The 144,000 before God at the end.

[rebuilder 454]

There you have it, folks.

Dispens don't care about Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages.

They only care about 144K sex-starved Jews.

Yes, many are led astray by Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages

But no one is ever led astray by 144K sex-starved Jews.

Why didn't you answer the question about the literal seals on the literal virgins?

Don't you believe the Bible literally?

You perfectly epitomize 1 Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Being utterly devoid of spiritual discernment, Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages; are foolishness unto you.

The Pharisees would have applauded.

Unsurprisingly, you are unaware that I quoted Ephesians 1:13 as my second "sealed" verse. How is that?

Nope
You reject the obvious.
Pssst...they are the ONLY one mentioned because the church is not there.
Not only that, but they are firstfruits, and are separate from anyone else.
Also factor in that they are in heaven, taken from the earth, DURING the GT.

...and that is just a few components off the top of my head.

 

[amigo de christo]

I bet you can find at least 10 raptures in scripture.

i can only find one = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 2 Thessalonians ch2 and 1 Corinthians ch15

As i said a while back . men often see exactly what they want to see .
example . I have seen them teach that the beginning of chapter four in revelation is the RAPTURE .
rather odd though . PAUL was caught up to heaven too but he too never called it a rapture .
SEE , the pre trib is already using chapter four WAY OUT OF TEXT to support their own ideals .
John was simply caught up to heaven by the SPIRIT to see the LORDS DAY .
Just as paul was caught up to the third heaven . Not one scripture supports a pre trib.
Scripture supports THIS and this alone . WE , as in the lambs , WONT BE GOING UNDER GODS WRATH .
same scriptures support the FACT , however , that in THIS LIFE WE HAD BETTER BE PREPARED to be PERSECUTED .
THAT indeed we are appointed unto TRIBULATION .

 

[amigo de christo]

View attachment 35073

minus the long hair and perhaps porcelian skin , THAT looks like my expression every time that pope moveth its lips .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yall be blessed now .

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[covenantee]

Nope
You reject the obvious.
Pssst...they are the ONLY one mentioned because the church is not there.
Not only that, but they are firstfruits, and are separate from anyone else.
Also factor in that they are in heaven, taken from the earth, DURING the GT.

...and that is just a few components off the top of my head.

Got those literal seals figured out yet?

 

[The Light]

There you have it, folks.

Dispens don't care about Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages.

They only care about 144K sex-starved Jews.

Yes, many are led astray by Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages.

But no one is ever led astray by 144K sex-starved Jews.

You seem to be mocking Gods desire that we walk in the spirit and not the flesh. These Christians are sold out to the truth and aren't just 1 hour Christians.

Why didn't you answer the question about the literal seals on the literal virgins?

I did. Are you unable to comprehend these words.

Ephesians 1
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Don't you believe the Bible literally?

Sure. Why wouldn't I. And if the Word speaks of symbols, it is clear enough.

Rev 1
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

You perfectly epitomize 1 Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Your being utterly devoid of spiritual discernment, Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages; are foolishness unto you.

The Pharisees would have applauded.

You think you have discernment? Discern this.

Romans 11
]
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Unsurprisingly, you are unaware that I quoted Ephesians 1:13 as my third "sealed" passage. How is that?

You said you were curious about the literal seals and wanted evidence of such. The fact that you are unaware that you already had the answer you were searching for, does not change my answer.

 

[covenantee]

Romans 11
]
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

 

[The Light]

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Its all about timing and the 144,000 are first fruits of the second harvest.

 

[David in NJ]

Hmmm
You answer in context is proclaiming your doctrine as devine?
Omission if verses is your doctrines incubator.
Omit the pretrib rapture verses... And....POOOOF.. a postrib rapture magically appears.
You are backed into a proverbial corner with the "one coming" nonsense

What pre-trib verses?

Oh Yeah, God never spoke a single pre-trib rapture declaration = so you won't find any in the Holy Scriptures.

Your BEST bet is in the 'Left-Behind' series of books.

 

[David in NJ]

Excellent. Now all you have to do is realize that the fullness of the Gentiles comes in first before part of the Jews can see. God then turns His attention to the people of Daniel as the final week begins.

First the Gentiles and then the 12 tribes which is exactly why there are 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest.

It's all about timing and the plan God has made. He tells us the plan...........try to keep up brother.

Have you never read "What God has put together let no man separate."

