22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Truther]

The First Resurrection, On The Last Day Explained?​

There are (Two) resurrections on the (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

This is 1000 years before the last day....

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, there are 2 parts...

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits(THE CHURCH); afterward they that are Christ's at his coming(THE BEHEADED TRIB SAINTS).

I believe you are badly misinterpreting this verse. In no way, shape or form is that saying there are two parts to the first resurrection.

The first thing you're getting wrong is interpreting "Christ the firstfruits" as the church. That is not at all what it means. You're not looking at the context. Please read starting with verse 20.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

When you read verse 20 here you should be able to see that it's saying Christ Himself is the firstfruits and "those who have fallen asleep" are part of the church (the dead in Christ). It is because of His resurrection, which was the first resurrection unto bodily immortality, that those who are dead and belong to Him will also be resurrected unto bodily immortality at His second coming. The order Paul gives here is Christ's resurrection first and next in order is the mass bodily resurrection of the dead who belong to Him at His second coming.

 

[Truther]

Where in that text does it say anything about the souls John saw being "united with a new physical body"? Read verse 6 there. At what point is it the case that the second death has no power over someone? Not until they are bodily resurrected? Or some time before that? The answer to the first question tells us the timing of people having part in the first resurrection.

And what about other scripture which teaches that Jesus's bodily resurrection was the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, Col 1:18, 1 Cor 15:20, Rev 1:5)? Should that not be taken into account when determining what it means to have part in the first resurrection? I certainly believe so.

How are we to eat of the tree of life as Jesus said in Rev 2 and found in Rev 22 if we have no new body?...


7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.,,,

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations....

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How are we to eat of the tree of life as Jesus said in Rev 2 and found in Rev 22 if we have no new body?...


7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.,,,

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations....

Can you please address what I said first before asking these questions? I will respond to this once you actually address what I said in my post first.

 

[Truther]

This is what you said in response to this:


How exactly does what you said have anything to do with what I had said?

I was commenting on your idea that only Jesus gets a new body and not us.

Which is wrong.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I was commenting on your idea that only Jesus gets a new body and not us.

Which is wrong.

I did not say that. Please take more time to read what I actually say so that you don't misrepresent what I said.

 

[Truther]

I believe you are badly misinterpreting this verse. In no way, shape or form is that saying there are two parts to the first resurrection.

The first thing you're getting wrong is interpreting "Christ the firstfruits" as the church. That is not at all what it means. You're not looking at the context. Please read starting with verse 20.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

When you read verse 20 here you should be able to see that it's saying Christ Himself is the firstfruits and "those who have fallen asleep" are part of the church (the dead in Christ). It is because of His resurrection, which was the first resurrection unto bodily immortality, that those who are dead and belong to Him will also be resurrected unto bodily immortality at His second coming. The order Paul gives here is Christ's resurrection first and next in order is the mass bodily resurrection of the dead who belong to Him at His second coming.

Is this one group or 2?...


23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

[Truther]

Can you please address what I said first before asking these questions? I will respond to this once you actually address what I said in my post first.

You said we don't get new bodies, correct?

If so, how do we eat from the tree of life as Jesus promised?

 

[Truther]

I did not say that. Please take more time to read what I actually say so that you don't misrepresent what I said.

Do we get a new physical body or are we some kind of "heavenly aura" thing after being resurrected?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Is this one group or 2?...


23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Did you even read my post? If you did, you wouldn't ask me this question because you would already know my answer based on what I already said. Can you please address what I said?

 

[Truther]

Did you even read my post? If you did, you wouldn't ask me this question because you would already know my answer based on what I already said. Can you please address what I said?

I read this....

The first bodily resurrection unto bodily immortality was Jesus Christ's bodily resurrection. We don't have part in His resurrection bodily, we have part in it spiritually,

 

[Truther]

We are resurrected "spirits"?

What will we be eating?

Of the spirit tree of life?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do we get a new physical body or are we some kind of "heavenly aura" thing after being resurrected?

Here is how Paul describes it:

1 Corinthians 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

So, what Paul indicated here is that the body we currently have is "perishable", "sown in dishonor", "sown in weakness", "a natural body" and "earthly". And he indicated that the body we will have in the future after being changed will be "imperishable", "raised in glory", "raised in power", "a spiritual body" and "heavenly". So, what that will be like exactly, I don't know yet. Jesus was able to physically touch and eat things, so I believe our new bodies will have a physical capability. But, it will have more capabilities that we don't have now that we can't even fathom right now. For example, after His resurrection, Jesus was able to just suddenly appear before the disciples inside a home even though the doors were locked. So, our bodies will clearly not have the same physical limitations that we have now.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, there are 2 parts...

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits(THE CHURCH); afterward they that are Christ's at his coming(THE BEHEADED TRIB SAINTS).

I Disagree, as you have been clearly shown in post #6571 above, all that are in the Graves shall hear his voice and come forth, this takes place at the second coming on the last day

Your suggestions that there are two future times in resurrection is false, there is one that takes place at the second coming (The End)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I read this....

The first bodily resurrection unto bodily immortality was Jesus Christ's bodily resurrection. We don't have part in His resurrection bodily, we have part in it spiritually,

Do you have an issue with that statement? Is that not exactly what passages like the following indicate:

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

By saying that, I'm not implying that the dead in Christ won't be bodily resurrected as well. Of course they will be (and it will include us if we die before He returns). But, being bodily resurrected is not a case of having part in Christ's resurrection. Being spiritually or figuratively "buried with him" and made "alive with Christ" spiritually is the way in which we have part in His resurrection.

 

[Truther]

Here is how Paul describes it:

1 Corinthians 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

So, what Paul indicated here is that the body we currently have is "perishable", "sown in dishonor", "sown in weakness", "a natural body" and "earthly". And he indicated that the body we will have in the future after being changed will be "imperishable", "raised in glory", "raised in power", "a spiritual body" and "heavenly". So, what that will be like exactly, I don't know yet. Jesus was able to physically touch and eat things, so I believe our new bodies will have a physical capability. But, it will have more capabilities that we don't have now that we can't even fathom right now. For example, after His resurrection, Jesus was able to just suddenly appear before the disciples inside a home even though the doors were locked. So, our bodies will clearly not have the same physical limitations that we have now.

Now, is the spiritual BODY a BODY or a spirit?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We are resurrected "spirits"?

What will we be eating?

Of the spirit tree of life?

Who are you talking to? Anyone in particular? What is the context of your questions?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Now, is the spiritual BODY a BODY or a spirit?

LOL. It says it is "a spiritual BODY", so it's a BODY. And it will be spiritual rather than natural, as Paul indicated. A natural body is perishable/mortal but a spiritual body is imperishable/immortal. Why would you ask me this when I gave no indication whatsoever that I was saying the spiritual body we will have is a spirit?

 

[Truther]

I Disagree, as you have been clearly shown in post #6571 above, all that are in the Graves shall hear his voice and come forth, this takes place at the second coming on the last day

Your suggestions that there are two future times in resurrection is false, there is one that takes place at the second coming (The End)

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits(THE CHURCH); afterward they that are Christ's at his coming(THE BEHEADED TRIB SAINTS).

"Afterward they" is the same group as "Christ the firstfruits"?

Something like this?...

But every man in his own order, Christ the firstfruits WHICH ARE Christ's at his coming?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You said we don't get new bodies, correct?

No, I didn't say that at all. Please read what I'm saying more carefully. Are you a speed reader or something? Take your time so you stop constantly misreading what I'm saying.