23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

[WPM]

Another raft of nasty accusations and your inability to face the facts of history. Of which most IS in the Bible!

It is the truth.

Where in the Epistle of Barnabas teaches this 7000 years theory? Where is your evidence?

 

[WPM]

Hosea 6:2 After 2 days the Lord will revive us and on the third day, He will raise us to live in His Presence.
The context is about the Return of the Lord, [Jesus] and His Millennium reign, when His people will live in His Presence.

If you like to think that Hosea's Prophecy is not about the 2000 year Church age and then the Millennium, please explain to us what Hosea meant. Any attempt by you to spiritualize it, or to fit it into the past, will be questioned.

Hosea 6:1-3: “Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.”

There is no reason to interpret these 3 days as anything other than 3 literal days. This again shows that it is Premils that are constantly spiritualizing clear literal Scripture away in order to sustain Premil. Anyway, Jesus literally fulfilled Hosea 6:2. It has already happened. Jesus said he would fulfil this, and He did. Matt 12:40 reads: "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

There is no millennium mention or inferred in this passage. You have to force it into the text. It doesn't in any way say on the 3,000th day but the 3rd day, this is symbolism/spiritualization gone crazy. Such extremities are required to make Premil fit. The reality is it is referring to Christ's glorious resurrection.

Not so. He is describing the resurrection of Christ. There is no mention of thousands. You force that into the text to support your beliefs. What is more. We are already in the 3rd thousand now, demolishing your future millennium theory.

Jesus said in Luke 24:46-49: “Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”

1 Cor 15:3-4: "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."

Where? It is not mentioned anywhere else in Holy Writ, apart from the highly symbolic book of Revelation, and even then, only in the 3rd chapter before the end of the sacred text. I wish Premils quoted the full text of the Scripture that they mention to support their position. The text you mentioned make no mention of a future thousand years. No text seems safe with Premil eisegesis. Where is there any mention of an alleged future millennium in Hosea 6:2 or Luke 13:32?

Hosea 6:1-3 affirms: “Come, and let us (true Israel) return unto the LORD (Jesus): for he (Jesus) hath torn, and he (Jesus) will heal us (true Israel); he (Jesus) hath smitten, and he (Jesus) will bind us (true Israel) up. After two days will he (Jesus) revive us (true Israel): in the third day he (Jesus) will raise us (true Israel) up, and we (true Israel) shall live in his (Jesus) sight. Then shall we (true Israel) know, if we (true Israel) follow on to know the LORD (Jesus): his (Jesus) going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Jesus) shall come unto us (true Israel) as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.”

This is talking about 2,000 years ago, and Christ's defeat of the grave, not some alleged future sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted earthly millennial kingdom.

Luke 13: 32 records: "And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected."

This is talking about 2,000 years ago, and Christ's defeat of the grave, not some alleged future sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted earthly millennial kingdom.

 

[Jay Ross]

Another raft of nasty accusations and your inability to face the facts of history. Of which most IS in the Bible!

Hosea 6:2 After 2 days the Lord will revive us and on the third day, He will raise us to live in His Presence.
The context is about the Return of the Lord, [Jesus] and His Millennium reign, when His people will live in His Presence.

If you like to think that Hosea's Prophecy is not about the 2000 year Church age and then the Millennium, please explain to us what Hosea meant. Any attempt by you to spiritualize it, or to fit it into the past, will be questioned.

Actually, the Hosea 6:2 has nothing to do with the claimed 2,000-year Chruch Age, but everything to do with the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers during the first and second ages of their existence upon their children and the children's children during the third and fourth ages of their existence and then their redemption in the fifth age of their existence.

God will remember the Israelites once more after the judgement of the Gentile Kings of the earth for their involvement in the Little Horns activities of trampling God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts over the past nearly 2,300 years. Paul in Romans 9:25-26 tells us that after, with respect to time, the time of the Gentiles is completed in this prophecy, all of Israel will be saved. God will gather the Israelites to Himself and plant them in the fertile fields prepared by Christ and will teach them about the religion based on Christ being the Son of God, where they are found scattered throughout the whole earth living besides the rivers in the valleys of the land.

God prophesied in Genesis 15:16 that in the 4th age of the existence of Abraham's descendants, that they would return to the Land of Canaan in their own strength, and that the iniquities of the Amorite in 1948 would not be completed at that time.

