22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

Yes you bend and twist scripture to suit your needs

"Sea" represents multitudes of people, as you continue to falsely claim a literal man comes from the ocean/sea "Childish"

... and the beast represents the various wicked kingdom that came against the people of God in history. Who is this literal 7-headed human with 10 horns that you speak about?

 

[Truth7t7]

... and the beast represents the various wicked kingdom that came against the people of God in history. Who is this literal 7-headed human with 10 horns that you speak about?

Once Again And Again

You have been shown several times (The Scarlet Beast) is a (Symbolic Metaphor)

This (Metaphor) is explained and interpreted in Revelation 17:7-13 below, "Your question has been answered" several times

Jesus Is The Lord

1.) The 7 heads are 7 literal mountains upon this earth

2.) The 10 horns are 10 future literal kings

3.) The Woman sitting on this beast is the great city Jerusalem where Jesus was crucified Revelation 11

4.) (The Beast) is a future literal human "king/ruler" upon this earth the 8th "king", a human man

Revelation 17:7-13KJV
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

 

[St. Joseph]

Ok, so you are unable to answer my questions with Scripture. Your comments are simply not true! You are just repeating what you have been taught. Sad! Give me one reference to the word "Church" [Gr. ekklesia] in the whole 4th chapter?



All the elect were brought out in total and all the wicked were destroyed in total who were left behind. That is the way it is going to be at the second coming.

Jesus told write the things that were, that are and what is to cone. Chapter1 he wrote of things that were. Chapters 2 and 3 he wrote about the church,the things that are. Chapter 5 and on,things that will be,tribulation and end of things.

 

[WPM]

Jesus told write the things that were, that are and what is to cone. Chapter1 he wrote of things that were. Chapters 2 and 3 he wrote about the church,the things that are. Chapter 5 and on,things that will be,tribulation and end of things.

Hey, stop telling us the things you have been wrongly taught, we know them, many of us were once deceived by this teaching, answer the questions relating to what you claimed. You know you cannot, because it is extra-biblical. It must be taught to you. It is not in God's Book.

 

[WPM]

Once Again And Again

You have been shown several times (The Scarlet Beast) is a (Symbolic Metaphor)

This (Metaphor) is explained and interpreted in the chapter following, "Your question has been answered" several times

Jesus Is The Lord

1.) The 7 heads are 7 literal mountains upon this earth

2.) The 10 horns are 10 future literal kings

3.) The Woman sitting on this beast is the great city Jerusalem where Jesus was crucified

4.) (The Beast) is a future literal human "king/ruler" upon this earth the 8th "king", a human man

Revelation 17:7-13KJV
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

LOL. You have no answer to these simple exposures. So how can a literal man be 7 mountains and 10 kings at the one time? This is descending into the ridiculous.

 

[St. Joseph]

"The Church" seen in Luke 21 below, those who are persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ, they will be eyewitnesses of the future great tribulation and second coming of Jesus in the heavens, your claim of a pre-tribulation rapture would be false

Tribulation verses 26-26 below, the Second Coming verses 27-28

Luke 21:17 & 25-28KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Christ is speaking of tribulation sure enough. But church will be gone.

 

[St. Joseph]

Hey, stop telling us the things you have been wrongly taught, we know them, many of us were once deceived by this teaching, answer the questions relating to what you claimed. You know you cannot, because it is extra-biblical. It must be taught to you. It is not in God's Book.

Prove me wrong. Iit matters nothing to me what you believe or dont believe. You cant prove im wrong. Or that you're right. But i know what i believe.

 

[Truth7t7]

LOL. You have no answer to to these simple exposures. So how can a literal man be 7 mountains and 10 kings at the one time? This is descending into the ridiculous.

Your on the childish troll now, bending and twisting to suit your needs in chaotic confusion

You have been shown several times the 7 mountains represent the Mounts in Jerusalem, who is the "Whore"

The eighth king represents "The Beast"

The ten kings are separate from "The Beast" who I believe will be the quickly recognized as 10 kings representing the ten lost tribes of Israel

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

(Revelation) 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

(Revelation) 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

(Revelation) 18:19 AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

 

[St. Joseph]

Your on the childish troll now, bending and twisting to suit your needs in chaotic confusion

You have been shown several times the 7 mountains represent the Mounts in Jerusalem, who is the "Whore"

The eighth king represents "The Beast"

The ten kings are separate from "The Beast" who I believe will be the quickly recognized as 10 kings representing the ten lost tribes of Israel

Antichrist will come out of Roman Empire. Those 7 are not in Jerusalem. And the 10 tribes play no role.

 

[WPM]

Prove me wrong. Iit matters nothing to me what you believe or dont believe. You cant prove im wrong. Or that you're right. But i know what i believe.

Lol. You don't get it do you? The burden of proof is with you. The first principle of evidence is: "he who alleges must prove." The reality is: you cannot give us Scripture to support your error. It doesn't exist.

 

[St. Joseph]

Lol. You don't get it do you? The burden of proof is with you. The first principle of evidence is: "he who alleges must prove." The reality is: you cannot give us Scripture to support your error. It doesn't exist.

