22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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Spiritual Israelite

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More hogwash . . .

Can YOU show me where Sola Scriptura (Scripture ALONE) is definitively taught in the NT?
How about Sola Fide (Faith Alone)?

Those are the 2 main pillars of Protestantism.
That isn't what I was talking about. Of course, there are true things taught in other sources. I had a math book as a kid that told me 1 + 1 = 2. That is true despite not being scripture. So, I'm not talking about "Sola Scriptura". It figures you would miss the point. What I'm saying is that you believe things that contradict what is taught in NT scriptures. Do you think there are any false teachings in the NT?
 

covenantee

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I guess we'll have to do the the preschool way . . .

Open you Bible to Matthew 12:42.
Do you see a cross-reference icon or number next too that verse.
Do you see a footnote at the bottom of the page?

If so - congratulations.
I've searched a DOZEN or so Protestant translations that didn't.
So in papistry, icons, numbers, and footnotes are inspired Scripture written by (in this case) Matthew.

Keep those guffaws coming.
 
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BreadOfLife

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LOL. For you to tell someone else to get over themselves is the funniest and most ironic thing anyone can ever say. If I'm a Protestant by your definition, good for you. I'm not by my definition. Who cares, anyway?
That's because you're a moral relativist.
It's your defining characteristic.

There is NO such thing as "your truth vs my truth".
There is ONLY truth.

You like to focus on meaningless things like this to distract from the fact that your Catholic doctrines are a joke. Go kiss the pope's feet or drink some of Jesus's blood or something since those are activities that you approve of wholeheartedly.
No - I focus on this because it ALL comes down to Authority.

WHICH Church has the Authority of Jesus per Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23"
Certainly NOT you.
It's the SAME Church that declared the Canon of Scripture at the Synod of Rome in 383 AD - and again at the Councils of Hippo (393 and
Carthage (397).

It's the Catholic Church - the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered - and continues to splinter to the tune of tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have ben "led" to this confusion by the Holy Spirit.

What a mess . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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That isn't what I was talking about. Of course, there are true things taught in other sources. I had a math book as a kid that told me 1 + 1 = 2. That is true despite not being scripture. So, I'm not talking about "Sola Scriptura". It figures you would miss the point. What I'm saying is that you believe things that contradict what is taught in NT scriptures. Do you think there are any false teachings in the NT?
Nope.
There are false teachings in Protestantism - like Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Limited Atonement, Eternal Security, etc.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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That's because you're a moral relativist.
It's your defining characteristic.
LOL! I'm a moral relativist because I don't let other people define what I believe? LOL! Keep the laughs coming, son. Do you have a PayPal account or Venmo or something that you can give me the info for? I feel like I should be paying you for all the laughs you've given me.

There is NO such thing as "your truth vs my truth".
There is ONLY truth.
Okay, drama queen. When labels are this important to you, you know that you have issues and need to re-evaluate your life.

No - I focus on this because it ALL comes down to Authority.

WHICH Church has the Authority of Jesus per Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23"
Certainly NOT you.
The church built upon the cornerstone of Jesus Christ Himself as well as all of the apostles and prophets (Ephesians 1:19-22). But, perhaps Ephesians 1:19-22 is not in your false Bible which would explain why you are not aware of this.

It's the SAME Church that declared the Canon of Scripture at the Synod of Rome in 383 AD - and again at the Councils of Hippo (393 and Carthage (397).

It's the Catholic Church - the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered - and continues to splinter to the tune of tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have ben "led" to this confusion by the Holy Spirit.

What a mess . . .
Your worship your false Church instead of Jesus Himself, the Rock and cornerstone of the church. May God have mercy on your soul for your idol worship.
 

BreadOfLife

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So in papistry, icons, numbers, and footnotes are inspired Scripture written by (in this case) Matthew.

