22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine
- Thread starter WPM
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
What was this discussion in Acts 1 about?
Why didn't Christ answer the question His disciples asked Him? If Christ was speaking of the nation of Israel being restored again to the Kingdom it had once been, why does Christ elsewhere tell them "My Kingdom is NOT of this world" and that "the Kingdom of God is within you"? Perhaps that's why Christ did not tell them when?
John 18:36 (KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Luke 17:21 (KJV) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Perhaps you could be helped if you start again your Bible studies without the preconception of Zionism???
What does Christ say about His Kingdom? Where and within whom shall His Kingdom belong?
Question...
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Answer...
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Read.
Try to understand God's Word for once in your life by removing your bent toward Zionism! Since you believe God says He will gather ALL without exception of the children of ethnic Israel and they shall be one Kingdom in their own land, what about all those scattered among the nations who lived and died before Christ? Will God abandon those ethnic Israelites to darkness and death? If all Israel means ALL without exception, you cannot say God will save only some of them!
The question and answer is about the restoration of the kingdom to Israel.
You know, every verse and passage in the OT prophets that we have been discussing.
Jesus told them it is not for them to know when this will occur.
You know exactly what is going on here.
Admit it...
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Are you guys jealous of this?...
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord....
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord....
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
Then you now admit since we Gentiles too are of the same good tree, "all Israel saved" is the "Israel of God", a people from every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue! Yes, we are saved according to the promise of God by grace through faith like that of the fathers. IOW we, Gentiles, who are of faith like that of the faithful fathers of old shall be saved through the same SEED (Christ).
None shall be saved without faith! It doesn't matter whether we be Jew or Gentile without faith none shall be saved. But if we have faith in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile we are "Israel of God" saved according to grace through faith. It is in this manner that all the promises of God to the fathers of old are always YES, and AMEN!
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one....
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
Do you? I must ask because you continue to say that ALL without exception from the nation of Israel shall in the future be saved? Yet the Bible is very clear about the message we should be proclaiming to ALL people. That is that without faith in Christ, being ethnic Israel will not save you!
Of course we are grafted into the same tree(God) that future saved national Israel will be at the return of Christ at this event....
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
Here is what it says....
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
Talk is cheap.
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord....
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
Is this Amils?
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
Is this Amils?
No way God can do this to them?....
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Impossible?
God can't hang here?
Yes, I know through additional passages what Christ is telling them here. You apparently do not! Zionists believe that Christ will come again and restore the Kingdom back to ethnic Israel and save all of them (You). Which is why I gave you additional verses trying to help you understand the error in this thinking. This is the age of salvation. When Christ returns again, there will not be additional time given ethnic Israel to inherit a Kingdom on this earth, and through obedience be saved. Ethnic Israel MUST be saved during this age of Gospel grace, before Christ comes the second time, just as Gentiles too MUST be saved. Then all the faithful saints together will inherit God's promise of the new earth for all eternity.
What is the day coming foretold here? Has not the day of the Lord promised come when Christ came to the earth a man?
The prophesy of old is fulfilled for those of faith, those who believe God. Mankind receives the promise of God according to grace through faith. The Old Covenant saints looked for fulfillment that would come when the promised Messiah came, and since Christ has come we look for fulfillment of the promise for Him to come again when the seventh angel begins to sound that time given this earth to build the hevenly eternal spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth. All who are of like minded faith as that of father Abraham have spiritually entered into the Kingdom of God through His Spirit in them.
John 14:17 (KJV) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:26 (KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Hebrews 11:9-10 (KJV) By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Hebrews 11:13-16 (KJV) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Hebrews 12:22 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
The promise regarding the physical land of promise, Caanan, was fulfilled, and in the same manner the promise regarding and eternal home in heaven is being fulfilled as the Gospel is proclaimed and men/women of faith are saved. Those who belong (all nations) to the eternal spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven, shall inherit the whole earth made new, where there is no more sin or death.
Because Christ has come and after His resurrection ascended to heaven where He inherited a Kingdom that shall never end all the promises made through Him have been fulfilled and will be complete when He comes the second time.
- Status
Similar threads
