22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

It's not going to change, your claims of a "Spiritual Resurrection" are false

Your claim in post #6505 seen below, that believers partake in a (Spiritual Resurrection) salvation?

Your teaching and doctrine isnt found in scripture, it's that simple

The word "Resurrection" relates directly to the literal bodily resurrection seen throughout scripture

You use this private interpretation to lay a false foundation for the words (First Resurrection) seen in Revelation 20:6 as being fulfilled at a believers "Salvation" wrong

Quote Post #6505 WPM:

"Those in Him overcome the second death through salvation (spiritual resurrection), not through physical resurrection."

Your infantile behavior on this board does not advance your cause. Your theology has been blown out of the water on each thread here lately and you have nothing else to do but cut-and-paste and avoid!

How is someone raised from spiritual death to spiritual life?

 

[Truther]

The term "a thousand" is used in most languages in a general figurative sense to represent a large number or a large indefinite period. Certain common numbers are frequently used in Scripture as valuable symbols to represent particular divine truths or ideas; a thousand and ten thousand are two such numbers. They are employed as familiar figures to impress deep spiritual principles in a distinctly comprehendible and identifiable way. It is not necessarily the exact numerical size of the figure outlined that is important but the spiritual idea that it represents. In fact, English dictionaries recognize the indefinite nature of a thousand defining it variously as a very large number or a great number or amount. This use is very common in our daily language.

One and a thousand are brought together in a metaphorical sense in Psalm 84:9-10 to represent a similar illustrative thought as that of Deuteronomy 32:30. Using a comparable idea, although applying it to a specific measure of time, we learn, “Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.”

Comparing ‘one’ to ‘a thousand’ is common in Scripture; however, it is not simply a concept that is narrowly restricted to the subject of time, or exact time at that. This figurative statement in essence asserts that a day in the Lord’s presence is more blessed than untold ordinary ones outside of such. It in no way indicates that one (twenty-four hour) day in God’s presence exactly represents one thousand days elsewhere, such a limit would be an unfair restriction upon the meaning intended. Such a literal interpretation is at clear variance with the undoubted general usage of the phrase in Scripture and the specific import of the reading under analysis.

The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 to denote the greatness of God’s providence, saying, “For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.”

Does Christ only own the cattle on one thousand hills or does he own them all? Of course there is no way that this passage suggests that Christ only owns the cattle on one thousand hills. Rather, He owns every beast on every hill, thus revealing His omnipotence. The statement reference the “thousand hills” is preceded y the introductory comment: “For every beast of the forest is mine.” This is simply presented in such a way as to express the unfathomable authority and power of the living God. It beautifully correlates with the truth expressed in 1 Corinthians 10:28, which states, “the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.”

The term “a thousand” is thus used to in some way express the nature and awesome power of Almighty God. The phrase is used to portray the Sovereignty of God and His supreme kingship over all creation. We must clearly acknowledge that the figure ‘a thousand’ is consistently and symbolically employed, throughout the Word of God, to denote an unfathomable amount or a vast period.

Even the figurative every-day statement ‘one in a thousand’ has emanated from the fountainhead of Scripture. It is found in Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 where Solomon laments, “one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found. Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.”

Solomon laments over the fact that he barely found any upright man in his travels. They were the exception rather than the rule. The thought here intended is that the man under consideration is of a particular choice character, being, as it where, the pick-of-the-bunch. The usage of the numbers one and a thousand is thus employed to represent a particular truth rather than specifically describing an accurate numerical equation.

In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, “If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness.” The same two common numbers are used here in the form of a contrast to simply portray the picture of a special vessel. Again, it is not the numbers that are important but the idea they represent.

As we have already discovered in our studies, the same kind of function is repeatedly afforded to the use of the term ‘ten thousand’ as is ‘a thousand’ in Scripture. It is often used in the same context and in the same way as a symbol to represent an immense figure. Thus, the Song of Solomon 5:10 declares, “My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.”