Keep those guffaws coming.
So - YOU Bible doesn't t have footnotes and cross-references??
Too bad.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Nope.
There are false teachings in Protestantism - like Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Limited Atonement, Eternal Security, etc.
Okay, you don't think there are any false teachings in the NT. So, why do you believe things that contradict things that are not taught in the NT then? You focus on some things that Calvinists believe, which I agree are false. But, there are other things that you believe besides those things that are false and contradict NT teachings. Such as the fact that the church is built upon the Rock and Cornerstone of Jesus Christ, not Peter (Ephesians 1:19-22). Peter is merely ONE of the many apostles and prophets that make up the foundation of the church. You putting Peter and his supposed successors on a pedestal is contrary to NT teaching.

Also, there's your belief that Mary was sinless. That blatantly contradicts this verse from the NT:

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

No one is saved apart from repentance and faith in Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12, John 14:6). That includes Mary. If she was sinless then you are equating her with Jesus Himself, but scripture says He was the only one without sin. If she was sinless, then she could have died for our sins instead of Jesus! What a ridiculous belief! I guarantee she is completely embarrassed by the false things that Catholics believe about her.
 
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BreadOfLife

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LOL! I'm a moral relativist because I don't let other people define what I believe? LOL! Keep the laughs coming, son. Do you have a PayPal account or Venmo or something that you can give me the info for? I feel like I should be paying you for all the laughs you've given me.
I don't charge for Apologetics.
Consider this a FREE lesson . . .
Okay, drama queen. When labels are this important to you, you know that you have issues and need to re-evaluate your life.
REALLY??
That's the BEST you can do??

I must have really hurt your feelings . . .

The church built upon the cornerstone of Jesus Christ Himself as well as all of the apostles and prophets (Ephesians 1:19-22). But, perhaps Ephesians 1:19-22 is not in your false Bible which would explain why you are not aware of this.
Ummmm, if it weren't for the Catholic Church - you wouldn't even HAVE a Bible, Einstein . . .
Your worship your false Church instead of Jesus Himself, the Rock and cornerstone of the church. May God have mercy on your soul for your idol worship.
And if you knew your Bible - you would know that Jesus identified His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5, Eph. 1:22-23).

Do your HOMEWORK, dude . . .
 

Spiritual Israelite

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So - YOU Bible doesn't t have footnotes and cross-references??
Too bad.
Are you being purposely dense? He is saying those footnotes and cross references themselves are not scripture. Very simple. Is this too hard for you to understand, Einstein, Junior?
 

Illuminator

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LOL. For you to tell someone else to get over themselves is the funniest and most ironic thing anyone can ever say. If I'm a Protestant by your definition, good for you. I'm not by my definition. Who cares, anyway? You like to focus on meaningless things like this to distract from the fact that your Catholic doctrines are a joke. Go kiss the pope's feet or drink some of Jesus's blood or something since those are activities that you approve of wholeheartedly.
Now you're getting violent.
Kissing someone's feet is a sign of respect not found in America, the 'sole rule of all cultures'. You mock our beliefs and practices recklessly. Yes, we drink Jesus' blood because He told us to, it requires supernatural faith that you resist. Mock all you like, but when it comes to the Eucharist, it's gloves off. We've survived from far worse anti-Catholics than you and will continue to survive until the end of human history. Legions of ******** like you won't make a dent.

Let's say that the books you have in the Old Testament of your Bible were all actually scripture as you believe. Why is it that you don't interpret New Testament scripture correctly?
By what authority do you interpret the Bible correctly? Are your interpretations consistent or parallel with anybody else or are you your own pope in church of one?
Regardless of which books you believe are part of the OT, you still interpret much of the NT falsely. What is your excuse for that? No wonder you want to focus on what books should be in the OT so much. It distracts from the fact that you butcher the NT scriptures with your false interpretations.
That's just your opinion.
 