Jesus referenced the 1948 return of Israel to the land of Canaan in His Mt Olivet discourse as the once dead fig tree beginning to bud leaves once more and that within one season the summer harvest season would comment. This prophecy still has 20-25 years to run and the assembling of the Kings of the earth at the place called Armageddon will mark the beginning of the Seventh Age.

Then as the Israelites begin embracing the refurbished Kingdom of Priest, a Holy Nation and God's Possession Among the Nations Covenant they will begin fulfilling the part of the Abrahamic Covenant where they will become a blessing to all of the peoples of the earth.

But you, Keraz, preach a replacement theology, which is contrary to God's word.

Need I say any more.

 

[Keraz]

Not so. He is describing the resurrection of Christ. There is no mention of thousands. You force that into the text to support your beliefs. What is more. We are already in the 3rd thousand now, demolishing your future millennium theory.

So, contrary to plain scripture, you believe Jesus was in the tomb for only 2 days? And that 2 days was when He revived His people?
Then He raised us to live in His Presence?
For those with discernment; we are told that one day to God in heaven; is equal to a thousand years earth time. Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8

The third 2000 year period; from Jesus Ascencion in 30 AD, to His Return, is NOT completed yet. I have to think you are incompetent as well as confused.
I contend that your beliefs are wrong and constitute gross violations to scripture.

But you, Keraz, preach a replacement theology, which is contrary to God's word.

Just love to trot that accusation out, don't you?
NOBODY is 'replaced', true Israelites were always His people by faith. Your idea that Jewish Israel has an inside track for their redemption, is false and is never Prophesied to happen. Zechariah 12:11-14 refers to the remnant of Judah.

 

[Jay Ross]

So, contrary to plain scripture, you believe Jesus was in the tomb for only 2 days? And that 2 days was when He revived His people?
Then He raised us to live in His Presence?
For those with discernment, we are told that one day to God in heaven; is equal to a thousand years earth time. Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8

The third 2000-year period; from Jesus Ascencion in 30 AD, to His Return, is NOT completed yet. I have to think you are incompetent as well as confused.
I contend that your beliefs are wrong and constitute gross violations to scripture.

Keraz, in this statement, you accuse WPM of being incompetent as well as being confused. You accuse him of having wrong beliefs that constitute gross violations to scripture. Yet you claim that Jesus' return is in our near future which cannot be scripturally supported.

Just love to trot that accusation out, don't you?
NOBODY is 'replaced', true Israelites were always His people by faith. Your idea that Jewish Israel has an inside track for their redemption, is false and is never Prophesied to happen. Zechariah 12:11-14 refers to the remnant of Judah.

In your response to what I posted you make another claim that is not supported by scripture. You present your understanding of how the end times will play out with no real scriptural basis for what you claim.

Good day and Goodbye. You just keep going around in circles with your false prophetic claims. It is a waste of time trying to convince you of the falsehoods of your posts.

 

[WPM]

So, contrary to plain scripture, you believe Jesus was in the tomb for only 2 days? And that 2 days was when He revived His people?
Then He raised us to live in His Presence?
For those with discernment; we are told that one day to God in heaven; is equal to a thousand years earth time. Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8

The third 2000 year period; from Jesus Ascencion in 30 AD, to His Return, is NOT completed yet. I have to think you are incompetent as well as confused.
I contend that your beliefs are wrong and constitute gross violations to scripture.

Read the text carefully please. It does not say (as you allege) that "Jesus was in the tomb for only 2 days, And that 2 days was when He revived His people." That is your own interpretation. It says: "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up." Obviously, after 2 days here is the 3rd day. It actually says that in the text so that we would not misinterpret it.

Whatever way we look at, it is you imposing your own mistaken theology on the text in order to justify an extra-biblical view-point.

Contrary to what you claim, you have nothing in Scripture, and nothing in the Epistle of Barnabas, to support your erroneous 7000 years theory; nothing apart from your own opinions. That is the foundation of your speculations. That is a super sandy foundation.

 

[Keraz]

Read the text carefully please. It does not say (as you allege) that "Jesus was in the tomb for only 2 days, And that 2 days was when He revived His people." That is your own interpretation. It says: "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up." Obviously, after 2 days here is the 3rd day. It actually says that in the text so that we would not misinterpret it.

OK, but that Prophecy in Hosea 6:2, simply does not fit with the death and resurrection of Jesus, in the first Century.
It is a Prophecy of the 2000 years of this Church age, which is a historical fact; almost complete, and then the thousand year Millennium, as Revelation 20 tells us.