Ten thousand is here used to, in some way, portray the deep-rooted emotions that a man feels towards his sweetheart. The usage of the number ‘ten thousand’ thus indicates the idea of the deep affection of the man rather than specifically describing an exact numerical computation.

The same idea is presented in 2 Samuel 18:2-3 where David is seen preparing for battle. He tells the people, “I will surely go forth with you myself also.” To which the people responded, “Thou shalt not go forth: for if we flee away, they will not care for us; neither if half of us die, will they care for us: but now thou art worth ten thousand of us: therefore now it is better that thou succour us out of the city.”

Jesus employs the number ten thousand as a general figure in Luke 14:31 to relate the necessity of wisdom, asking, “what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with TWENTY THOUSAND?”

The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, “I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.”

This passage is contrasting the infinite knowledge of God to the finite knowledge of God. This language is stating the enormous depth of God's understanding rather than limiting God to the capacity to only answer a thousand questions.

The same idea is intended in Isaiah 60:21-22, where the prophet instructs, in relation to the New Earth, “Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.”

This passage is expressed in such a manner to in some way describe the great standing, wealth and supernatural power that is found in them that are God’s. God magnifies them in such a manner that the world cannot remotely comprehend. The expressions thus indicate magnitude:

A little one = a thousand
A small one = a strong nation

6 times, a thousand or the thousand years is mentioned in 6 verses, and you think it means ten thousand or maybe ten days or whatever, etc?

I thought the book was off limits to changing its meanings per this....


...
...... If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


I guess "Metaphors of Revelation" is your new title for the book?

 

[WPM]

6 times, a thousand or the thousand years is mentioned in 6 verses, and you think it means ten thousand or maybe ten days or whatever, etc?

I thought the book was off limits to changing its meanings per this....


...
...... If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


I guess "Metaphors of Revelation" is your new title for the book?

If you read what I wrote you would realize what Scripture is saying and what I was saying. That seems to be something you struggle with.

Do you accept that the figure “a thousand” (including a thousand years) and ten thousand are repeatedly used in Scripture to denote a vast indeterminate amount or period of time?

Moses employs `a thousand' in Deuteronomy 7:9 saying, "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

1 Chronicles 16:13-17 also states, "O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A thousand and ten thousand are used together in Psalm 91, saying, "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee" (vv 5-7).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A similar contrast between these two numbers or ideas is seen in Deuteronomy 32:30, where a rhetorical question is asked, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?"

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Joshua affirms, on the same vein, in chapter 23, "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you" (v 10).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Isaiah the prophet similarly declares in Isaiah 30:17, "one thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one."

This incidentally is the only passage in Scripture that makes mention of the actual number "one thousand," albeit, the term is used to impress a spiritual truth.

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Psalm 84:9-10 says, "Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 saying, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 succinctly says, "one man among a thousand have I found."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, "If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, "I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

 

[Truther]

If you read what I wrote you would realize what Scripture is saying and what I was saying. That seems to be something you struggle with.

Do you accept that the figure “a thousand” (including a thousand years) and ten thousand are repeatedly used in Scripture to denote a vast indeterminate amount or period of time?

Moses employs `a thousand' in Deuteronomy 7:9 saying, "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

1 Chronicles 16:13-17 also states, "O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A thousand and ten thousand are used together in Psalm 91, saying, "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee" (vv 5-7).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A similar contrast between these two numbers or ideas is seen in Deuteronomy 32:30, where a rhetorical question is asked, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?"

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Joshua affirms, on the same vein, in chapter 23, "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you" (v 10).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Isaiah the prophet similarly declares in Isaiah 30:17, "one thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one."

This incidentally is the only passage in Scripture that makes mention of the actual number "one thousand," albeit, the term is used to impress a spiritual truth.

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Psalm 84:9-10 says, "Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 saying, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 succinctly says, "one man among a thousand have I found."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, "If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, "I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Hey, howbout this?...


and bound him a MILLION years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the HUNDRED years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a GOOD 2000 YEARS OR SO.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the 20 years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a DECADE of years.