 

[covenantee]

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Its all about timing and the 144,000 are first fruits of the second harvest.

1 Thessalonians 2

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

 

[The Light]

1 Thessalonians 2

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Romans 11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

 

[marks]

We have things becoming very clear and unveiling right before our eyes in these last days, so lets take a look at those who will be standing before God as the 144,000..

I think they are in fact who the Bible declares them to be, 12,000 each from 12 tribes of Israel, no substitutions. God won't have any issues knowing who they are.

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

Romans 11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Speaking of twisting things...............

You have not one shred of Scriptural evidence that God has separated 144K Jews from the Body of Christ.

None of those scriptures speak of 144k Jews of the flesh.

The remnant of Jews and the remnant of Gentiles whom the LORD calls are One Body = the Body of Christ who is the Israel of God.

They will be grafted in to the Vine. Read Romans 11. You hung up on Replacement Theology. It's okay, believe what you want, go your way. I would like to add, those who believe this way are usually anti-Semitic. Watch out.
I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” Gen. 12:3

 

[ScottA]

We have things becoming very clear and unveiling right before our eyes in these last days, so lets take a look at those who will be standing before God as the 144,000..

“1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.”Revelation 14:1-5.

Now those who stand at the end while Christ still intercedes for us in the Most Holy Place will need to like Him. Christ kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the end

So we have a world who are not all Gods people, composed of two groups, the true followers of God and then the others whose hearts and minds are not cleansed and not ready for Christ, this is the church militant. So there are those on the side of Satan will be left out and will perish, and the people who are His, sealed and prepared to go with Christ to His kingdowm.

We find in 2 Corinthians 1:21-23

“21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts”

So the saints throughout the ages have been sealed, and yet those who are the 144,000 also need to be sealed as they prepare for the coming of the Lord. Now is the time to prepare, not at when its too late and Christ has appeared and probation closed. The seal of God needs to be put on His people before the Second Coming, but some think they can continue in sin and iniquity till Christ comes.

Hebrews describes the role of Jesus as our mediator in heaven. We read in John 16:25-27..

“25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.”

So a time will come when Jesus will not pray to the Father on our behalf, because we will know that “the Father himself loves us.” In John 16, Jesus promises us a time will come when we won’t have a mediator because we won’t need one for those that truly know and love Christ. So the 144,000 are sealed and alive at the Second Coming and stand without a mediator, but then why only 144,000. I think we can find that answer in the following verse, Daniel 12:1...

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." Daniel 12:1.

The time of trouble such as never was will be devastating, and many even of the saints will not live through it and be put to sleep in the grave during this time. It is the living saints who are the 144,000 at the end, while those saints asleep in Christ who are sealed, will be brought up in the clouds to be taken to heaven.

Unfortunately, that is what has been wrongly taught.

To be clear, "There is none righteous, no, not one." Certainly not 144,000.

The words are spirit. "An hundred forty and four thousand" simply means all (translated "thousand") of all the twelve tribes times "another fold" (another twelve), meaning all who are chosen of the Jews and also the gentiles.

 

[David in NJ]

They will be grafted in to the Vine. Read Romans 11. You hung up on Replacement Theology. It's okay, believe what you want, go your way. I would like to add, those who believe this way are usually anti-Semitic. Watch out.
I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” Gen. 12:3

Anti-semtic???
LOL - You can ask my Jewish wife and the chabbad rabbi who i am friends with, along with my other Jewish friends.

Actually it is 'pre-trib' rapture delusion that uses replacement theology.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

19Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

 

[covenantee]

They will be grafted in to the Vine. Read Romans 11. You hung up on Replacement Theology. It's okay, believe what you want, go your way. I would like to add, those who believe this way are usually anti-Semitic. Watch out.
I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” Gen. 12:3

Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[covenantee]

They will be grafted in to the Vine. Read Romans 11. You hung up on Replacement Theology. It's okay, believe what you want, go your way. I would like to add, those who believe this way are usually anti-Semitic. Watch out.
I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” Gen. 12:3

Dispensationalism is enslaved by Replacement Biology racism, which seeks to divide the Body of Christ by DNA.

Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

But God is not a racist, and those in Christ, who are Abraham's seed, cannot be anti-Semitic, which is racist.

But they can and must be anti-Talmudic, which identifies today's Judaism, a religion of antichrist. 1 John 2:22-23