In the timeline I presented, I used 47 scriptures; ones that give us the time periods of the Patriarchs and the Kings of Israel and Judah.
Why should God have given us that information, if it was just inconsequential?
No; as I show, those given times DO add to an important conclusion. That is: the 7000 year decreed time for mankind.

 

[Keraz]

It is a waste of time trying to convince you of the falsehoods of your posts.

That is, of course; because I present the truth of the Prophetic Word.
That those truth conflict with your beliefs, is your problem.

 

[Jay Ross]

That is, of course; because I present the truth of the Prophetic Word.
That those truth conflict with your beliefs, is your problem.

It is not really a problem for me. Your posts make me feel very sad that you have become so delusional in your understanding of God's prophetic word that you believe that you know the truth of the matter.

 

[WPM]

OK, but that Prophecy in Hosea 6:2, simply does not fit with the death and resurrection of Jesus, in the first Century.
It is a Prophecy of the 2000 years of this Church age, which is a historical fact; almost complete, and then the thousand year Millennium, as Revelation 20 tells us.

In the timeline I presented, I used 47 scriptures; ones that give us the time periods of the Patriarchs and the Kings of Israel and Judah.
Why should God have given us that information, if it was just inconsequential?
No; as I show, those given times DO add to an important conclusion. That is: the 7000 year decreed time for mankind.

You have presented nothing to support your belief that this 7000 years theory is biblical. You even admitted that it was extra-biblical. That is because it is not in the Book.

 

[Timtofly]

Read the text carefully please. It does not say (as you allege) that "Jesus was in the tomb for only 2 days, And that 2 days was when He revived His people." That is your own interpretation. It says: "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up." Obviously, after 2 days here is the 3rd day. It actually says that in the text so that we would not misinterpret it.

So it only lasted for 72 hours and then stopped and all was over. Israel has been totally whole and righteous since that 72nd hour? What reality is that in?

 

[Keraz]

You have presented nothing to support your belief that this 7000 years theory is biblical. You even admitted that it was extra-biblical. That is because it is not in the Book.

I admitted no such thing. The exact tranches of the 2000 year periods ARE in the Bible, as the given time periods of the Patriarchs and Kings, diaspora, etc.
Your rejection of those carefully Written time periods, is your bad mistake, it says to God that you discount His Word and the AMill belief disallows His promised reward to Jesus. Psalms 2:7-9

 

[Truth7t7]

Actually, the Hosea 6:2 has nothing to do with the claimed 2,000-year Chruch Age, but everything to do with the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers during the first and second ages of their existence upon their children and the children's children during the third and fourth ages of their existence and then their redemption in the fifth age of their existence.

God will remember the Israelites once more after the judgement of the Gentile Kings of the earth for their involvement in the Little Horns activities of trampling God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts over the past nearly 2,300 years. Paul in Romans 9:25-26 tells us that after, with respect to time, the time of the Gentiles is completed in this prophecy, all of Israel will be saved. God will gather the Israelites to Himself and plant them in the fertile fields prepared by Christ and will teach them about the religion based on Christ being the Son of God, where they are found scattered throughout the whole earth living besides the rivers in the valleys of the land.

God prophesied in Genesis 15:16 that in the 4th age of the existence of Abraham's descendants, that they would return to the Land of Canaan in their own strength, and that the iniquities of the Amorite in 1948 would not be completed at that time.

Jesus referenced the 1948 return of Israel to the land of Canaan in His Mt Olivet discourse as the once dead fig tree beginning to bud leaves once more and that within one season the summer harvest season would comment. This prophecy still has 20-25 years to run and the assembling of the Kings of the earth at the place called Armageddon will mark the beginning of the Seventh Age.

Then as the Israelites begin embracing the refurbished Kingdom of Priest, a Holy Nation and God's Possession Among the Nations Covenant they will begin fulfilling the part of the Abrahamic Covenant where they will become a blessing to all of the peoples of the earth.

But you, Keraz, preach a replacement theology, which is contrary to God's word.

Need I say any more.

Whole bunch of opinion not found in scripture

 

[WPM]

I admitted no such thing. The exact tranches of the 2000 year periods ARE in the Bible, as the given time periods of the Patriarchs and Kings, diaspora, etc.
Your rejection of those carefully Written time periods, is your bad mistake, it says to God that you discount His Word and the AMill belief disallows His promised reward to Jesus. Psalms 2:7-9

Not true. He admitted:

"The 7000 years that God has decreed for mankind, is not specifically stated in the Bible. It is in the Epistle of Barnabas and by some of the early Church fathers."