7 And when the UNKNOWN AMOUNT OF years are expired,...

 

[WPM]

Hey, howbout this?...


and bound him a MILLION years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the HUNDRED years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a GOOD 2000 YEARS OR SO.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the 20 years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a DECADE of years.

7 And when the UNKNOWN AMOUNT OF years are expired,...

More avoidance. You have to.

BTW, do you believe that the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is sixty minutes?

 

[Truth7t7]

Your infantile behavior on this board does not advance your cause. Your theology has been blown out of the water on each thread here lately and you have nothing else to do but cut-and-paste and avoid!

How is someone raised from spiritual death to spiritual life?

Believers are "Translated" into the kingdom of God, they are "Quickened" by God the Holy Spirit, they don't participate in a "Spiritual Resurrection" as you falsely claim

"Translated"

Colossians 1:13-14KJV
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

"Quickened"

Ephesians 2:1KJV
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Your claim in post #6505 seen below, that believers partake in a (Spiritual Resurrection) salvation?

Your teaching and doctrine isnt found in scripture, it's that simple

The word "Resurrection" relates directly to the literal bodily resurrection seen throughout scripture

You use this private interpretation to lay a false foundation for the words (First Resurrection) seen in Revelation 20:6 as being fulfilled at a believers "Salvation" wrong

Quote Post #6505 WPM:

"Those in Him overcome the second death through salvation (spiritual resurrection), not through physical resurrection."

 

[WPM]

Believers are "Translated" into the kingdom of God, they are "Quickened" by God the Holy Spirit, they don't participate in a "Spiritual Resurrection" as you falsely claim

"Translated"

Colossians 1:13-14KJV
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

"Quickened"

Ephesians 2:1KJV
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Your claim in post #6505 seen below, that believers partake in a (Spiritual Resurrection) salvation?

Your teaching and doctrine isnt found in scripture, it's that simple

The word "Resurrection" relates directly to the literal bodily resurrection seen throughout scripture

You use this private interpretation to lay a false foundation for the words (First Resurrection) seen in Revelation 20:6 as being fulfilled at a believers "Salvation" wrong

Quote Post #6505 WPM:

"Those in Him overcome the second death through salvation (spiritual resurrection), not through physical resurrection."

Exactly, we are raised from the dead by His quickening voice. Hello! We are looking at a spiritual resurrection. You know it. That is why you are so sheepish and evasive in your responses.

Two resurrections result for the believer from Christ’s one resurrection. Man needs both spiritually redeemed and physically redeemed. When one gets saved they are spiritually redeemed. But they are not physically redeemed until resurrection day. His “first resurrection” secured both resurrections for those who will put their faith in Christ.

Romans 6:3-6 says, “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up [Gr. egeiro] from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection [Gr. anastasis]: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

There are two Greek words used in Romans 6:3-10 that are used to describe the resurrection of Christ, and that are significantly in turn purposely equated to the believer and the new birth experience; they are egeiro (Strong’s 1453) and anastasis (Strong’s 386). Such a correlation between these two diverse types of resurrection (physical and spiritual) is only secured through Christ’s sinless life, atoning death and glorious resurrection, enabling the believer to walk in resurrection power and “newness of life.” The believer here is therefore supernaturally transferred from a condition of death into one of life. This undoubtedly relates (1) to a spiritual state, and, (2), to the here in now. It cannot relate to the physical resurrection which is still future and which occurs at the second coming of Christ.

The first word egeiro (Strong’s 1453) is used many times throughout the New Testament to describe the Lord’s physical resurrection. These references are found in Matthew 14:2, 16:21, 17:9, 23, 20:19, 26:32, 27:63, 64, 28:6, 7, Mark 14:28, 16:6, 14, Luke 1:69, 9:22, 24:6, 34, John 2:19, 20, 22, 21:14, Acts 3:15, 4:10, 5:30, 10:40, 13:30, 37, Romans 4:24, 25, 6:4, 9, 7:4, 8:11, 34, 10:9, 1 Corinthians 6:14, 15:4, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 2 Corinthians 4:14, 5:15, Galatians 1:1, Ephesians 1:20, Colossians 2:12, 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and 1 Peter 1:21.

