Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

[St. SteVen]

Seems that biblical understanding has more to do with religious upbringing and environment than the content of the Bible.

I imagine that a young Catholic learns that Mary is the Mother of God based on the statement of the angel,
“Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” - Luke 1:28 NIV

I was raised Protestant, so I am only guessing at how that actually happens in Catholicism.
But obviously an environment with statues of Mary and Rosary beads has a lot of impact on the meaning.
This creates a religious preconception.

As a Protestant, we read past that statement without dwelling on it much.
To us, it was a story about Jesus and his earthly mother. This also creates a religious preconception.

As the young person, whether Catholic or Protestant, matures in their religious upbringing,
these compounded preconceptions form a doctrinal understanding. A basis to work from; a point of view.

When this maturing person hears something outside the realm of their religious preconception it strikes them as wrong.

Apologetics are there to bolster one's own religious preconceptions. They have theirs, and you have yours.
This is where the battle lines are drawn. "We believe such and so, because..."

It's easy to identify a religious cult. They meet in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you. --- Where does this leave us?

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

 

[Nancy]

Seems that biblical understanding has more to do with religious upbringing and environment than the content of the Bible.

I imagine that a young Catholic learns that Mary is the Mother of God based on the statement of the angel,
“Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” - Luke 1:28 NIV

I was raised Protestant, so I am only guessing at how that actually happens in Catholicism.
But obviously an environment with statues of Mary and Rosary beads has a lot of impact on the meaning.
This creates a religious preconception.

As a Protestant, we read past that statement without dwelling on it much.
To us, it was a story about Jesus and his earthly mother. This also creates a religious preconception.

As the young person, whether Catholic or Protestant, matures in their religious upbringing,
these compounded preconceptions form a doctrinal understanding. A basis to work from; a point of view.

When this maturing person hears something outside the realm of their religious preconception, it strikes them as wrong.

Apologetics are there to bolster one's own religious preconceptions. They have theirs, and you have yours.
This is where the battle lines are drawn. "We believe such and so, because..."

It's easy to identify a religious cult. They meet in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you. --- Where does this leave us?

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

There is lot's of truth in what you say St.S.
Calvinists down Armenians and visa versa, SDA's down Catholics and (quietly) down any who worship on a Sunday.
I was born and raised Catholic until the age of 12 or 13ish, my mom changed to a Lutheran Church. I went with her and some of my younger siblings for awhile but, when I hit my mid to late teens, the world and all the jingles and jangles of the world allured me away for sometime until I was in my mid 30's then it was time to find a church I could feel I belonged.

Honestly, I don't think true and perfect unity is even possible at this point. Many Christians have learned to hate and call it love. There is a way to speak truth to a person and it is not badgering over and over again...and it involves much prayer and patience.
"A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." Prov. 15:1. We should all be kind, gentle, long suffering, peaceful, joyful and so on. Fruit of The Spirit is what most it seems, lack. Including myself in this.

Yes, our relationship with The Lord is for sure individualized, yet there are some core doctrines that I believe must be addressed like, Jesus came IN THE FLESH and died and rose again for our sins to be paid for. There are other things that cannot be discussed on the site at this time, for good reason. If I go to a Catholic funeral at a catholic Church, or a wedding...I could not take The Lord's supper with them as we do not agree on the elements, so it would not be in faith if taken.

Many preconceptions attach to us early on and we, being ignorant of the scriptures or listening to some pastors who are ALSO ignorant of the scriptures, run with it and think we have it all figured out, ha! Nobody does, IMHO. What I read is mostly clear (to me) other scripture takes some time to allow the Holy Spirit to open up wisdom and clarity so as to honestly and finally "get it".

Good subject St. S.!

 

[St. SteVen]

"A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger." Prov. 15:1.

Thanks for mentioning one of my favorite scriptures.
If a person only learned ONE THING from the Bible about how to live with others,
this one verse IF APPLIED puts you miles ahead of most.

I have literally had people apologize to me after their angry words, when I didn't return fire.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, our relationship with The Lord is for sure individualized, yet there are some core doctrines that I believe must be addressed like, Jesus came IN THE FLESH and died and rose again for our sins to be paid for.