Of course this was not true either. You were not able to support this claim re Barnabas. The fact is: it is an illusion in your mind. It is not in the Bible.

 

[Keraz]

Gods 7000 year Plan for mankind, IS found in the Bible, I just said it isn't specifically stated.
It requires discernment, mathematical competence and some knowledge of History. Things you do not seem to have.

Many people now and in the past do and have believed this Plan of God. It is logical and most probable.
You reject it because you have chosen to believe the incredible idea that we are in the Millennium now. This belief is so foolish and divorced from reality, that adherents to it need counselling.

 

[WPM]

Gods 7000 year Plan for mankind, IS found in the Bible, I just said it isn't specifically stated.
It requires discernment, mathematical competence and some knowledge of History. Things you do not seem to have.

Many people now and in the past do and have believed this Plan of God. It is logical and most probable.
You reject it because you have chosen to believe the incredible idea that we are in the Millennium now. This belief is so foolish and divorced from reality, that adherents to it need counselling.

No. You twist the Bible to say what you believe. The 6000 years theory the ECFs believed in was due to end in 500AD. Do you believe that? Premils keep moving the goal-posts to support their error. Your dating has been refuted by many. It is wrong and unobjective.

 

[Jay Ross]

Whole bunch of opinion not found in scripture

Really, are you sure?

QUOTE="Jay Ross, post: 1518997, member: 4077" - post #543 above.

Actually, the Hosea 6:2 has nothing to do with the claimed 2,000-year Chruch Age, but everything to do with the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers during the first and second ages of their existence upon their children and the children's children during the third and fourth ages of their existence and then their redemption in the fifth age of their existence. (Exodus 20:4-6)​

​

God will remember the Israelites once more after the judgement of the Gentile Kings of the earth for their involvement in the Little Horns activities of trampling God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts over the past nearly 2,300 years. (Isaiah 24:21-22, Rev 16:14-16, Rev 12:7-9, 20:1-3) Paul in Romans 9:25-26 tells us that after, with respect to time, the time of the Gentiles is completed in this prophecy, all of Israel will be saved. God will gather the Israelites to Himself and plant them in the fertile fields prepared by Christ and will teach them about the religion based on Christ being the Son of God, where they are found scattered throughout the whole earth living besides the rivers in the valleys of the land. (Ezekiel 34:11-14)​

​

God prophesied in Genesis 15:16 that in the 4th age of the existence of Abraham's descendants, that they would return to the Land of Canaan in their own strength, and that the iniquities of the Amorite in 1948 would not be completed at that time.​

​

Jesus referenced the 1948 return of Israel to the land of Canaan in His Mt Olivet discourse as the once dead fig tree beginning to bud leaves once more and that within one season the summer harvest season would comment. (Matthew 24:32) This prophecy still has 20-25 years to run and the assembling of the Kings of the earth at the place called Armageddon will mark the beginning of the Seventh Age.​

​

Then as the Israelites begin embracing the refurbished Kingdom of Priest, a Holy Nation and God's Possession Among the Nations Covenant they will begin fulfilling the part of the Abrahamic Covenant where they will become a blessing to all of the peoples of the earth. (Jeremial 31:31ff)​

End of Quote

And I thought that you were a student of the Scriptures. It seems that I am wrong.

What I had posted was based on all of the Scriptural references inserted in Bold Red text in the quote of my previous post with the Scripture references already included made bold.

Now if my interpretation of the scriptures referenced is wrong, then you should have provided your evidence as to why they were wrong. All you have done is given your opinion without any supporting evidence as to why it could be true.

Perhaps you need more time in the scriptures to be able to see what is plainly written in them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Paul in Romans 9:25-26 tells us that after, with respect to time, the time of the Gentiles is completed in this prophecy, all of Israel will be saved.

Please define "Israel" above, who, what, where?

 

[Jay Ross]

Please define "Israel" above, who, what, where?

I referenced the scripture for you above, but here it is, take your argument up with Paul, because all I did was quote what he had written.

Romans 11:25-27: - 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:​

​

“The Deliverer will come from Zion;​

He will remove godlessness from Jacob.​

27 And this is My covenant with them​

when I take away their sins.”​

​

​

 

[WPM]

I referenced the scripture for you above, but here it is, take your argument up with Paul, because all I did was quote what he had written.

Romans 11:25-27: - 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:​

​

“The Deliverer will come from Zion;​

He will remove godlessness from Jacob.​

27 And this is My covenant with them​

when I take away their sins.”​

​

​

He was asking for your opinion of that. It looks like you are avoiding that.