Similarly, the other Greek word anastasis (Strong’s 386), which is identified several times in Scripture with the new birth spiritual resurrection is also used several times to describe the Lord’s physical resurrection. It is derived from the root word anistemi (Strong’s 450). These are outlined in Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:34, 16:9, Luke 18:33, 24:7, 26, John 20:9, Acts 2:24, 31, 32, 3:26, 4:2, 33, 10:41, 13:33, 34, 17:3, 18, 26:23, Romans 15:12, Philippians 3:10 1 Thessalonians 4:14, 1 Peter 1:3, 3:21.

The same two Greek words that are repeatedly employed to describe Christ’s physical resurrection from the dead are also used in Ephesians 5:14 to describe the new birth experience of the believer. The sinner being commanded: “Awake [Gr. egeiro] thou that sleepest, and arise [Gr. anastasis] from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light” (Ephesians 5:14).

The resurrection portrayed here is again not a physical resurrection, but, a spiritual resurrection in which the recipient (the sinner) receives the joy of salvation. Through this spiritual resurrection, the believer receives the “light” of God and is therefore spared the awful sentence of eternal wrath. The verb “arise” in this text specifically relates to salvation and is a metaphor describing the spiritual resurrection that Christians undergo when they are lifted from the grave of sin. It also demonstrates the blessing that follows this resurrection. The true child of God receives the blessed light of God’s dear Son the Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 2:34 also records, “Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again [Gr. anastasis or resurrecting] of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against.”

Matthew Henry explains in relation to this passage, “He (Jesus) is set for the rising again of many in Israel, that is, for the conversion of many to God that are dead and buried in sin, and for the consolation of many in God that are sunk and lost in sorrow and despair. Those whom he is set for the fall of may be the same with those whom he is set for the rising again of. He is set eis ptosin kai anastasin - for their fall, in order to their rising again; to humble and abase them, and bring them off from all confidence in themselves, that they may be exalted by relying on Christ; he wounds and then heals, Paul falls, and rises again”

The believer is raised from the grave of his sin and spiritual death at conversion, which of necessity must be a spiritual resurrection. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 1:8-10, “For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life: But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth [Gr. egeiro] the dead: Who delivered us (past tense) from so great a death, and doth deliver (present tense): in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us (future tense).”

This whole passage is concentrated upon the great eternal provision of spiritual deliverance. The word “raiseth” in this reading is a present active verb, therefore it is talking about a resurrection that is happening now, rather than the future physical resurrection. This is obviously speaking of spiritual resurrection, because it alone has been ongoing since Christ’s first (physical) resurrection. This will, of course, culminate with the general physical resurrection at His return.

The same word repeatedly applied to Christ’s physical resurrection in the New Testament – egeiro – is here again used spiritually to describe the spiritual resurrection of the believer from the reality of spiritual death. It shows a present realisation and victorious triumph over that state in this testimony of Paul. This reading does not at all indicate that the believer will not experience natural death, no, but rather, that he wouldn’t experience spiritual death. It positively outlines that through the spiritual (or first) resurrection the believer is rescued from entering into the awful realisation of the second death (eternal punishment).

 

[Truther]

More avoidance. You have to.

BTW, do you believe that the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is sixty minutes?

One hour has a specific meaning.

Now, what is the SPECIFIC meaning of 1000 years per Rev 20?

It must be specific, not willy nilly random as you posted.

 

[WPM]

Believers are "Translated" into the kingdom of God, they are "Quickened" by God the Holy Spirit, they don't participate in a "Spiritual Resurrection" as you falsely claim

"Translated"

Colossians 1:13-14KJV
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

"Quickened"

Ephesians 2:1KJV
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Your claim in post #6505 seen below, that believers partake in a (Spiritual Resurrection) salvation?