You are my friend. I have to prove nothing. The scriptures dont need my defending. I laid it out step by step point by point to where a child can understand. You cant understand so want to argue. Play elsewhere i wont argue scripture.

 

[WPM]

You are my friend. I have to prove nothing. The scriptures dont need my defending. I laid it out step by step point by point to where a child can understand. You cant understand so want to argue. Play elsewhere i wont argue scripture.

I am not interested in your private opinions. I want to know what the Book says.

You cannot even show us a rapture in Revelation 4:1.
You cannot show us the Church in Revelation 4:1.
You cannot explain to us how 24 Elders represent the whole Church. After all, there are millions of believers.
You cannot show us anywhere in Scripture where the Church is represented with this symbol of 24 Elders.

You make it up as you go and expect us to go along with it. That is not the way it works here. You have to prove what you claim or we will reject your teaching as man-made error.

 

[St. Joseph]

I am not interested in your private opinions. I want to know what the Book says.

You cannot even show us a rapture in Revelation 4:1.
You cannot show us the Church in Revelation 4:1.
You cannot explain to us how 24 Elders represent the whole Church. After all, there are millions of believers.
You cannot show us anywhere in Scripture where the Church is represented with this symbol of 24 Elders.

You make it up as you go and expect us to go along with it. That is not the way it works here. You have to prove what you claim or we will reject your teaching as man-made error.

Dont matter to me what you reject or believe. I lay it out thats all that concerns me.

 

[Keraz]

You have to prove what you claim or we will reject your teaching as man-made error.

I see no proof of your theory that we are in the Millennium now. Biblically, or in the reality of todays situation.

You are quick to demand Biblical proofs of peoples beliefs, while failing to prove your own, Your constant assertion that Revelation 20 is a 'highly metaphorical chapter', just doesn't wash, as the literal thousand years that King Jesus will reign on earth has been shown to you as the final thousand years of Gods Plan for mankind and we are now close to the 6000 year mark.

I have replied now, because I view what you say to new posters here, as brow-beating. As unpleasant and critical denigration, as if only you have the right beliefs and your attempts to force those beliefs onto everyone else, comes across as rude and demanding.

 

[St. Joseph]

I see no proof of your theory that we are in the Millennium now. Biblically, or in the reality of todays situation.

You are quick to demand Biblical proofs of peoples beliefs, while failing to prove your own, Your constant assertion that Revelation 20 is a 'highly metaphorical chapter', just doesn't wash, as the literal thousand years that King Jesus will reign on earth has been shown to you as the final thousand years of Gods Plan for mankind and we are now close to the 6000 year mark.

I have replied now, because I view what you say to new posters here, as brow-beating. As unpleasant and critical denigration, as if only you have the right beliefs and your attempts to force those beliefs onto everyone else, comes across as rude and demanding.

I know you maen this to help others and not me alone. However i need no defending. I can see a troll and an isecure person a mile off. He is jus t showing his immaturity and ignorance of scripture.

 

[WPM]

Dont matter to me what you reject or believe. I lay it out thats all that concerns me.

You cannot come on a board like this and state your opinion and not produce Scripture to support it. That is will be quickly (and rightly) challenged and exposed. Unfortunately, that is Pretrib in a nutshell. It is not supported by the Book. It is a man-made theory. Your failure to biblically address/support what you have been taught reinforces what we all know - your doctrine is extra-biblical.

 

[WPM]

I see no proof of your theory that we are in the Millennium now. Biblically, or in the reality of todays situation.

You are quick to demand Biblical proofs of peoples beliefs, while failing to prove your own, Your constant assertion that Revelation 20 is a 'highly metaphorical chapter', just doesn't wash, as the literal thousand years that King Jesus will reign on earth has been shown to you as the final thousand years of Gods Plan for mankind and we are now close to the 6000 year mark.

I have replied now, because I view what you say to new posters here, as brow-beating. As unpleasant and critical denigration, as if only you have the right beliefs and your attempts to force those beliefs onto everyone else, comes across as rude and demanding.

Not true. If people make wild unsubstantiated theological claims then they need to support it with hard Scripture. Premils cannot seem do that. They think their opinion is enough. Well, no. That will never cut it.

 

[WPM]

I know you maen this to help others and not me alone. However i need no defending. I can see a troll and an isecure person a mile off. He is jus t showing his immaturity and ignorance of scripture.

How about answering simple questions. Is that too much to ask of you?

 

[Truth7t7]

It is not supported by the Book. It is a man-made theory.

Same applies to your claims of a (Spiritual Resurrection) and that (The Beast) won't be a future human man

 

[WPM]

I see no proof of your theory that we are in the Millennium now. Biblically, or in the reality of todays situation.

You are quick to demand Biblical proofs of peoples beliefs, while failing to prove your own, Your constant assertion that Revelation 20 is a 'highly metaphorical chapter', just doesn't wash, as the literal thousand years that King Jesus will reign on earth has been shown to you as the final thousand years of Gods Plan for mankind and we are now close to the 6000 year mark.

Premils in history have a habit of extending time every time we break through their new 6000 year concept. If we take the latest blueprint we are 23 years into the millennium. Needless to say, they will now change that to suit their theology. That is not the way truth works!