The Orthodox Preterist versus the Heretical Dispensationalist
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Grace and peace to you also! Grace and peace and love be multiplied unto you!
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Faith and obedience! You cannot go wrong! Trust and obey, there's no other way to be happy in Jesus!
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No, his point is that some/many who did not descend from Israel are of Israel, even though those who are ethnic Jews will be jealous, which is finally what Paul says in Romans 11, that "...salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous... if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!" And then in virtually the same breath, "Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved..."
The dispensational argument has no real merit.
Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Yes, there it is... LOL! Wow.
Yes, sometimes people say, um, "stuff," and there are just... no... words... :)
Grace and peace to you.
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I'm preaching to the choir, here, I realize, but what Peter says in 1 Peter 2:9 is astonishing, and would have been absolutely shocking to his Jewish hearers. He was speaking to Gentiles using God's exact words through Moses in Exodus 19, just after He brought them out of Egypt and slavery. Just that alone should be enough, here, but alas... :)
Grace and peace to you, Covenantee.
I'm not actually getting into dispensational arguments. I'm pointing to the Scriptures, and in particular a great many prophecies, and am simply saying that they will be fulfilled as written.
One of my thoughts about interpreting Scripture is that if your conclusions lead you to the place where you end up saying, "Yes, it says THAT, but it means THIS", when you get to that point, I suggest, relook at your understandings until you don't have to discount a single passage.
That's what I do, and I find an harmonious whole. A glorious plan!
Much love!
That is our spiritual connection to Isreal. We have the same father, as it were.
Much love!
I thought this was covered previously, just the same, Context is king . . .
1 Peter 2:7-10 KJV
7) Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8) And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
These were designations given to Israel through Hosea. And of course the holy nation, and a kingdom of priests, was God's covenant with Israel.
1 Peter 1:1-2 LITV
1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, of Galatia, of Cappadocia, of Asia, and of Bithynia,
2) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied to you.
These were Jews that were "scattered like seed" (diaspora) from Israel. Peter addressed his letter to the Jews scattered in other lands, actually.
Much love!
Ohhhh... you are. :) Maybe you don't realize it, but... you are. :)
The only thing I'm "discounting" ~ discrediting, actually ~ are your (dispensational) arguments, Marks.
Right, but you discount what the writer of Hebrews says about God having spoken to our fathers long ago, but through Jesus in these last days. Which is to say you're the one discounting, ignoring, not believing... ~ or how ever we might characterize it ~ Scripture. Now, do you mean to be? Well no, of course not, but you are.
Well that's one way of backing out... :) But yes, probably a good idea that we drop this for now, for sure.
Jews in the exact same sense that Paul did, yes:
"For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God." (Paul, Romans 2:28-29)
Grace and peace to you, Marks.
It was and is God's covenant with His Chosen Faithful Obedient People throughout the ages; today, His Church.
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
That's unmistakably His Church, using metaphors reserved for His Church, comprised of faithful obedient Jews and Gentiles.
And no others.
They were scattered faithful obedient Israelite Christians, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles.
God was not and is not a racist.
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No, in fact, I'm not making dispensational arguments. I'm making arguments based on the sayings of these passages. You may see dispensational idea represented in some way, however, my argument concerns the reliability of God's Word, and how no passage of Scripture negates the prophecies to Israel, God's promises to them.
If anything, you are saying that the current dispensation is so completely different from the previous, that nothing from the previous remains, effectively wiping out the entire OT except as an history book.
I've heard it said that over 1/4 to 1/3 of the Bible is prophecy. A great deal of that is contained in the OT, and concerns the earth and it's inhabitants all the way through the end of the age. And a significant portion of this body of prophecy pertains to Israel, all the way through the end of the age.
I'm asserting that in fact these prophecies are to be believed. God authenticates Himself in His being the One and Only who can accurately tell us what will happen before it does. I happen to think this is true, that He IS the only One. Actually it's why I first became a Christian. I learned that what He said would happen does, contrary to all others. So I decided to listen to the rest of what He said.
We take the entire context of Scripture, we listen to every last thing it says, and we add absolutely nothing into it. I believe that as we look at every passage posted as if it somehow said that God was not going to restore Israel as promised, that none actually do say that, and all pertain to something else. And meanwhile we find in both OT and NT the affirmations that God will in fact keep His promises.
So my argument is from the Grammatical/Historical Hermenuetic, and the Reliability of Scripture.
Much love!
Are you saying it would be racist of God to choose one nation from among, say, 70, to single them out for blessing?
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That's not how that expression was used. It had a very specific meaning in that day. Even now the Jews know exactly what that means.
The Diaspora is a certain thing.
Much love!
It would be racist of God to choose any race to the exclusion of any other races.
You should review the post describing the racial composition of ancient Israel.
Israelites were both Jews and Gentiles, and both were in the diaspora.
Knowledgeable Christians know what it means.
From the Greek:
3927 [e]
parepidēmois
παρεπιδήμοις
sojourners
Adj-DMP
" in the N. T. metaphorically, in reference to heaven as the native country, one who sojourns on earth: so of Christians, 1 Peter 1:1"
Explain how spiritual discernment (1 Corinthians 2:14) is part of your hermeneutic.
Remember . . . the choosing was of Abraham, and his descendants. It was to Abraham that God promised the land, the Promised Land. The promise was repeated to Isaac, and then to Jacob. It was fulfilled when God called Israel out of Egypt, and then into the land, giving allotments to each of the tribes except Levi, to whom God gave Himself.
There was a mixed multitude who went with Israel out of Egypt. We actually have no idea how many of them were there to enter the promised land. God has always taken in strangers to be a part of the nation of Israel. Much is the Law concerns "the stranger within your border", recognizing two interesting things. One is that they are in fact a "stranger", that is, of a different ethnic origin, and they are "within your border", that is, a particular nation.
So even in the mixed multitude these distinctions are maintained.
The promise was to Abraham, and his children through Isaac, then Jacob, and was fulfilled in the allotment of land "by tribe".
God in fact DID choose one nation from among the others.
Deuteronomy 7:6-8 KJV
6) For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8) But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 14:2 KJV
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
Much love!
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