Your teaching and doctrine isnt found in scripture, it's that simple

The word "Resurrection" relates directly to the literal bodily resurrection seen throughout scripture

You use this private interpretation to lay a false foundation for the words (First Resurrection) seen in Revelation 20:6 as being fulfilled at a believers "Salvation" wrong

Quote Post #6505 WPM:

"Those in Him overcome the second death through salvation (spiritual resurrection), not through physical resurrection."

Colossians 2:10-14 says, “ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ‘ye are risen with him’ [Gr. sunegeiro] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised [Gr. egeiro] him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened [Gr. suzoopoieo] together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

This explicit passage describes the act of salvation as a resurrection feat. Moreover, the raising of the forgiven child of God in resurrection power in salvation is in turn carefully identified with, and connected to, Christ’s glorious resurrection. It confirms that our hearts “are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ” in salvation, and likens this supernatural work to a death, burial and resurrection. This reading shows how the child of God is “buried with him,” “quickened together with him,” and finally “risen with him.”

The wording relating to this spiritual resurrection – “ye are risen with him” – is translated from the Greek word sunegeiro (Strong’s 4891), which is derived from the coupling of two other Greek words sun (Strong’s 4862) – denoting union and togetherness, and egeiro (Strong’s 1453), which means to awaken or resurrect from the dead. This word egeiro is constantly used in the New Testament in reference to Christ’s physical resurrection.

Also, the word rendered “quickened” in the above passage is translated from the Greek word suzoopoieo (Strong’s 4806), which is derived from combining the words sun (Strong’s 4862) with zoopoíeo (Strong’s 2227), meaning to make alive, give life and revitalize. Hence, we can see the deep meaning of this word in the aforementioned passage and the essential work that is perfected in the penitent sinner in regeneration.

Many new birth passages in Scripture are surrounded in resurrection terminology. Notwithstanding, they are not in any way referring to a physical resurrection, although, often, using the same type of language that accompanies literal ones. These references repeatedly describe spiritually dead men being spiritually made alive by being first spiritually quickened and then spiritually resurrected from the grave of their sin. This reading plainly outlines how the penitent sinner is raised with the exact same supernatural power that raised Christ at His resurrection, saying, “ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

Colossians 3:1-4 goes on to add, “If ‘ye then be risen with’ [Gr. sunegeiro] Christ (speaking in the present tense about those who have experienced spiritual resurrection in Christ), seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear (speaking of the second coming), then shall ye also appear with him in glory (referring to the physical resurrection which is future tense).”

There are two distinct resurrections outlined in this reading, the first being spiritual and the second being physical. The initial resurrection of necessity sees a spiritual change, whereas, the second resurrection of necessity requires a physical change. Interestingly, the Greek word sunegeiro is again used here to describe the spiritual resurrection of the penitent sinner through union with Christ. No one could surely dismiss the current reality of the resurrection outlined at the beginning of the above passage. Moreover, those that have experienced the aforementioned resurrection are then instructed to “seek” and “set their affection” upon “those things which are above” – spiritual actions that are to be performed in this scene of time. The key to experiencing the reality of this current resurrected life is found in the concluding part of the reading that our earthly life is “hid with Christ in God.”

Ephesians 2:1-6 also says, “you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, ‘hath quickened us together’ [Gr. suzoopoieo] with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath ‘raised us up together’ [Gr. sunegeiro] and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

The same two Greek words found in Colossians 2:10-14 are also used in this reading to describe the spiritual resurrection. Again, the word rendered “quickened” here in Ephesians 2 is the Greek word suzoopoieo, which indicates a uniting to Christ in mystical union by means of being spiritually revitalized and made alive. The Greek word sunegeiro carries the meaning of union with Christ through resurrection. It is also in the aorist active demonstrating that it relates to the present. All sane theologians know that is not therefore not talking about physical resurrection.

The quickening of the spiritually dead life results in a consequential spiritual resurrection. Resurrection cannot plainly occur unless God in His providence reaches down in supernatural quickening power and imputes spiritual life into a spiritually dead man.

