaven, as they have not lamp oil. They walk in blindness.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Who appointed you the authority on what is symbolic and what is not?

If 144K (an obviously symbolic number) Jews are literal, then so are their seals.

Specific names of tribes is never used to describe something symbolically. Example: In Luke 16, we see the Rich man in Hades, a real location and Lazarus AND Abraham in Paradise, two locations separated by a gulf. Many think this is a parable. Parables never use names of real people like Abraham. Jesus would not fictionalized a terrible place that doesn't exist to symbolically describe something else. That passage is to be taken literally.
A Dragon with ten heads and seven horns is obviously not to be taken literally. Demon scorpions are described in Revelation. They torture mankind for 5 months. Why describe how they appear if they really don't exist or mean something else. They will appear literally. Why use 125 words that specifically describe the names 12 tribes of Israel with a given number to be sealed if God intended it to mean something else, the Church. Why say these are male virgins, distinguishing them from females, if as Galatians claim there is neither male nor female ( which is speaking about our spiritual equality, UNLESS we are to take this literally, and that they are Jews from each tribe that has over many generations been preserved by God for this moment?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The unfaithful disobedient Israelites that God slew weren't raptured.

Nobody accept Enoch and Elijah has been raptured. That day for all Christianity is coming soon.

 

[covenantee]

Specific names of tribes is never used to describe something symbolically.

The truth that John was conveying was that there were faithful obedient saints of God to be found within every tribe.

Hence his use of tribal names.

Plus the significance of the meanings of the names of each of the tribes.

Entirely apropos.

 

[covenantee]

Nobody accept Enoch and Elijah has been raptured. That day for all Christianity is coming soon.

It didn't come for the unfaithful disobedient Israelites that God slew.

 

[David in NJ]

Answer a question with a question? We all believe in the Bible, but sometimes we interpret it differently. So you can believe in Romans 11 or Rev. 7 in a symbolic way, which is wrong and continue to claim you believe into those scriptures till the cows come home. Preterists believe in the book of Revelation ... but how much truth is in their view?
Non-Trinitarians claim they believe in the Bible, yet cannot see that Jesus is God or the Holy Spirit is God too.

Do you understand and agree with JESUS words in Matthew chapter 23 as it pertains to the flesh nation of Israel?

Do you understand that Matt 23:39 and Romans ch11 and Zechariah 14:1-5 are all occur at the SAME Event?

 

[David in NJ]

And yet you thiink the second coming is at the end of the trumpets or vials when actually the second coming when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord is at the 6th seal.

The second advent is at the end of the trumpets or vials.



There is a big difference between Anointing Oil and lamp oil. Lamp oil is used to see. The wise virgins see the coming of the Messiah and foolish don't. They think that He delays His coming until the end of wrath. The foolish don't believe the Lord that says He will come in an hour that we think not.


It is all over the scriptures for those that understand. The foolish cannot see and accept what is written. They have to change the Word of God to fit their beliefs. Instead of believing the Word that the 144,000, 12,000 from each tribe, are the first fruits of the second harvest, they have to change that to the Church because they cannot see that the Church is in heaven, as they have not lamp oil. They walk in blindness.

4 Facts that condemn the lie of pre-trib rapture.

#1 - The OT beginning in Genesis is Post-Trib Prophecy

#2 - JESUS is Post-Trib and JESUS spoke Post-Trib = Matthew ch24

#3 - The Apostles only wrote of Post-Trib

#4 - Revelation is Post Trib

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The truth that John was conveying was that there were faithful obedient saints of God to be found within every tribe.

Hence his use of tribal names.

Plus the significance of the meanings of the names of each of the tribes.

Entirely apropos.

Nope.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Do you understand and agree with JESUS words in Matthew chapter 23 as it pertains to the flesh nation of Israel?

Do you understand that Matt 23:39 and Romans ch11 and Zechariah 14:1-5 are all occur at the SAME Event?

You are asking me? I submitted Zech. 14 and Romans 11 in Post #93 to support my argument. You said none of those passages had anything to do with
Rev. 7 :3-8.
Matt. 23:39 and Rev. 7:3-8 coincide as well with those passages as happening during or just prior to the Great Tribulation. These all are to be taken literally. ;)
But I suspect what you are trying to do is to get me to disagree with something I was claiming just to test to see if I was just in an argumentive mode. And then turn around and say I gotcha.
I think I have had enough of this conversation, it's futile. Keep your view, I'll keep mine. Bye

 

[covenantee]

Nope.