The Creed is a good benchmark for common doctrine. Even some disagreement there from some.
And discussion warranted about definitions and clarification needed.
Personally, I think the questions are more important than the answers.

There are other things that cannot be discussed on the site at this time, for good reason.

And others for NOT so good reasons. - LOL

Many preconceptions attach to us early on and we, being ignorant of the scriptures or listening to some pastors who are ALSO ignorant of the scriptures, run with it and think we have it all figured out, ha! Nobody does, IMHO.

Yes, we put so much trust in those who oversaw our religious upbringing.
Not learn later in life that not everyone was raised the same can be a shock.

What I read is mostly clear (to me) other scripture takes some time to allow the Holy Spirit to open up wisdom and clarity so as to honestly and finally "get it".

The lens of our preconceptions would never lie to us... wait... that's not true. - LOL
Learning to follow the Spirit is key to wisdom and clarity, as you wrote.
Then we can START to the puzzle together.

Good subject St. S.!

Thanks.
Your participation is MUCH appreciated.

 

[Nancy]

The Creed is a good benchmark for common doctrine. Even some disagreement there from some.
And discussion warranted about definitions and clarification needed.
Personally, I think the questions are more important than the answers.

And others for NOT so good reasons. - LOL

Yes, we put so much trust in those who oversaw our religious upbringing.
Not learn later in life that not everyone was raised the same can be a shock.

The lens of our preconceptions would never lie to us... wait... that's not true. - LOL
Learning to follow the Spirit is key to wisdom and clarity, as you wrote.
Then we can START to the puzzle together.

Thanks.
Your participation is MUCH appreciated.

"And others for NOT so good reasons. - LOL" Tru dat brother lol.

 

[Keturah]

To the OP

Ephesians 4:13-15 KJV

13 Till we all come in the unity of the  faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the STATURE OF THE FULNESS OF CHRIST :​

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait TO DECEIVE;
15 BUT SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

 

[St. SteVen]

To the OP

Ephesians 4:13-15 KJV

13 Till we all come in the unity of the  faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the STATURE OF THE FULNESS OF CHRIST :​

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait TO DECEIVE;
15 BUT SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

If this actually means doctrinal unity, when do you think this will happen?

 

[Keturah]

If this actually means doctrinal unity, when do you think this will happen?

The tares & wheat grow together, it will be up to God @ the great separation whom followed his doctrines!

We can be deceived by our own hearts. Therefore we must be completely  open to God, his word & his Spirit !
He does the correcting if we are open & honest.

In this age & lifetime, there is a unity of faith, in the Spirit, both the spirit of man & the Spirit of God, however I do not see it as a happening that ALL will see or have knowledge of. The Lord knows those that are his and the household of faith recognize one another by his Spirit !

 

[St. SteVen]

The tares & wheat grow together, it will be up to God @ the great separation whom followed his doctrines!

We can be deceived by our own hearts. Therefore we must be completely  open to God, his word & his Spirit !
He does the correcting if we are open & honest.

In this age & lifetime, there is a unity of faith, in the Spirit, both the spirit of man & the Spirit of God, however I do not see it as a happening that ALL will see or have knowledge of. The Lord knows those that are his and the household of faith recognize one another by his Spirit !

How ironic.
Unity is marked by divisiveness.
Which boils down to simple tribalism.

Any tribe is united. That's not the point of the unity of the faith, is it?
Seems meaningless to me. What's the point of stating the obvious?

 

[Keturah]

 

[Keturah]

And your point @St. SteVen
Isssssss?
Did you define exactly what is the doctrinal content of perception & spirituality?

 

[amadeus]

If this actually means doctrinal unity, when do you think this will happen?

When will the Bride come together with the Bridegroom to be One? We may not know, but it would be a good idea for us to do what is necessary to be a part of the Bride! Just what is required of the Bride or of the component members of the Bride?

 

[St. SteVen]

And your point @St. SteVen
Isssssss?
Did you define exactly what is the doctrinal content of perception & spirituality?

Was I supposed to define "perception & spirituality"?
Where did this come from?

 

[St. SteVen]

When will the Bride come together with the Bridegroom to be One? We may not know, but it would be a good idea for us to do what is necessary to be a part of the Bride! Just what is required of the Bride or of the component members of the Bride?