 

[WPM]

One hour has a specific meaning.

Now, what is the SPECIFIC meaning of 1000 years per Rev 20?

It must be specific, not willy nilly random as you posted.

That is duplicity. One rule for one (when it suits) and one rule for another (when it suits). You make it up as you go. That is Premil. It has no consistent hermeneutics. That is why many of us have abandoned it.

 

[Truther]

That is duplicity. One rule for one (when it suits) and one rule for another (when it suits). You make it up as you go. That is Premil. It has no consistent hermeneutics. That is why many of us have abandoned it.

I see, so Rev 20 is open ended meanings to you.

Non binary etc?

 

[Truther]

I think the problem here is preterists etc, think signs are the equivalent of metaphors.

They should all have their driver's licences taken away.

 

[WPM]

I see, so Rev 20 is open ended meanings to you.

Non binary etc?

It is a figurative term. A thousand years is simply a simile for a long period of time. Revelation is full of figurative language. Amils acknowledge the symbolic setting and let other clear and explicit Scripture explain it. Premils explain away the clear and explicit by their faulty understanding of Revelation 20.

 

[WPM]

I think the problem here is preterists etc, think signs are the equivalent of metaphors.

They should all have their driver's licences taken away.

We are Amils. Most of us are not Preterists. Amils are a mixture of Historists, Idealists and Partial Preterists.

 

[Truther]

It is a figurative term. A thousand years is simply a simile for a long period of time. Revelation is full of figurative language. Amils acknowledge the symbolic setting and let other clear and explicit Scripture explain it. Premils explain away the clear and explicit by their faulty understanding of Revelation 20.

So, 1000 years in Rev 20 has no specific meaning?

Does anything else in the chapter have no specific meaning?

Is the lake of fire the fake fire too?

 

[Truther]

We are Amils. Most of us are not Preterists. Amils are a mixture of Historists, Idealists and Partial Preterists.

Egad!

Gadzooks!

What a mix!

 

[WPM]

So, 1000 years in Rev 20 has no specific meaning?

Does anything else in the chapter have no specific meaning?

Is the lake of fire the fake fire too?

No one knows the length of the intra-Advent period. That is why a symbolic number is used to describe it. "A thousand" represents a long period of time, whereas "one hour" represents a short period of time near the end, that correlates with Satan's little season. Both are symbolic.

 

[Truther]

No one knows the length of the intra-Advent period. That is why a symbolic number is used to describe to it. "A thousand" represents a long period of time, whereas "one hour" represents a short period of time near the end, that correlates with Satan's little season. Both are symbolic.

I guess I am naive enough to believe it as it says a thousand or the thousand years 6 times in 6 verses as a/the thousand years.

I must lack the creative mind, such as Amil's have.

 

[WPM]

Egad!

Gadzooks!

What a mix!

Nothing compared to the Premil camp. It is a complete and utter mixture of opposing view. What is more, all the Cults buy into Premil.

 

[WPM]

So, 1000 years in Rev 20 has no specific meaning?

Does anything else in the chapter have no specific meaning?

Is the lake of fire the fake fire too?

1. Do you believe Satan and his minions are physical beings?
2. Is the dragon in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical dragon?
3. Is the serpent in Revelation 20:2 a literal physical serpent?
4. Is the key mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal door key?
5. Is the chain mentioned in Revelation 20:1 a literal metal chain?
6. Is the prison mentioned in Revelation 20:7 a literal brick prison?
7. Do you believe demons need to be detained in a literal physical prison with literal metal chains in order to be restrained?
8. Can a prisoner in a prison have great wrath while in chains?
9. Does imprisonment mean immobility?
10. Does it mean a prisoner cannot do harm?
11. Can a dog on a chain walk or roam about?
12. Can a prisoner in a prison walk or roam about?
13. Does a prisoner have the ability to kill, steal, destroy, rape and embezzle in prison?