22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine
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Spiritual Israelite
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You are adding to the text. You should never do that with scripture. It reveals your doctrinal bias. It is saying that Christ Himself is the firstfruits. Read 1 Cor 15:20 where it says specifically that Christ Himself is the firstfruits.
Okay good, we get a new body.
Now, do we eat of the tree of life in our new bodies or not?
Spiritual Israelite
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Actual tree of life in heaven? I don't believe there is a literal tree of life in heaven. But, that's another story and we don't need to waste time talking about that. I believe the main thing you're getting at here is whether or not we will be able to do physical things like eat when we have our new bodies. My answer to that question is yes. Jesus was able to eat after He was resurrected, so that's all the evidence we need right there. We too will be able to eat after we have our new bodies.
No, here are the firstfruits too...
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Is Christ alone the firstfruits or us with him?
No, let's talk about that.
Jesus said the tree of life is edible and in heaven.
You are calling Jesus a liar.
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Spiritual Israelite
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You are trying to relate verses that are not related. James 1:18 is talking about people who are ALIVE and considered to be "firstfruits of his creatures".
Contrast that with this verse:
1 Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
This verse is talking about believers who are physically/bodily ASLEEP/DEAD. So, James 1:18 has a completely different context. And this verse is saying that Christ Himself is the firstfruits and that He is the firstfruits "of those who have fallen asleep". What that means is that He was the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality and because He did that, the dead who belong to Him will rise unto bodily immortality as well at His second coming.
Preterists teach this is what Jesus really meant....
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the FICTITIOUS tree of life, which is in the midst of the FICTICIOUS paradise of God.
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the FICTITIOUS tree of life, which is in the midst of the FICTICIOUS paradise of God.
Preterists teach this is what Jesus really meant....
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the FICTITIOUS tree of life, which is in the midst of the FICTICIOUS paradise of God.
7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the FICTITIOUS tree of life, which is in the midst of the FICTICIOUS paradise of God.
Spiritual Israelite
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There's no symbolism at all in the book of Revelation, right? So, it's not possible that He was speaking in a symbolic sense there? Do you believe He literally stood among seven literal golden lampstands (candlesticks) as well?
Revelation 1:12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.
Look, it's clear we're not going to agree on this, but let me say again that I do believe we will be able to do physical things like eat when we have our new bodies. So, let's just leave it at that and not spend time arguing about whether this verse is meant to be taken literally or not.
Are we also considered the firstfruits here per James 2?
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What is the tree of life in Rev 2 that Jesus said we would eat of, symbolic of?
Truth7t7
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- Jan 2, 2014
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I Disagree, All will be raised on the last day at the second coming, there won't be a millennial kingdom on this earth, it's a man made fairy tale
Spiritual Israelite
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Of course He is one person, but it's plural because His resurrection unto bodily immortality made it so that all the dead who belong to Him can one day be resurrected unto bodily immortality as well. It very specifically says that Christ is the firstfruits of those who have fallen sleep (physically died). It doesn't say "those who have physcally died" are the firstfruits.
So, don't get hung up on the singular or plural of that word. Just accept what Paul said, which is that Jesus Himself is the firstfruits of those who have died and belong to Him. It's just like saying what it says here, which is that He was the first to rise from the dead:
Acts 26:23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
Of course, we know that Lazarus and a few others were resurrected before Jesus, so what does this mean? It means that He was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality. No one else has been yet. Next in order are those who belong to Him at His second coming. That's it. Paul doesn't mention any other dead being resurrected unto bodily immortality at any other time.
Spiritual Israelite
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I'm not a preterist, but I know that no preterist teaches that. You are arguing with a straw man here. Stop wasting your time doing that.
Spiritual Israelite
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I believe eating from the tree of life symbolizes enjoying the eternal life that we will have with God in the new heavens and on the new earth forever. But, if you want to think it's talking about literally eating from a literal tree, go for it. As I said more than once already, I do believe we will be able to eat and do physical things with our changed bodies (rather than just being spirits or anything like that), so we do agree on that.
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