BreadOfLife

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Are you being purposely dense? He is saying those footnotes and cross references themselves are not scripture. Very simple. Is this too hard for you to understand, Einstein, Junior?
That's funny - because I never said they were.
That makes his post even MORE stupid . . .
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I don't charge for Apologetics.
Consider this a FREE lesson . . .
I wouldn't charge for that, either, if I was as bad at it as you are. But, your comedy, though. You sure you don't want any compensation for the laughs you have provided me? It's been a lot of them so far.

REALLY??
That's the BEST you can do??

I must have really hurt your feelings . . .
No, I can do better when I feel like it. But, are you claiming to not be an overly dramatic drama queen? You think arguing over who is or is not a Protestant is really worth a ton of your time and effort? As if what label you put on someone is the most important thing in the world?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Now you're getting violent.
LOL. I see that you like to be overly dramatic as well. Is this typical of Catholics? Are you encourage to be that way at your church?

Kissing someone's feet is a sign of respect not found in America, the 'sole rule of all cultures'. You mock our beliefs and practices recklessly.
LOL. I will never stop mocking your ridiculous beliefs. I don't mock every belief I disagree with. Some have at last some semblance of reasonableness to them. But, not some of your Catholic beliefs. They are just utterly ridiculous and deserve to be mocked and not taken seriously.

Yes, we drink Jesus' blood because He told us to, it requires supernatural faith that you resist.
LOL. It seems that you would not recognize symbolism if it smacked you across the face.

Mock all you like,
I will. And I don't need your permission to do so.

but when it comes to the Eucharist, it's gloves off.
Is that a threat? Who is the one being violent here?

We've survived from far worse anti-Catholics than you and will continue to survive until the end of human history. Legions of ******** like you won't make a dent.
What does that even mean? You need to repent of your false beliefs or you will NOT survive that in the end. That is what matters. If you continue to think that you can earn your own salvation, as Catholic doctrine teaches, then you will continue to be in spiritual darkness.

By what authority do you interpret the Bible correctly?
The Holy Spirit. And I couldn't care less if you agree or not. This is my honest answer to your question.

Are your interpretations consistent or parallel with anybody else or are you your own pope in church of one?
Of course they are. For example, I'm an Amillennialist. There are many thousands of us, at least. And, while I'm not a Calvinist I do believe that we are saved by faith and not by works. Millions of non-Calvinists agree with me on that.

That's just your opinion.
Of course. We're all sharing our opinions here. It just so happens that my opinions are right and yours are wrong.

That was a joke, by the way. I obviously do believe that, but that is my opinion.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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That's funny - because I never said they were.
That makes his post even MORE stupid . . .
Try to follow along, Einstein Junior. This was your response:

EinsteinJunior said:
So - YOU Bible doesn't t have footnotes and cross-references??Too bad.
Do you really think it was his point to say that his Bible didn't have footnotes and cross references? That is not at all what he was saying. He was saying footnotes and cross references themselves are not scripture. And this is how you respond? You missed his point just as badly as you miss the meaning of many scripture passages.
 
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Illuminator

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LOL. I see that you like to be overly dramatic as well. Is this typical of Catholics? Are you encourage to be that way at your church?


LOL. I will never stop mocking your ridiculous beliefs. I don't mock every belief I disagree with. Some have at last some semblance of reasonableness to them. But, not some of your Catholic beliefs. They are just utterly ridiculous and deserve to be mocked and not taken seriously.


LOL. It seems that you would not recognize symbolism if it smacked you across the face.


I will. And I don't need your permission to do so.


Is that a threat? Who is the one being violent here?