Interesting question, thanks.

 

[amadeus]

When will the Bride come together with the Bridegroom to be One? We may not know, but it would be a good idea for us to do what is necessary to be a part of the Bride! Just what is required of the Bride or of the component members of the Bride?

“By night on my bed I sought him whom my soul loveth: I sought him, but I found him not.

I will rise now, and go about the city in the streets, and in the broad ways I will seek him whom my soul loveth: I sought him, but I found him not.

The watchmen that go about the city found me: to whom I said, Saw ye him whom my soul loveth? {watchmen? hmmm = to pastors of various churches? Do any of them really know how and where to find the Bridegroom?}

It was but a little that I passed from them, but I found him whom my soul loveth: I held him, and would not let him go, until I had brought him into my mother's house, and into the chamber of her that conceived me.” Song 3:1-4

Where is my mother's house? Who is my mother?

“There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number. [all of the various

My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.” Song 6:8-9


Is "my dove" equal to the Bride of Christ?

 

[Nancy]

“By night on my bed I sought him whom my soul loveth: I sought him, but I found him not.

I will rise now, and go about the city in the streets, and in the broad ways I will seek him whom my soul loveth: I sought him, but I found him not.

The watchmen that go about the city found me: to whom I said, Saw ye him whom my soul loveth? {watchmen? hmmm = to pastors of various churches? Do any of them really know how and where to find the Bridegroom?}

It was but a little that I passed from them, but I found him whom my soul loveth: I held him, and would not let him go, until I had brought him into my mother's house, and into the chamber of her that conceived me.” Song 3:1-4

Where is my mother's house? Who is my mother?

“There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number. [all of the various

My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.” Song 6:8-9


Is "my dove" equal to the Bride of Christ?

Huh, what a good question! Song of Solomon is not a book I have paid much attention to yet, it IS in the bible. I had better brush up!

 

[amadeus]

Huh, what a good question! Song of Solomon is not a book I have paid much attention to yet, it IS in the bible. I had better brush up!

In my own Bible in pencil I indicate when the Bride is speaking and when Jesus [the Bridegroom] is speaking and when 'others' are speaking. For example: Chap 1:2 the Bride begins speaking, Ch 1:8 Jesus begins speaking, Ch 1:12 the Bride speaks again... and so forth.

I have mentioned on this forum in the past, but not many were interested or understood or agreed. God gives the increase!

 

[St. SteVen]

Is "my dove" equal to the Bride of Christ?

Perhaps.
But who are the concubines; and does this scripture describe premarital sex?
She took him to where her mother had conceived her? Why? (see vs 4)

 

[Gottservant]

I think diversity of doctrine, is supposed to give you a choice - as someone said "you can trust Calvinism or you can trust Armenianism". We are moving into the Age of the Holy Spirit, I suppose there will be doctrinal divisions regarding that, as well. What is missing is "how does doctrine, reach the lost?" - it may reaffirm the believer, but you have to want to be a believer first. I guess that is the Mystery of God, even though doctrine is there, He doesn't force it on anyone (and so our attention shifts to good works, which He is able to do something about!)

 

[Bob Estey]

Seems that biblical understanding has more to do with religious upbringing and environment than the content of the Bible.

I imagine that a young Catholic learns that Mary is the Mother of God based on the statement of the angel,
“Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” - Luke 1:28 NIV

I was raised Protestant, so I am only guessing at how that actually happens in Catholicism.
But obviously an environment with statues of Mary and Rosary beads has a lot of impact on the meaning.
This creates a religious preconception.

As a Protestant, we read past that statement without dwelling on it much.
To us, it was a story about Jesus and his earthly mother. This also creates a religious preconception.

As the young person, whether Catholic or Protestant, matures in their religious upbringing,
these compounded preconceptions form a doctrinal understanding. A basis to work from; a point of view.

When this maturing person hears something outside the realm of their religious preconception, it strikes them as wrong.

Apologetics are there to bolster one's own religious preconceptions. They have theirs, and you have yours.
This is where the battle lines are drawn. "We believe such and so, because..."

It's easy to identify a religious cult. They meet in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you. --- Where does this leave us?

Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey

Yes, we should constantly be in prayer (1 Thessalonians 5:17), learning from the Lord.