You're welcome to your nope.

I'll stick with John.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The 144000 are missionaries. Who come from the tribes of Israel. Who go out into the world proclaiming christ to the lost

they will not be the only ones alive at his return.. We are not even told they all will be alive..

However, there will be many jews (who will be gathered and returned) and gentiles living at that time, they rest will be killed.

 

[David in NJ]

You are asking me? I submitted Zech. 14 and Romans 11 in Post #93 to support my argument. You said none of those passages had anything to do with
Rev. 7 :3-8.
Matt. 23:39 and Rev. 7:3-8 coincide as well with those passages as happening during or just prior to the Great Tribulation. These all are to be taken literally. ;)
But I suspect what you are trying to do is to get me to disagree with something I was claiming just to test to see if I was just in an argumentive mode. And then turn around and say I gotcha.
I think I have had enough of this conversation, it's futile. Keep your view, I'll keep mine. Bye

Your Post #93 has nothing to do with Revelation chapter 7

Revelation chapter 7 is not the 'restoration of the nation Israel' whereas Matt 23:39, Zech ch14 and Rom ch11 is.

Revelation chapter 7 is about the MOST Beautiful Body of Christ = Gospel, Ephesians ch2 , Galatians, 1 Cor ch12

 

[David in NJ]

144000 are missionaries. Who come from the tribes of Israel. The Who go out into the world proclaiming christ to the lost

they will not be the only ones alive at his return.. We are not even told they all will be alive..

However, there will be many jews (who will be gathered and returned) and gentiles living at that time, they rest will be killed.

Hello Brother
i know that this is a current common view on the 144k.

QUESTION: Can you find a scripture that confirms "144000 are missionaries. Who come from the tribes of Israel, preaching the Gospel"

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hello Brother
i know that this is a current common view on the 144k.

QUESTION: Can you find a scripture that confirms "144000 are missionaries. Who come from the tribes of Israel, preaching the Gospel"

They are sealed..

after than many a number we cant count, come out of tribulation who were also sealed.

So yes. It does not say that.. you’re right.

 

[David in NJ]

They are sealed..

after than many a number we cant count, come out of tribulation who were also sealed.

So yes. It does not say that.. you’re right.

Brother,
i would like to share these scriptures with you

John 6:27
"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13-14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed,
you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Corinthians 5:5
Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

1 Peter 1:5
who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal:
“The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

 

[The Light]

4 Facts that condemn the lie of pre-trib rapture.

Only in your mind due to lack of understanding.

#1 - The OT beginning in Genesis is Post-Trib Prophecy

Genesis - Noah in the ark 7 days before the flood.

The dead in Christ Rise.
Song of Solomon 2

8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

The alive that remain are caught up
Song of Solomon 2
13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.

#2 - JESUS is Post-Trib and JESUS spoke Post-Trib = Matthew ch24

Jesus did speak post trib and He also spoke pre trib - Luke 21
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

#3 - The Apostles only wrote of Post-Trib

We are told to watch over and over because He is coming in an hour that we think not. To those that look for Him He will appear a second time.

Hebrews 9
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

You are not watching because you think that He is coming ONLY after the tribulation.

#4 - Revelation is Post Trib

Revelation is pre trib, post trib which is pre wrath and post wrath. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal before the wrath of God begins.

Tomorrow will come and you will realize your error and lack of understanding. And then what will you do?

 

[David in NJ]

Only in your mind due to lack of understanding.

Genesis - Noah in the ark 7 days before the flood.

The dead in Christ Rise.
Song of Solomon 2

8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

The alive that remain are caught up
Song of Solomon 2
13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.




Jesus did speak post trib and He also spoke pre trib - Luke 21
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

We are told to watch over and over because He is coming in an hour that we think not. To those that look for Him He will appear a second time.

Hebrews 9
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

You are not watching because you think that He is coming ONLY after the tribulation.

Revelation is pre trib, post trib which is pre wrath and post wrath. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal before the wrath of God begins.

Tomorrow will come and you will realize your error and lack of understanding. And then what will you do?

All that and not one pre-trib rapture verse!