What does that even mean? You need to repent of your false beliefs or you will NOT survive that in the end. That is what matters. If you continue to think that you can earn your own salvation, as Catholic doctrine teaches, then you will continue to be in spiritual darkness.
Well, if I believed half the lies you do about the Catholic faith, I would reject it too.
The Holy Spirit. And I couldn't care less if you agree or not. This is my honest answer to your question.
TEXT without CONTEXT is a PRETEXT.
The BIBLE without the CHURCH is an EXCUSE.
Of course they are. For example, I'm an Amillennialist. There are many thousands of us, at least. And, while I'm not a Calvinist I do believe that we are saved by faith and not by works. Millions of non-Calvinists agree with me on that.
Catholics are amillennialists too. "Good works" is not the same as "works of the law". Millions erroneously use the terms interchangeably. They are different words with different meanings.
Of course. We're all sharing our opinions here. It just so happens that my opinions are right and yours are wrong.

That was a joke, by the way. I obviously do believe that, but that is my opinion.
Then you must believe your private interpretations are infallible.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Well, if I believed half the lies you do about the Catholic faith, I would reject it too.
Tell me even one lie that I believe about the Catholic faith.

TEXT without CONTEXT is a PRETEXT.
No kidding. Anything else obvious you want to share that we all know?

The BIBLE without the CHURCH is an EXCUSE.
What does that even mean?

Catholics are amillennialists too.
That's making me have to rethink my beliefs on that then.

I'm kidding. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

"Good works" is not the same as "works of the law". Millions erroneously use the terms interchangeably. They are different words with different meanings.
Are you talking to those people or to me? Could you try talking to me? I don't believe good works and works of the law are the same. Scripture teaches both that we are not saved by good works (Ephesians 2:8-10) and we are not saved by doing works of the law. Good works are things we do AFTER becoming saved (Ephesians 2:10) as we are led by the Holy Spirit who indwells us when we become saved AFTER repenting and putting our faith and trust in Christ as our Lord and Savior. We don't do good works in order to become saved or else we could boast about saving ourselves. Do you understand this? I don't believe Catholic doctrine teaches this.

Then you must believe your private interpretations are infallible.
My "private interpretations" that are shared by MANY other people? You must have a strange definition of private interpretations.
 

Illuminator

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LOL. I see that you like to be overly dramatic as well. Is this typical of Catholics? Are you encourage to be that way at your church?
No, I'm overly dramatic just in forums when I am addressing self-righteous arrogant anti-Catholic bigots that end up in my ignore bin. They, like you, refuse to bend from false caricatures ignoring mountains of evidence to the contrary.
LOL. I will never stop mocking your ridiculous beliefs. I don't mock every belief I disagree with. Some have at last some semblance of reasonableness to them. But, not some of your Catholic beliefs. They are just utterly ridiculous and deserve to be mocked and not taken seriously.
We think faith and reason are compatible. In fact, there is a whole encyclical on Faith and Reason.
What you think are ridiculous beliefs are ridiculous to you because you haven't a clue what they are or where they came from. So you post photos.
LOL. It seems that you would not recognize symbolism if it smacked you across the face.
Symbols don't give eternal life.
I will. And I don't need your permission to do so.
Is that a threat? Who is the one being violent here?

What does that even mean? You need to repent of your false beliefs or you will NOT survive that in the end.
I have no idea what false beliefs you are talking about. There are no false beliefs in Catholicism. Just the ones dreamed up by arrogant anti-Catholics who don't have a clue what they are talking about and are too proud to be corrected.
That is what matters. If you continue to think that you can earn your own salvation, as Catholic doctrine teaches, then you will continue to be in spiritual darkness.
That's exactly what I am talking about. I've seen this "earn your own salvation" myth a thousand times. It's taught by liars who know better but lie about it anyway. here's a sample.
The Holy Spirit. And I couldn't care less if you agree or not. This is my honest answer to your question.
Yup, and every heretic in the patristic period claimed the same thing.
Of course they are. For example, I'm an Amillennialist. There are many thousands of us, at least. And, while I'm not a Calvinist I do believe that we are saved by faith and not by works. Millions of non-Calvinists agree with me on that.
Catholics are amillennialists too. Maybe we can find some common ground if you would stop trolling with stupid insults with every post.
 
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